Full Circle

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

No I would prefer not to have cameo Janeway but Janeway fully involved. However I will accept it if her role isn't prominent for some novels, just like it's not prominent for 7 who is another favorite of mine in every book. 7 gets a lot more page time than dead Janeway does however.

I am not asking for the past to be done away with, just for a future book to find Janeway and reinstate her. You don't want this and you obviously feel you need to convince those that do that they are wrong. Why I have no idea since you would read the books anyway.

 

[BillJ]

Re riker: Frankly, yes! He's no longer a TNG character when he's in Titan! Like Worf is no longer a DS9 character when he's in TNG or a TNG character when he's in DS9!

I guess the question would be: would I be upset if Riker, a TNG character, died in a Titan novel? The answer is no.

 

[HoneyBLilly]

And it's not just the "Militant Janeway" fans that don't like it. A lot of people don't.

To be honest, I could care less that Janeway's dead. It's just how she died that makes us angry.

Those were my initial feelings too. I literally threw the book across the room. I was really shocked that it was even published as it was so badly written, such a hatchet job and seemed to be taking the piss out of Trek for much of it.

I originally used to say that if one of my most beloved characters ever was to die I should have at least cried over it, felt the pain, mourned her passing, honored her sacrifice. I do not think anyone had this response to that piece of crap writing. However I've moved beyond that assessment and now I just want Janeway back. It's not like you can go back and fix her death, write it in a meaningful way, so lets bring her back in a meaningful way instead.

The best way I've described my feelings is after I read the fifth and sixth Harry Potter books. She killed off my two favorite characters! I cried, but they were loveable, I actually wanted to strangle Janeway in BD, that's not how it should be

 

[BillJ]

I am not asking for the past to be done away with, just for a future book to find Janeway and reinstate her. You don't want this and you obviously feel you need to convince those that do that they are wrong. Why I have no idea since you would read the books anyway.

I thought the point of a message board was healthy debate... which I thought we had going here.

Whether Janeway comes back or not really doesn't matter to me. What matters is the quality of the books. YMMV.

 

[DigificWriter]

And as to who said that when Janeway appeared in Nemesis she was no longer exclusively Voyager's, does that mean since Picard appeared in DS9's pilot that mean you associate him to DS9 too?

In a manner of speaking, yes it does; however, the two situations aren't entirely comparable because of one important fact, which is this: DS9 was launched as a direct spin-off from TNG, and was and continues to be treated as such, making those two particular series the Star Trek equivalent to Buffy the Vampire Slayer and ANGEL; they are very much interconnected, whereas Voyager, while occupying the same universe as TNG and DS9 (therefore giving it access to characters from said series), exists more or less as its own self-contained entity.

 

[kimc]

The best way I've described my feelings is after I read the fifth and sixth Harry Potter books. She killed off my two favorite characters! I cried, but they were loveable, I actually wanted to strangle Janeway in BD, that's not how it should be

Good point.

I'm a fan of shows that feature a lot of character death - nuBSG, Lost, etc. I own the dvds and watch them over and over. This one however pisses me off to no end. Thank goodness it's not canon.

 

[AuntKate]

The Janeway who appeared in most PB novels was not much like the Janeway I saw in the series. I found the PB Janeway to be humorless, arrogant, and often inhumane, which is nothing like the woman I watched on TV. I wonder if anyone but Beyer ever actually watched the show with an open mind. I enjoyed her "Isabo's Shirt" better than any other handling of Janeway in the last decade, but that was the exception, not the rule.

I want to read more of that Janeway I liked so much. What's wrong with that?

I understand the new captain is much like Janeway. My question is this: why kill Janeway only to replace her with someone who is pretty much the same person? Makes no sense.

 

[JB2005]

^ You might as well say, well we just had a republican president, now we're getting another republican president? What's the point? We already had a republican president, why not just keep the same one?

Eden and Janeway are nothing alike, beyond the fact they've both commanded Voyager!

(Oh and when someone points out I'm British and shouldn't comment on the US system, because It's not like that - that's my point. If you aren't familiar with something you should analogize it - so until you read Full Circle it's unfair to comment on it. I've never seen BSG, so I'm not going to go to the BSG forum and start commenting on it based on the SF Debris review I saw!)

 

[Brit]

If you aren't familiar with something you should analogize it - so until you read Full Circle it's unfair to comment on it. I've never seen BSG, so I'm not going to go to the BSG forum and start commenting on it based on the SF Debris review I saw!)

Just because a person hasn't read "Full Circle" does not mean that we cannot read a synopsis and know exactly who is and isn't in the book. I am not commenting on the quality of the book in question, I am complaining because Kathryn Janeway is dead at the end of the book. That is something I care about and a legitimate complaint about this book and in fact all of the Trek Books being published right now.

They are not writing about the character I want to read about and I can refrain from purchasing any trek book to voice that complaint. In fact I will not purchase Trek books until that character is returned.

One doesn't have to read a book before knowing that the book isn't for them, and to demand that we read it before having any opinion is unreasonable.

In fact I will give you an example. This is a book that I have read and thoroughly enjoyed, it is by an award winning author. From this information would you purchase this book and read it?

The universe isn’t what it used to be. With the new Alliance between the Triad and the United Coalition, Captain Tasha “Sass” Sebastian finds herself serving under her former nemesis, biocybe Admiral Branden Kel-Paten–and doing her best to hide a deadly past. But when an injured mercenary winds up in their ship’s sick bay–and in the hands of her best friend, Dr. Eden Fynn–Sass’s efforts may be wasted.

Wanted rebel Jace Serafino has information that could expose all of Sass’s secrets, tear the fragile Alliance apart–and end Sass’s career if Kel-Paten discovers them. But the biocybe has something to hide as well, something once thought impossible for his kind to possess: feelings . . . for Sass. Soon it’s clear that their prisoner could bring down everything they once believed was worth dying for–and everything they now have to live for.

There is no way for you to not have an opinion, either you would want to read it or you wouldn't, and you don't have to read one page to have that opinion and it is perfectly legitimate.

For those who might be interested the book it here on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Games-Command...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1300675105&sr=1-1

There is always enough information on the internet, and on book jackets to form a valid opinion about a book, and you can form it before you purchase it. Your argument that we have to read "Full Circle" first before forming an opinion is faulty.

Brit

 

[JB2005]

If you aren't familiar with something you should analogize it - so until you read Full Circle it's unfair to comment on it. I've never seen BSG, so I'm not going to go to the BSG forum and start commenting on it based on the SF Debris review I saw!)

Just because a person hasn't read "Full Circle" does not mean that we cannot read a synopsis and know exactly who is and isn't in the book. I am not commenting on the quality of the book in question, I am complaining because Kathryn Janeway is dead at the end of the book. That is something I care about and a legitimate complaint about this book and in fact all of the Trek Books being published right now.

They are not writing about the character I want to read about and I can refrain from purchasing any trek book to voice that complaint. In fact I will not purchase Trek books until that character is returned.

One doesn't have to read a book before knowing that the book isn't for them, and to demand that we read it before having any opinion is unreasonable.

In fact I will give you an example. This is a book that I have read and thoroughly enjoyed, it is by an award winning author. From this information would you purchase this book and read it?

The universe isn’t what it used to be. With the new Alliance between the Triad and the United Coalition, Captain Tasha “Sass” Sebastian finds herself serving under her former nemesis, biocybe Admiral Branden Kel-Paten–and doing her best to hide a deadly past. But when an injured mercenary winds up in their ship’s sick bay–and in the hands of her best friend, Dr. Eden Fynn–Sass’s efforts may be wasted.

Wanted rebel Jace Serafino has information that could expose all of Sass’s secrets, tear the fragile Alliance apart–and end Sass’s career if Kel-Paten discovers them. But the biocybe has something to hide as well, something once thought impossible for his kind to possess: feelings . . . for Sass. Soon it’s clear that their prisoner could bring down everything they once believed was worth dying for–and everything they now have to live for.

There is no way for you to not have an opinion, either you would want to read it or you wouldn't, and you don't have to read one page to have that opinion and it is perfectly legitimate.

For those who might be interested the book it here on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Games-Command...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1300675105&sr=1-1

There is always enough information on the internet, and on book jackets to form a valid opinion about a book, and you can form it before you purchase it. Your argument that we have to read "Full Circle" first before forming an opinion is faulty.

Brit

There's a reason the expression is "don't judge a book by its cover."

Anecdotally - we had to read Waiting for Godot and Wuthering Heights for my A-Level English.

Waiting for Godot, I looked at the cover and read a synopsis "A play where nothing happens" how boring, I thought, why would I ever want to read that? It's without a doubt one of the best pieces of literature I've ever read, and I was lucky enough to see Sir Patrick Stewart and Sir Ian Mckellan perform it in the West End...

Similarly, Wuthering Heights. A love story written two hundred years ago, why would I want to read that? Again a superb piece of literature that I am glad I read, (I also recommend the Spike Milligan version - hilarious!)

And as for all that about book jackets telling you what you want to know...i have a first edition of "Ship of the Line", the book jacket in no way gives a synopsis of the story therein, it was changed radically but no one updated the blurb!

I get that you're so darn mad that Janeway's not in Voyager anymore that you're boycotting Trek. We all know. I've been a member of this board 2 years now and the same people were griping about it when I arrived! We know - you're mad. But it's not going to change. And Ms Beyer has written a fantastic duo of Voyager books, if she'd been writing for the series there is little doubt in my mind we'd have Voyager Films right now, because she energised the series in a way that most of the writers never managed.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

But it's not going to change.

How do you know that?

"We get that you are mad Star Trek was canceled after only two seasons and you're writing all those fruitless letters and complaining about it constantly. But it's not going to change."

 

[od0_ital]

^

Yeah, that was the '60s, when folks took time & spent money to send real letters, which will always be more impressive than a few folks complainin' on the internet.

 

[JB2005]

But it's not going to change.

How do you know that?

"We get that you are mad Star Trek was canceled after only two seasons and you're writing all those fruitless letters and complaining about it constantly. But it's not going to change."

It's been 3 years. And you are like 20/30 people on the internet? Hardly the same thing! And the Voyager Relaunch clearly has been well received or Ms Beyer wouldn't have been given the go ahead to write a third...

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

There are 800+ people on just one facebook page about bringing Janeway back to Treklit. Clearly this is more than "20/30 people on the internet".

We really have no idea how many people are writing letters much less how many people just wandered away from Treklit because of this.

I've never said Beyer's books were not well written, an improvement on past VOY books or in fact anything negative about them that I recall. Just because she is a vastly superior writer to Peter David doesn't mean I don't want Janeway back.

 

[Brit]

If you aren't familiar with something you should analogize it - so until you read Full Circle it's unfair to comment on it. I've never seen BSG, so I'm not going to go to the BSG forum and start commenting on it based on the SF Debris review I saw!)

Just because a person hasn't read "Full Circle" does not mean that we cannot read a synopsis and know exactly who is and isn't in the book. I am not commenting on the quality of the book in question, I am complaining because Kathryn Janeway is dead at the end of the book. That is something I care about and a legitimate complaint about this book and in fact all of the Trek Books being published right now.

They are not writing about the character I want to read about and I can refrain from purchasing any trek book to voice that complaint. In fact I will not purchase Trek books until that character is returned.

One doesn't have to read a book before knowing that the book isn't for them, and to demand that we read it before having any opinion is unreasonable.

In fact I will give you an example. This is a book that I have read and thoroughly enjoyed, it is by an award winning author. From this information would you purchase this book and read it?

The universe isn’t what it used to be. With the new Alliance between the Triad and the United Coalition, Captain Tasha “Sass” Sebastian finds herself serving under her former nemesis, biocybe Admiral Branden Kel-Paten–and doing her best to hide a deadly past. But when an injured mercenary winds up in their ship’s sick bay–and in the hands of her best friend, Dr. Eden Fynn–Sass’s efforts may be wasted.

Wanted rebel Jace Serafino has information that could expose all of Sass’s secrets, tear the fragile Alliance apart–and end Sass’s career if Kel-Paten discovers them. But the biocybe has something to hide as well, something once thought impossible for his kind to possess: feelings . . . for Sass. Soon it’s clear that their prisoner could bring down everything they once believed was worth dying for–and everything they now have to live for.

There is no way for you to not have an opinion, either you would want to read it or you wouldn't, and you don't have to read one page to have that opinion and it is perfectly legitimate.

For those who might be interested the book it here on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Games-Command...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1300675105&sr=1-1

There is always enough information on the internet, and on book jackets to form a valid opinion about a book, and you can form it before you purchase it. Your argument that we have to read "Full Circle" first before forming an opinion is faulty.

Brit

There's a reason the expression is "don't judge a book by its cover."

Anecdotally - we had to read Waiting for Godot and Wuthering Heights for my A-Level English.

Waiting for Godot, I looked at the cover and read a synopsis "A play where nothing happens" how boring, I thought, why would I ever want to read that? It's without a doubt one of the best pieces of literature I've ever read, and I was lucky enough to see Sir Patrick Stewart and Sir Ian Mckellan perform it in the West End...

Similarly, Wuthering Heights. A love story written two hundred years ago, why would I want to read that? Again a superb piece of literature that I am glad I read, (I also recommend the Spike Milligan version - hilarious!)

And as for all that about book jackets telling you what you want to know...i have a first edition of "Ship of the Line", the book jacket in no way gives a synopsis of the story therein, it was changed radically but no one updated the blurb!

I get that you're so darn mad that Janeway's not in Voyager anymore that you're boycotting Trek. We all know. I've been a member of this board 2 years now and the same people were griping about it when I arrived! We know - you're mad. But it's not going to change. And Ms Beyer has written a fantastic duo of Voyager books, if she'd been writing for the series there is little doubt in my mind we'd have Voyager Films right now, because she energised the series in a way that most of the writers never managed.

Nice strawman argument diverting attention away from my point and that is you have already formed an opinion about whether or not you would spend money on that particular book. Either you will run right out and buy it and read it or you won't.

Again no one is saying any of Kirsten Beyer's books are well written or not, that has nothing to do with this argument at all.

FYI I read "Wuthering Hights" too and hated it, I much perfer "Jane Eyre."

Brit

 

[JB2005]

Out of somewhat morbid curiosity, how would you want Janeway to be brought back? ie What would be the circumstances of her return?

 

[Brit]

Out of somewhat morbid curiosity, how would you want Janeway to be brought back? ie What would be the circumstances of her return?

LOL personally I would like for her (remember she is with the Q) to actually enter her own body just before they go into the Transwarp Hub in "Endgame" and then jump Chakotay's bones on that trip to Tevlik's moon. And frankly I think she really and I do mean really POed at finding herself with the Q.

Brit

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

My only preference for her being brought back is that she is fully human and not with residual Q powers or something. A real person.

And yes I think she would be QUITE irritated by the whole Q element. I think it would be cool if Eden found her.. out there.. perhaps with no memory or perhaps having built up a life for herself on another planet having while trying to return to the old life that was snatched from her.

 

[Kathryn J.]

Out of somewhat morbid curiosity, how would you want Janeway to be brought back? ie What would be the circumstances of her return?

teacake: My only preference for her being brought back is that she is fully human and not with residual Q powers or something. A real person.

I completely agree with teacake!

I think, she would make a deal with the Q. Because the Borg assimilated her knowledge, they would also know a lot about the Continuum and how to enter it. So, of course, the Q truly might be afraid of the Borg (at least of residual Borg collectives -I bet they still exist!-) or whatever follows the Borg by absorbing them in the books.
Janeway would be able to get the Q out of danger after they'd give her her own body back and would guarantee her a return to a normal human life. She would meet with VOYAGER and Captain Chakotay in the DQ.
(Now here would come MY point where she would jump his bones or he hers, however, http://www.newearth-jcparadise.de/template/fanfics/doubt_english.html)

As we have seen already, K. Beyer NEEDED a Fleet ADMIRAL. I seriously wonder why this had to be a "made up character" and not KJ herself? I really see no sense and no benefit to take an artificial, only on paper existing character instead of Adm. Janeway to fill in this place.

BTW, I'm really tired of those books without Janeway. I tried to follow this new line with FC and Unworthy, sorry, but for me this isn't VOYAGER anymore.
Feels like TNG without Picard or TOS without Kirk and Spock. Don't know who would like that!

Summa summarum: If Janeway doesn't come back, I'm better going to save my money and spent it on better books than on such crap of a VOYAGER torso.
Yet I'm still hoping that TPTB will come to their senses (also in their own interest of making profite) and will bring Janeway back to ST universe.

We are a group of more than 800 Janeway fans on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=366418642046
who are thinking exactly the same.
You are welcome to join us, when you are having the same opinion.

 

[Galekarens]

The first half of Full Circle, which I fairly well liked (except for the Prologue of Tragedy) showed that Kathyrn Janeway could be a viable, active character in the books, Admiralship notwithstanding, in fact, she was important to the mission shown. Of course there could be other ways she could be part of Voyager books, in fact, she could well be the Admiral of the Fleet in the DQ. Janeway could be sent back by the Q at any time, for any reason, since they are omnipotent, of course. The only reason KJ isn't in the books now is because someone just decided she wouldn't be. So it can now be decided that she be brought back; all that is needed is an idea, which an imaginative writer could certainly come up with. After all, this is science fiction. And there would be a readership market for that, indeed, her fans will show that. Bring her back!