I really hope this wasn't pointed at me.
Full Circle
- Thread starter Hannibal
- Start date
I really hope this wasn't pointed at me.
Actually you are pretty close to right except for the part about Peter David, because Pocket Books like a lot of other publishers believe that no one reads Science Fiction except fifteen year old boys. Problem is those fifteen year old boys they are so fond of don't read novels, they play video games now.
Wrong, go back and look. I posted this link to the book's Amazon page complete with cover art and sample pages.
Brit
You're asking for a scenario that never existed, as far as I am aware, outside of Homecoming and The Farther Shore, primarily because of the fact that Star Trek Nemesis created a scenario whereby Janeway could not remain in the role she had always occupied. Leaving Janeway to occupy a prominent role in the post-"Endgame" Voyager fiction would have required either ignoring her canonical promotion to Admiral, or a continued manufacturing of scenarios in which she could insert herself; the former option isn't actually an option, and I have a hard time envisioning the latter option being sustainable for long without becoming stale, repetitive, and/ or contrived.
Because at the end of the day, the novels have to follow the lead of the live action material.
And I don't have a problem imagining that scenario at all, I can think of all kinds of plots, and you know her rank has nothing to do with this argument. Voyager is the people not the space ship. Maybe that's why you have such a hard time envisioning stories about her.
Brit
Because at the end of the day, the novels have to follow the lead of the live action material.
By and large, yes. I can only think of two occasions in which the Trek Lit has deliberately contradicted the canon: Trip's death and Riker's replacement as the Enterprise's XO in the wake of Nemesis.
Because at the end of the day, the novels have to follow the lead of the live action material.
By and large, yes. I can only think of two occasions in which the Trek Lit has deliberately contradicted the canon: Trip's death and Riker's replacement as the Enterprise's XO in the wake of Nemesis.
I don't think Riker's replacement counts, as those scenes weren't part of the actual film that was released. Wish they'd left Trip dead as well.
I used to buy them. I don't now.
I'm sure Pocket did absolutely no research and had no clue where their audience interests lie. Peter David woke up one day and said I'm gonna kill Janeway and Pocket said "cool"!
I honestly think they didn't do their research on this one. Hard to say for sure though since the editor who made the call has since been fired...
I'm sure Pocket did absolutely no research and had no clue where their audience interests lie. Peter David woke up one day and said I'm gonna kill Janeway and Pocket said "cool"!
I honestly think they didn't do their research on this one. Hard to say for sure though since the editor who made the call has since been fired...
Multiple editors have been fired or left since these novels were given a go.
I'm sure Pocket did absolutely no research and had no clue where their audience interests lie. Peter David woke up one day and said I'm gonna kill Janeway and Pocket said "cool"!
I honestly think they didn't do their research on this one. Hard to say for sure though since the editor who made the call has since been fired...
Multiple editors have been fired or left since these novels were given a go.
Interesting. I only knew about Margaret Clarke but then I haven't been following the doings at Pocket since "Full Circle" came out.
You're honestly going to sit here and tell me that situations such as the one that facilitated Janeway's involvement in the events of Spirit Walk and the early part(s) of Full Circle wouldn't have become repetitive, stale, and contrived after a few novels?
First: You shouldn't take quoted sentences out of their context.
Second: Everybody should be able to judge himself, if he fits into any category or not.
Brit is right.
Every ST series has characteristics which make it unique.
So to every series belong the original main characters and the ship as a unit.
In Unworthy there K. Beyer even shows how much an Admiral is needed. Who else than an Admiral can command a fleet of ships led by captains?
So I don't see any conflict between a living Admiral Janeway besides a Captain Chakotay on Voyager.
The character Eden seems to be "simpler", but don't forget, she is only two dimensional - a pure "paper character" and she is pretty "young" too!
KJ was formed by a lot of writers, the producers, the directors etc. and last but not least by the actress herself. She became four dimensional (Don't forget the time as the forth dimension!) And so the character accompanies us for more than 15 years now.
If any writer would consider her for too "shizophrenic" he would fix that in his book anyway. So I'm truly not afraid of that.
The same I'm not afraid that stories with Admiral KJ might become repetitive, stale, and contrived after a few novels. It didn't happen with Picard being the captain for even 10 years longer than Janeway. In the end "Admiral" it is only a title. (I don't mention Admiral Kirk and his adventures here...) The action and suspense of a story is depending on the writer's ideas, not on the rank of any person in the story.
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Absolutely, all it takes is a decent writer who is interested in the characters, and an Editor with a little imagination. Voyager books don't have to be "Spirit Walk." The fault lies in the people that produce the novels not in the characters.
Brit
Kathryn J, one of the most significant plot points in Full Circle is Janeway's resistance to the ideas behind Project Full Circle, so it is doubtful that, had you, Brit, and others gotten your way, the post-finale Voyager novels would have escalated beyond scenarios such as those described in Spirit Walk and the early part(s) of Full Circle (at least between the events of Endgame and Destiny) , which would have meant that the writers would have been continually having to come up with reasons for her to rejoin her old crew, which I maintain would have gotten stale, repetitive, and contrived very quickly.
Exactly. I'm going to spoil to books for you because it's clear you're never going to read them:
Starfleet wants to send Voyager and her crew back to the DQ and Janeway says "No" and keeps saying no and she's powerful enough withing SF Command to be able to stop the mission proceeding. The reason she went the the cube in BD is revealed to be because she needed to show SF there was no justifiable reason to send Voyager back to the DQ, and unfortunately got killed.
Janeway died protecting her crew. What a bitch.
Janeway could never be the Admiral because:
The admiral turns out to be a member of species 8472.
Janeway didn't want Voyager back in the DQ.
Starfleet wants to send Voyager and her crew back to the DQ and Janeway says "No" and keeps saying no and she's powerful enough withing SF Command to be able to stop the mission proceeding. The reason she went the the cube in BD is revealed to be because she needed to show SF there was no justifiable reason to send Voyager back to the DQ, and unfortunately got killed.
Janeway died protecting her crew. What a bitch.
Janeway could never be the Admiral because:
The admiral turns out to be a member of species 8472.
Janeway didn't want Voyager back in the DQ.
Plus, I don't remember Eden being that young in the books as one poster alluded to. She had been a long-time desk jockey until being tabbed to command Voyager (she did most of the planning for project Full Circle) when Chuckles turned it down.
I already knew all that, so you haven't spoiled anything. It's the reason I would read the books. I want a living Janeway at the end, nothing else will do. Doesn't matter what the story was about or how well it was written, it didn't end right.
While you have a right to your opinion, it is only that and I maintain given the right author and proper editors Janeway stories, even as an admiral would be good. Look, there have only been three so called Voyager novels anyway, a good writer could easily handle that. I want those stories and I will continue to request them because in the end my opinion is just as good as yours.
Brit
FC was written, after Before Dishonor had already set the situation in which KJ was dead.
So all K. Beyer had to write needed to fit into this given storyline.
K. Beyer needed an Admiral (Batiste), some captains, ships and crews. So it wouldn't be difficult to get KJ together with her crew, when VOYAGER stays the leading ship of the fleet.
You misunderstood: I was talking about the forming and age of a CHARACTER, NOT about the fictive person Eden. The character was introduced to us by K. Beyer, so it is only 2 - 3 years old. And Eden was only written by KB. So no chance to mess anything up.
K. Beyer had to continue without Janeway. And she made up this situation especially for Adm. Batiste.
Who knows what she would have written when KJ would have been the admiral?
(BTW: A "wrong" KJ created by 8472 would have been packed with suspense too -just in case, KJ would have been with the fleet in Unworthy...).
- These are IDEAS of the writers. THEY create the life of the characters that it fits their story line. The authors and TPTB make things happen and nobody else.
Had KB gotten the task to send the fleet with Admiral KJ into the DQ - there would be a plausible and interesting plot for that situation now instead of Unworthy as we know it.
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I hope Kirsten Beyer comes in to correct me if I'm wrong. But if I remember correctly, during one of the many chats about this on the TrekLit forum, they had begun formulating plans for the Voyager continuation before Before Dishonor had been written. And had decided that Janeway wasn't going to be part of it going forward.
But I'm old, so I hope Ms. Beyer can set that part of the record straight.
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