Full Circle style mini-fleets for exploration

[Shamrock Holmes]

Traditionally Star Trek has been about 'one ship/base' and 'one crew', but one of the reasons I like the Voyager Relaunch currently is the variety of stories you tell with a group of ships optimised for different tasks. The only thing that I find odd is that Voyager, one of the smaller ships in the task group is the flagship (although IIRC the Vesta is the flagship now which makes more sense).

Based on RW analogues, the typical Exploratory Task Group would be lead by a large Explorer-type (Vesta-class for Transwarp Exploratory Task Groups, Galaxy- or Sovereign-class for traditional ETGs), with a couple of smaller exploratory "cruisers" (Nebula, Intrepid, Luna) capable of independent operations, two or three Escorts (New Orleans-class frigates, Defiant, Sabre, Merian), plus 2 or 3 auxiliary vessels (P:FC suggests a medical ship, a bio-sciences ship and a engineering ship which seems sensible.

Are there any major disadvantages of this approach? Is this where Starfleet should be going in the future? Even should have been doing before now?

 

[Christopher]

The only thing that I find odd is that Voyager, one of the smaller ships in the task group is the flagship (although IIRC the Vesta is the flagship now which makes more sense).

"Flagship" doesn't mean the biggest or strongest ship, it just means the ship where the fleet commander is based. It makes sense for that to be the commander of Voyager, both because of experience and because Voyager is the ship that's already known in the Delta Quadrant (although that's often more a liability than an asset).

Are there any major disadvantages of this approach? Is this where Starfleet should be going in the future? Even should have been doing before now?

I've thought for a long time now that it'd make more sense for ships to travel in groups, or at least pairs. That way, if one ship has an engine breakdown or something, it won't be stranded in interstellar space.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

"Flagship" doesn't mean the biggest or strongest ship, it just means the ship where the fleet commander is based. It makes sense for that to be the commander of Voyager, both because of experience and because Voyager is the ship that's already known in the Delta Quadrant (although that's often more a liability than an asset).

I agree that in the specific case of Project Full Circle, it makes some sense that Janeway put her 'flag' on Voyager for the reasons that you suggest. However, I think most people would agree that having either the biggest and/or best ship in the group as the flagship usually makes more sense (unless like the USN you have a specific type designed only/mostly for that purpose. USNs LCCs are bigger than virtually any modern surface combat ship (the most recent USN exception probably being Iowa-class battleship) but dwarfed by the other flagships of the Fleet (which are much larger supercarriers).

 

[Christopher]

However, I think most people would agree that having either the biggest and/or best ship in the group as the flagship usually makes more sense

Oh, I dunno. I mean, the biggest, most impressive ship is where enemies are going to assume the fleet commander is based, so arguably it makes more sense for the commander to be based somewhere less obvious.

Of course, we are talking about Starfleet, an organization that puts its starships' vital command centers right on top where they're easy to shoot at...

 

[SolarisOne]

If I were the fleet commander, I'd want to be aboard the most maneuverable, nimble ship. For Full Circle, that's Voyager. (Though, I think I'd rather plant my flag on a Defiant-class ship, if it were possible to give them further range.)

Also, I think it's going to be absolutely necessary for small fleets to explore now, instead of single ships, with the advent of slipstream drive. If you're on the other side of the galaxy, and your slipstream drive is destroyed. It doesn't matter if you still have warp or not, you're a new Voayger, especially if you don't have a communications network set up already where you are. Then there are, of course, tactical considerations. Voayger, by itself, really should have never made it home at all, as many times as it got in fights they shouldn't have been able to win. Realistically, it wouldn't have made it alone.

 

[The Wormhole]

However, I think most people would agree that having either the biggest and/or best ship in the group as the flagship usually makes more sense

IIRC, back in WWII at least, it was pretty common for admirals to choose destroyers or frigates as their flagships as opposed to battleships or carriers simply because they were more comfortable on those ships than they were on the larger ones. Indeed, Ron Moore used this logic on BSG when Adama was promoted to Admiral to explain why he stayed on Galactica rather than transferring over to Pegasus.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Putting aside whether it's canon or not, do you think that the Spirit-class explorer scout designed by Mark Rademaker (aka Clawhammer) as a companion to the Vesta-class "exploration cruiser" would be useful in our hypothetical Transwarp Exploratory Task Group?

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Spirit_(NX-79995)

I get a slightly patrol boat/long range fighter vibe from it (suggested a 'Starfleet BoP' type scenario to Mark at one point, which he was cool with), but I'm not sure that there's any point in the more restricted platform with the Treklit exclusive Merian-class "exploration frigate" available (The Sprit is about the size of a HMS Bounty-type BoP with a crew of 13-30, phaser cannons and only about a dozen torpedoes, wheras the Merian seems intended as a Miranda-class/New Orleans-class replacement).

 

[The Wormhole]

I thought that was only supposed to be a testbed to see if quantum slipstream would work?

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

I thought that was only supposed to be a testbed to see if quantum slipstream would work?

That was certainly why it was built, and we have no canon on whether it went further that, but it was the intention of the artist that there was two prototypes (USS Spirit - explorer scout shown above; and the USS Amsterdam - corvette/medical transport) and then a production run, with the systematic names based on 'mythological creatures'.

My question revolves around this idea.

 

[James Swallow]

I actually pitched the idea of a "Full Circle" type task force for the Titan series in the earliest outlines for my novel Sight Unseen...
At that point, we were still considering sending Titan back to the Gum Nebula, to return to the exploratory mission that had been interrupted by the events of The Fall miniseries. My idea was that Riker - now promoted to admiral - would command a flotilla of exploratory vessels with the U.S.S. Titan as his flagship. The other ships were the Nebula-class science vessel U.S.S. Proxima, the Nova-class light cruiser U.S.S. Aurora and the U.S.S. London, an aging New Orleans-class warship refitted for exploration duty.
But in the end, we decided to keep Titan closer to home so the idea didn't grow past that point. Still, in my mind, I imagine that maybe that fleet did continue the Gum Nebula mission, but perhaps with the Ganymede in the 'command ship' role...

 

[Mage]

I actually pitched the idea of a "Full Circle" type task force for the Titan series in the earliest outlines for my novel Sight Unseen...
At that point, we were still considering sending Titan back to the Gum Nebula, to return to the exploratory mission that had been interrupted by the events of The Fall miniseries. My idea was that Riker - now promoted to admiral - would command a flotilla of exploratory vessels with the U.S.S. Titan as his flagship. The other ships were the Nebula-class science vessel U.S.S. Proxima, the Nova-class light cruiser U.S.S. Aurora and the U.S.S. London, an aging New Orleans-class warship refitted for exploration duty.
But in the end, we decided to keep Titan closer to home so the idea didn't grow past that point. Still, in my mind, I imagine that maybe that fleet did continue the Gum Nebula mission, but perhaps with the Ganymede in the 'command ship' role...

If you write it, they will read.....

 

[Doom Shepherd]

That is one thing that's always bothered me about Trek's "fleet." Single ships, for exploration? Since when has that been a thing? Columbus had three, Magellan had five, our modern carrier Strike Groups have 5-6 (1 Aircraft Carrier, 1 Guided Missile Cruiser, 2 Light Airborne Capable Warships, and 1-2 Anti Submarine Destroyers or Frigates) or more, but Starfleet ships go it alone?

Maybe that's why we seem to have so many "ship disappeared and nobody knows how or why" incidents? You'd think a fleet would have different outcomes - at least there's a better chance someone might get away and report the losses.

Sure, I understand from a standpoint of "have to make a low-budget TV series," but still.

Fleets make sense.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

That is one thing that's always bothered me about Trek's "fleet." Single ships, for exploration? Since when has that been a thing? Columbus had three, Magellan had five, our modern carrier Strike Groups have 5-6 (1 Aircraft Carrier, 1 Guided Missile Cruiser, 2 Light Airborne Capable Warships, and 1-2 Anti Submarine Destroyers or Frigates) or more, but Starfleet ships go it alone?

Maybe that's why we seem to have so many "ship disappeared and nobody knows how or why" incidents? You'd think a fleet would have different outcomes - at least there's a better chance someone might get away and report the losses.

Sure, I understand from a standpoint of "have to make a low-budget TV series," but still.

Fleets make sense.

I agree, at minimum if you are going to go with the single 'base' ship, it should large enough to carry several medium-range warp capable auxiliary vessels (from the 2370s on this would be the Runabout or Flyer) as the Galaxy class aparrantly was but didn't.

 

[JD]

That is one thing that's always bothered me about Trek's "fleet." Single ships, for exploration? Since when has that been a thing? Columbus had three, Magellan had five, our modern carrier Strike Groups have 5-6 (1 Aircraft Carrier, 1 Guided Missile Cruiser, 2 Light Airborne Capable Warships, and 1-2 Anti Submarine Destroyers or Frigates) or more, but Starfleet ships go it alone?

Maybe that's why we seem to have so many "ship disappeared and nobody knows how or why" incidents? You'd think a fleet would have different outcomes - at least there's a better chance someone might get away and report the losses.

Sure, I understand from a standpoint of "have to make a low-budget TV series," but still.

Fleets make sense.

You could explain it by saying that a single 23rd or 24th Century Starfleet ship is capable of doing all of the stuff modern fleets do. On the other hand it does still leave the problem of having all of your resources together, and no one to help you if you run into trouble you can't handle on your own.

 

[Corran Horn]

"Flagship" doesn't mean the biggest or strongest ship, it just means the ship where the fleet commander is based. It makes sense for that to be the commander of Voyager, both because of experience and because Voyager is the ship that's already known in the Delta Quadrant (although that's often more a liability than an asset).

Except for TNG, where it pretty clearly didn't have anything to do with a fleet commander.

 

[Ensign_Rowan_McGrath]

I actually pitched the idea of a "Full Circle" type task force for the Titan series in the earliest outlines for my novel Sight Unseen...
At that point, we were still considering sending Titan back to the Gum Nebula, to return to the exploratory mission that had been interrupted by the events of The Fall miniseries. My idea was that Riker - now promoted to admiral - would command a flotilla of exploratory vessels with the U.S.S. Titan as his flagship. The other ships were the Nebula-class science vessel U.S.S. Proxima, the Nova-class light cruiser U.S.S. Aurora and the U.S.S. London, an aging New Orleans-class warship refitted for exploration duty.
But in the end, we decided to keep Titan closer to home so the idea didn't grow past that point. Still, in my mind, I imagine that maybe that fleet did continue the Gum Nebula mission, but perhaps with the Ganymede in the 'command ship' role...

The idea of multiple ship exploration task forces would seem like a fantastic idea to explore. The safety in numbers would help and it'd be interesting to see different captains compete to see which one was the more senior and decide the direction of the task force in new regions.

 

[Christopher]

it'd be interesting to see different captains compete to see which one was the more senior and decide the direction of the task force in new regions.

I'm sure the chain of command would be well-established at the start. The whole reason there is a chain of command is so everyone's clear on who's in charge of what and confusion like that won't happen.

 

[Ensign_Rowan_McGrath]

I'm sure the chain of command would be well-established at the start. The whole reason there is a chain of command is so everyone's clear on who's in charge of what and confusion like that won't happen.

You never know, sometimes ego does get ahead. That's what made some crew briefings entertaining in the series and movies.

 

[Markonian]

I like the idea, which is why I dig Seekers and Rise of the Federation so much - multiple ships working in tandem, even if they're not cruising side by side.

 

[The Wormhole]

The idea of multiple ship exploration task forces would seem like a fantastic idea to explore. The safety in numbers would help and it'd be interesting to see different captains compete to see which one was the more senior and decide the direction of the task force in new regions.

That situation would not arise at all. For starters, the task force would have a flag officer or fleet commander who would have authority over the entire fleet. Also, it seems unlikely the commanding officers of all the ships would be O6-level Captains, there would very likely be ships commanded by Commanders or even Lieutenant Commanders, as we see with the Full Circle fleet. Finally, even among officers of the same rank, command authority typically falls to whoever has seniority in that rank. Or if it comes down to it, there is apparently a Starfleet protocol allowing the CO of the "tactically superior" ship to take authority.