Full Circle Review Thread (Spoilers)

[Kathryn J.]

@Kirsten Beyer, Pocket Books and all VOYAGER fans

First of all I must say how shameful it has been about 5 years since Pocket Books has released any VOYAGER re-launch novels from ENEMY OF MY ENEMY but have continuously focused on TITAN, TNG, DS9, NEW FRONTIER which aren't even nearly as good as VOYAGER.
Beyer does a very great job at finishing up Christie Golden's ideas and her own story ISABO´S SHIRT and she greatly improves upon it. This is the re-launch novel that Voyager fans have really been waiting for.
I have to say right here and now that I hope that every VOYAGER book from here on out is written by Kirsten Beyer. The characters have been very well drawn. Deep feelings. 560 pages of a very emotional journey. Sometimes I was sighing, often crying, from time to time hardly swallowing and seldom if ever laughing reading FULL CIRCLE. Exciting on every level. Couldn't put neither ISABO´S SHIRT nor FULL CIRCLE down!
Great thanks to Kirsten Beyer to have the courage to create a fulfilling of the love story for Janeway and Chakotay, VOYAGER´S ultimate love story. Their first night together… that all “J/C” fans have craved for about 10 years.
The moment Janeway held the Bonding Box that Chakotay had returned to her in ISABO´S SHIRT carved with the symbol for friendship/hope, and reading her deep desire to change it back to the one she originally created symbolizing love, my heart was both over overjoyed and deeply saddened. Overjoyed that she was finally ready to make a life with Chakotay and saddened at knowing it would never come to pass. Broke my heart, hurt me so much....especially after reading the back-story Beyer created for Janeway and Chakotay. The love story was much too short compared with the sad story line. Why did she not a little bit more tell about their love making?

I must say how deeply disappointed I was about the death of Janeway. Why not kill Picard, Riker, Sisko or Mr. Spock? Those characters are much older, and should be let go before Janeway. The idea of Peter David killing her in the TNG (!!!) re-launch novel BEFORE DISHONOR makes me sick. What is he/ are you trying to achieve by that? Sales promotion? Hurting the fans loving her? Is VOYAGER´S lobby too small or too weak?
Hopefully, the next or the after next book will tidy up the mess made in BEFORE DISHONOR, and BRING BACK JANEWAY!!!
My other hope is that Mrs. Beyer doesn’t revive the “C/7” relationship in UNWORTHY. It would ruin the entire series for me and Chakotay’s character too. But I do not like the fact that Captain Eden is in command, while hardly any VOYAGER crew members are left onboard except for Kim and Paris. I believe the height of the show was with Janeway and Chakotay in command. I don't believe Eden will live up to that height. I also believe that the show isn't really much of a re-launch if they kill off the main characters and do little about the old ones.

I must say how surprised I was that Janeway’s friends and former crewmates are only deeply saddened and depressed over Janeway's disappearance. But is she really dead? They didn’t find her corpse! Why didn’t they look for her, fight for her? What’s the matter with them? Certainly, they are stunned, but are they stoned too? Something is wrong here! I can’t accept this. These aren’t the angry warriors we know!
Indeed, all her friends and former crewmates we know from the TV series will risk their lives rescuing their former captain and their beloved ones too! They successfully rescued and revived one another by fighting and by time travel at many times during the series. Sometimes it took them a few years to do this. They wouldn’t give up Janeway for lost or dead and abandon her to her fate, respectively. (Q loves Janeway too. He also could help them to press the “reset button”).
If Janeway became a Borg or a Borg Queen…Picard, Seven and Icheb are back from the hive and Brenna Covington who became a Borg Queen in HOMECOMING by Ch. Golden didn’t lost her limbs but stayed human. There would be a way out!
Janeways’s death is honorable but also horrific. What has Janeway done to deserve this? She doesn’t deserve death after all and she’s too young for death too. Every time her duty and her care for other ones came first. Now she has to come first.

I’m very worried about VOYAGER’S future. VOYAGER without Janeway doesn’t work! I assure you Janeway's death will finally become a deal breaker. VOYAGER without Janeway (and Chakotay) would be like ENTERPRISE TOS without Kirk (Spock & McCoy). At first readers and fans would be curious about Janeway’s death, the love story etc. But VOYAGER wouldn’t have a future without Janeway, because SHE is the heart and soul of it and no one is able to replace her.. It’s her saga.
Pocket Books will lose all readers loving Janeway and “J/C” – the most of VOYAGER fans. We are reading the books because of Janeway and “J/C”! Fans of VOYAGER want to see the core crew, the crew that we saw on TV, not some new character that's been drummed up after they killed Janeway to satisfy a TNG plot. If Janeway didn’t come back we’ll draw the line.

Despite these facts FULL CIRCLE is one of the best STAR TREK novels ever published. The love story of “J/C” written by Kirsten Beyer is a very good, emotional read!
I desperately (but also a little bit certainly) hope Kirsten Beyer will bring back Janeway and will re-unit the main characters. It would be the only logical choice for VOYAGER’S future if she really loves Janeway and VOYAGER.
The exciting “Bring Back Story” written by K. Beyer including “Chakotay marries Janeway in Venice” would be a great STAR TREK bestseller like FULL CIRCLE now! (After that they could settle down peacefully anywhere, maybe. And VOYAGER NEXT GENERATION could be launched like. All fans would be happy and with ease looking forward to new adventures.)
Dear Mrs. Beyer, please, nod your head and “just do it!”

This is not only my opinion. My kids, their friends being STAR TREK fans (TNG fans too!) and my whole friends at the Officinal Star Trek Fan Club Germany also think about the fact of Janeway’s death and VOYAGER’S future without her in that way.
Please come and see www.OSTFC.de! There the VOYAGER fans discuss about FULL CIRCLE at several threads.

Sorry for my long posting, but VOYAGER means very much to me and my friends.
Dear Mrs. Beyer, I would be very grateful to get an answer to my posting. Thank you.
(Please use email: Drpommerenke@aol.com)

 

[Wally]

1) Why does it take halfway through the book for Chakotey to admit he was in love with Janeway when we, as viewers and readers sorta knew this already?

2) Chakotey should have realized himself that he wasn't fit for command early on instead of having us sit through till the end for him to realize this. It just seems like it drags on till the Epilogue. He needed closure yes but couldn't you have done it earlier? Is Starfleet that oblivious that they couldn't see it right away? And what will happen to him now that he retired? Will Starfleet let him off the hook that easily?

3) Why is Seven not being called Annika if she is no longer Borg?

4) That whole scene with Troi and Tuvok was a complete waste and not at all sensical. Wouldn't Tuvok had already known about her death months earlier? How is it Troi knew and not him? Not really plausible if you ask me..

5) So Kerovi is mentioned and we find out about the mission and why it's urgent and then the story takes a 180 to tell us about a mother/daughter story and Chakotey.. and Kerovi appears again later briefly... Again, why can't Starfleet order them to go and they don't even get punished?

6) I know Voyager has the experience with the Delta Quadrent but why are they going to check to see if the Calier and Borg are truly gone when they have no knoweldge or encounters with them? Shouldn't Enterprise and Titan be the ones to go or accompany them since they encountered and met them? Speaking of which....

7) Why doesn't Admiral Montgomery or Batiste order Seven to accompany Voyager seeing as she used to be a Borg? Would make sense right?

8) Unworthy will continue the story began in Full Circle I take it?

Kirsten,

Aside from my comments, this was an excellent read and I enjoyed it immensly as I did your last one. In fact, your part of the String Theory was the best out of the other two so I was glad that my second book of yours didn't dissapoint as well and I look forward to reading Unworthy six months from now and any other Trek you may brewing on the horizon.

1) How come he didn't admit such a thing in 7 years on the show. Why are Picard and Crusher only just now hooking up in the books after, what? 15+ years? It's just how the medium works. Kirsten probably wanted to put that revelation off as long as possible so they could only spend one night together as a couple before ripping that away from him, which would be more devastating than having a happy relationship shattered supposedly.

2) I don't know. He was clearly messed up. Chakotay is not my favorite character, and bad things happened to him here, but he is clearly dealing worse with it than other characters.

3) She's been called Seven of Nine for basicall her entire life. If you found out your real name was something different than what you've been using for the last 20 years, would you revert back to it?

6) The other ships are busy doing their own thing and they don't have the slipstream drive. They may know something about the Caeilar, but 'Voyager' is the authority on the Borg AND the Delta Quadrant.

7) Seven isn't Starfleet. I believe she is still civilian. The Admirals can't order her to do anything.

8) Yes. Consider 'Full Circle' as the pilot for the new VOY-R, and 'Unworthy' as the first episode. Once 'Unworthy' hits the shelves, then it should be more clear where this series is heading.

 

[JB2005]

Why are Picard and Crusher only just now hooking up in the books

This was because TPTB didn't want them getting together so Picard could have lovers in the movies (ie that woman in Insurrection and in the first draft of First Contact)

 

[Christopher]

3) Why is Seven not being called Annika if she is no longer Borg?

Because she doesn't want to be. As has been established in previous books, she prefers to continue being called Seven of Nine. She's never been fully comfortable with her human identity, her past, whatever.

4) That whole scene with Troi and Tuvok was a complete waste and not at all sensical. Wouldn't Tuvok had already known about her death months earlier? How is it Troi knew and not him? Not really plausible if you ask me..

You are aware, aren't you, that Troi and Tuvok both serve on the same ship which is months away from the Federation? Tuvok doesn't have magical psychic awareness of everything that happens to his former crewmates. It took time for the news to reach Titan, and Deanna read the message before Tuvok did.

6) I know Voyager has the experience with the Delta Quadrent but why are they going to check to see if the Calier and Borg are truly gone when they have no knoweldge or encounters with them?

You answered the question before you asked it. This is a mission to the Delta Quadrant, so naturally you send the ones with experience. Also, Voyager's crew had far more encounters with the Borg than anyone else ever did.

7) Seven isn't Starfleet. I believe she is still civilian. The Admirals can't order her to do anything.

She is an instructor at Starfleet Academy, and Before Dishonor had her in Starfleet uniform, I believe. But maybe she's more "attached" as a consultant than an actual officer.

 

[DarKush]

I finished this book yesterday. Mrs. Beyer did something I thought impossible: she made me like the Voyager crew.

I actually felt sorry for the hell that had endured by the end of the novel, which I found surprising because I had found the characters fairly boring and poorly developed on the TV show, and just picked up Full Circle on a lark to see how it might tie into the Destiny trilogy.

Almost all the Voyager characters got good character time/development and the Janeway/Chakotay pairing was believable and organic. When Owen Paris died in the Destiny books I didn't care, but after reading about his relationship with Tom in FC, I did.

Though Janeway's dead, her shadow loomed large, and I finally started to get what Janeway fans might have seen in her, thanks to Mrs. Beyer.

I enjoyed the new characters, the shifty Admiral Batiste, Captain Eden, and Counselor Cambridge especially. I do have a concern that Cambridge might become a Gary Stu, but only time will tell. Eden seems like a worthy person to take the reins, but I'm not sure about her alien origin. That was an interesting twist, but I'm willing to at least give Unworthy a shot and if that's good, stick with the VOY-R as long as Beyer is writing it.

The VOY-R is now in the driver's seat of the various Trek series for making bold decisions regarding character development/changes. It's a gutsy move leaving Paris and Kim as the only regulars on Voyager, while having the Doctor and Vorik on other ships. Though B'Elanna is heading toward the DQ, and I'm sure that Chakotay and Seven won't be far behind. So, a reunion will occur. Also, my gut tells me that Janeway isn't "dead" dead. It would be too much of an event not to bring her back, in a DS9-R Unity type of event novel somewhere down the road. Eden seeking her alien heritage would provide a graceful way to remove her from the captain's chair when the time comes and put Chakotay back in as well. But until the status quo returns I'm interested to see where Mrs. Beyer will take the reconstitued crew.

 

[Claudia]

Who says the Klingons have no interest in the D-Quadrant?

Hey, I didn't just assert that as a random statement -- I explained why it seems unlikely that they'd have an interest. I don't appreciate going to the trouble to construct a plausible case and then having every word of it ignored.

I'm sorry - but I just don't buy into that "case" you made. We are not talking about the random Klingon who indeed would focus on the rebuilding of his home, but a fanatic faction of them who certainly have their "agents" in the upper echelons of Klingon society (take f.e. the two servants of Kahless').

It's not as if project Full Circle would be advertised, so they wouldn't *know* about it... at least not now.

I'm sure that that Federation is making the highest echelons in the Klingon government aware of the project and their findings. After all, they are allies, and that alliance is stronger than ever in the wake of recent events.

but the knowledge that she's alive would reach the A-Quadrant, also where exactly she and Miral are to be found (i.e. coordinates of VOY)...

Doesn't that directly contradict what you said in the previous paragraph? First you claim that the Klingons would be kept in the dark about the very existence of the project, then two sentences later you claim that the Klingons would be able to get precise, detailed information about the project as if the whole thing were being posted on Facebook or something. You can't make both those claims as part of the same argument.

I think I can - because I meant that the government wouldn't necessarily be informed (which you even refuted!), but then there's something like an intelligence service certainly at work even on the Klingon side which could find that out. And to that I was refering.

Granted, right *now* the situation I was proposing would be far-fetched, but that could change during VOY's longterm mission.

Which is exactly my point. What you're worrying about is not likely to become a realistic prospect for years at the very least. Any number of things could change radically in that time. So there's no point in borrowing trouble by worrying prematurely about something that isn't a problem yet and may never become one. There are always plenty of more immediate problems to focus on. If it becomes a credible risk later on, that's the time to expend energy worrying about it. Until then, it's merely a waste of energy that should be focused on more immediate concerns.

Erm, please let me worry and waste my energy as I see fit. I just find it a futile exercise to build your own slipstream ship, stage your death (which everyone believes in), get away into the D-quadrant - just to rejoin the fleet and at least make part of what you were working for and made huge sacrifices for redundant. Everything of course on the premise that B'Elanna really rejoins VOY - if she doesn't, Tom leaves his post and they settle on some random planet then it's not the issue.

Frankly, I just don't understand why they didn't just leave on B'Elanna's ship and be done with it (especially considering the way someone in this thread said that it really doesn't matter whether the Klingons learn of her continued survival since they're all now on the other end of the galaxy) - granted, she wouldn't be "dead" for the public, but if no one knows exactly where she went, and she has that slipstream-propulsion, the entire galaxy's a pretty large place to go looking for someone.

It's not that B'Elanna and Tom would need to "light up a neon sign once they hook up again, flashing the message, "HA HA HERE WE ARE, SAFE FROM THE STUPID KLINGONS!!"" - but the knowledge that she's alive would reach the A-Quadrant, also where exactly she and Miral are to be found (i.e. coordinates of VOY)...

How? Like I said, the Klingons don't read the Voyager books (militant Janeway fans, the lot of them). So unless someone in the Voyager convoy is willing to accept thirty pieces of silver to send a specific message back to the AQ, the Klingons still think she's dead. Which means that, unless or until some SOB decides to betray them... the plan to fake her death worked.

But why should they keep quiet? Wouldn't it be interesting news to recover someone thought dead - especially if that someone were to rejoin the crew and perhaps even take over engineering at some point (or at least help by offering brilliant ideas)? As I said before, it's not as though it's only VOY, but also 8 other ships and commanding officers who give a damn about personal feelings or relationships, esp. Batiste.

Anyway, I'm willing to see where that plotthread goes, even though I think it was the weakest in the book.

And for the ongoing Janeway-discussion: Bringing her back would ruin the whole emotional impact of Full Circle. Of course, it's a sad and bitter ending to a would-be love story - and Full Circle managed for the first time in years to make me like Janeway even a bit. Nonetheless, I'd rather stick with the development of the other characters (when was the last time Chakotay was this "alive", even in the hours of his depression?) than getting her back just that some ruffled fan-feathers would be soothed.

 

[AuntKate]

And for the ongoing Janeway-discussion: Bringing her back would ruin the whole emotional impact of Full Circle. Of course, it's a sad and bitter ending to a would-be love story - and Full Circle managed for the first time in years to make me like Janeway even a bit. Nonetheless, I'd rather stick with the development of the other characters (when was the last time Chakotay was this "alive", even in the hours of his depression?) than getting her back just that some ruffled fan-feathers would be soothed.

Because those fans with the ruffled fan-feathers buy books, that's why. It's pretty obvious from the ongoing commentary that the Voyager fans around the world want Janeway to be included in the books and will be more likely to buy or continue to buy the books if she's there. She can return without damaging the emotional impact of Full Circle or hampering the development of any other character. In fact, her return might be even more heroic than her death--who knows? A good writer can make it work.

 

[DarKush]

I haven't been much of a fan of Janeway, or the Voyager crew for that matter. However, I agree that her return wouldn't ruin the emotional impact of Full Circle. It would perhaps add to the crew's character development. I mean it would be interesting to see what would happen if the crew had finally let her go and then she returns. Everyone's in a different place emotional & development wise so there's the potential for some good drama.

I feel mixed about bringing her back. I can understand why her fans want her back, or some might feel its sexist to kill off the only female lead from a series. Though there is Ezri, Eden, and Kira are prominent now, it's still not the same. So on one level I can sympathize with bringing Janeway back.

On the other hand, for creative reasons, I like that they decided to kill her off. The Voyager crew, and the Janeway scenes in FC never felt more alive or heartfelt to me, and they meant more to me because I knew what awaited her. And NEM had already removed Janeway from Voyager's bridge anyway. I like Eden and the other new characters more than the new TNG-R characters, and I like how their arrival has thrown curveballs at Tom and Harry particularly. It can lead to some good writing and drama on down the road.

 

[Yssgaroth]

Finished this a week or two ago, and absolutely loved it - one of the best works in the Trek universe. I haven't managed to grab the four post-finale books but Kirsten Beyer brought the 'newbie' up to speed with a minimum of fuss.

Voyager as a series for me was quite uneven, capable of some great moments but never quite realizing its full potential. The author takes the somewhat underdeveloped characters of the series and makes them work in a way that blew my mind - I can only imagine how the actors involved would have given for material like this.

Having read Destiny and the Voyager cameos involved, I was very interested to see how Kirsten Beyer would work within this framework. She has been very careful to fit everything together seamlessly while bringing something new and exciting to the table. But it is the characters that really bring Full Circle to life - and for me this is Chakotay's story.

I absolutely loved Chakotay descending into depression after the death of Janeway (a plot that has infuriated some fans I've become aware, but I love that the editors and writers of the range are shaking things up). I'm not sure if that makes me a sadist! A very Joss Whedon development to snatch happiness from Chakotay and Janeway just as they finally admit their feelings. Admit it Kirsten, you just love to make your characters suffer! I loved the decision that Chakotay takes at the end of the book, re-defining himself in a way that would have been unthinkable to the producers of the TV show. Walking away from Starfleet made sense, so kudos to the author for taking the logical step with this character.

The author shows a real gift for keeping the characters true to their TV identities, while expanding them realistically. From my point of view, there has been a real focus on the non-Starfleet aspect of Star Trek (e.g. Pennington and Quinn in Vanguard, A Singular Destiny), something very neglected in televised Trek where serving in Starfleet is often portrayed as the only worthwhile profession in the universe! Janeway remaining the 'mother' of the group - right to the end - is touching and poignant. Seven's continuing struggle with her identity, Tom's struggle to protect his family, even character development for Harry! For the first time in a long time, I care what happens to these characters.

At over 600 pages this book just comes across as simply epic. Re-invigorating the characters and storyline of Voyager was an unenviable task, and Kirsten Beyer has left me with only one major issue - I now have to wait until October to read Unworthy! Admit it Kirsten, you just love to make your readers suffer!

 

[Claudia]

And for the ongoing Janeway-discussion: Bringing her back would ruin the whole emotional impact of Full Circle. Of course, it's a sad and bitter ending to a would-be love story - and Full Circle managed for the first time in years to make me like Janeway even a bit. Nonetheless, I'd rather stick with the development of the other characters (when was the last time Chakotay was this "alive", even in the hours of his depression?) than getting her back just that some ruffled fan-feathers would be soothed.

Because those fans with the ruffled fan-feathers buy books, that's why. It's pretty obvious from the ongoing commentary that the Voyager fans around the world want Janeway to be included in the books and will be more likely to buy or continue to buy the books if she's there. She can return without damaging the emotional impact of Full Circle or hampering the development of any other character. In fact, her return might be even more heroic than her death--who knows? A good writer can make it work.

Maybe. But think of those who might get ruffled feathers by any miraculous resurrection and therefore might no longer buy ST-books...

IMO, FC offered some really great character development for Janeway, in that she made the decision to comit to a relationship with Chakotay - OTOH, I don't see the prospect of any *further* character development for her. Finally admitting her love for Chakotay was to me the final step for that character, the final puzzle piece that was left over from the end of the TV-series. I'm really grateful I got to read that - but ultimately, I think especially for Chakotay's development Janeway's death was necessary... and her story was told IMO. As harsh as it may sound.

And frankly, given B'Elanna's situation with her staged death I really don't need another character returning from real or staged death.

 

[Christopher]

Who says the Klingons have no interest in the D-Quadrant?

Hey, I didn't just assert that as a random statement -- I explained why it seems unlikely that they'd have an interest. I don't appreciate going to the trouble to construct a plausible case and then having every word of it ignored.

I'm sorry - but I just don't buy into that "case" you made. We are not talking about the random Klingon who indeed would focus on the rebuilding of his home, but a fanatic faction of them who certainly have their "agents" in the upper echelons of Klingon society (take f.e. the two servants of Kahless').

No, you're losing track of the conversation. The point I made was specifically in response to your assertion that the Klingon government would want to participate in the Delta Quadrant expedition (which would create an opportunity for the fanatics to infiltrate the mission). I was pointing out that the Klingon state has other priorities.

I think I can - because I meant that the government wouldn't necessarily be informed (which you even refuted!), but then there's something like an intelligence service certainly at work even on the Klingon side which could find that out. And to that I was refering.

Whatever. It's clear that you're determined to postulate whatever unlikely scenarios lead to the situation you fear, but that's paranoia, not rational analysis. Nobody's disputing that the situation you describe has a nonzero probability of occurrence, but that's not a useful argument to make. What matters is the question of probability -- whether the imagined risk is likely enough to be worth allocating a high priority to. My point is that the scenario is remote enough not to be a high-priority concern. Like I keep saying, don't borrow trouble. Don't manufacture excuses to worry about remote possibilities, because there are always more immediate concerns that your energies would be better devoted to.

And that's all I have to say on the subject.

 

[William Leisner]

It's not that B'Elanna and Tom would need to "light up a neon sign once they hook up again, flashing the message, "HA HA HERE WE ARE, SAFE FROM THE STUPID KLINGONS!!"" - but the knowledge that she's alive would reach the A-Quadrant, also where exactly she and Miral are to be found (i.e. coordinates of VOY)...

How? Like I said, the Klingons don't read the Voyager books (militant Janeway fans, the lot of them). So unless someone in the Voyager convoy is willing to accept thirty pieces of silver to send a specific message back to the AQ, the Klingons still think she's dead. Which means that, unless or until some SOB decides to betray them... the plan to fake her death worked.

But why should they keep quiet?

Uuuhhhh... because saying anything risks getting them killed?

Wouldn't it be interesting news to recover someone thought dead - especially if that someone were to rejoin the crew and perhaps even take over engineering at some point (or at least help by offering brilliant ideas)?

"Interesting," yes, but again -- the risk of getting people killed.

Let's put it in these terms: If you found out your best friend's cousin and her infant child were hiding at that friend's house because the Mob had a price on their heads... would you tell everyone at work and post it on line because it was "interesting"?

 

[kimc]

Maybe. But think of those who might get ruffled feathers by any miraculous resurrection and therefore might no longer buy ST-books...

Well if the other miraculous resurrections didn't get them ruffled then this one shouldn't either...

 

[Claudia]

But why should they keep quiet?

Uuuhhhh... because saying anything risks getting them killed?

Why? You and Christopher have spent lots and lots of time here to establish the fact that they are in the DQ, far from the Warriors who don't have slipstream-propulsion - therefore, who cares whether it becomes common knowledge in the AQ... Isn't it a bit contradictory to now claim that their lives are still at absolute risk?

And let's not split hair because of the choice of word - "interesting" might not be the one I've been looking for, but then again, it's a bit petty to ridicule a poor choice of words (by a non-native speaker BTW), when the meaning should be obvious.

I'm not arguing the fact that right now the Warriors are far away, the danger seems to be small - I'm arguing the futility of B'Elanna's plans, if the same could have been achieved without shocking everyone by her death.

Maybe. But think of those who might get ruffled feathers by any miraculous resurrection and therefore might no longer buy ST-books...

Well if the other miraculous resurrections didn't get them ruffled then this one shouldn't either...

Well, guess why I'm not reading ENT?

 

[William Leisner]

But why should they keep quiet?

Uuuhhhh... because saying anything risks getting them killed?

Why? You and Christopher have spent lots and lots of time here to establish the fact that they are in the DQ, far from the Warriors who don't have slipstream-propulsion - therefore, who cares whether it becomes common knowledge in the AQ... Isn't it a bit contradictory to now claim that their lives are still at absolute risk?

I said no such thing. And I'm pretty sure you're simplifying Christopher's words to the point where you're losing his meaning, but I'll leave that for him.

And let's not split hair because of the choice of word - "interesting" might not be the one I've been looking for, but then again, it's a bit petty to ridicule a poor choice of words (by a non-native speaker BTW), when the meaning should be obvious.

I had no idea that you were not a native speaker (and do take that as a compliment). Unfortunately, as a reader, I have to look at the words people use; the process of communication falls apart if I have to start double-guessing whether the words a writer uses are the ones they wanted to use, particularly when there's no reason to suspect that the writer doesn't know the language.

That said... the word choice is not what I was questioning, but the attitude. The idea that the friends of this couple, who are so in fear of her life and the life of their child that they would create this ruse... that the "friend" would for whatever reason dismiss those fears and betray their confidence. Even without the potential threat from the Klingons, what possible reason would such a friend have to turn around and send this news back to the AQ?

 

[neogothboy74]

And let's not split hair because of the choice of word - "interesting" might not be the one I've been looking for, but then again, it's a bit petty to ridicule a poor choice of words (by a non-native speaker BTW), when the meaning should be obvious.

The thing about online exchanges is that we have to go by whatever words are picked - and not presume that what might seem obvious for us is what the poster had intended. If we presumed that all the words that anyone chose were not the ones they intended then nothing that was said online could be taken seriously. So...while mistakes do happen, we can't presume in online discussions those kinds of mistakes have happened, until someone points out that they've made a mistake and then explains what they intended to say. So, the problem here isn't that someone was petty by criticizing your choice of words...it was that you didn't take the time to find the word you were looking for in the first place; no big; these things happen all the time. What is petty is when people make such mistakes and then insist that the misunderstandings that result are in any way the fault of those who read the words that were chosen and took them at face value. Misunderstandings happen. Communication is complicated. Peoples' feelings get ruffled and they sometimes think they're being attacked when they're not (though sometimes they are - did I mention that communication is complicated?) People ramble (that would be me). Everyone probably understand this already. End of story.

I still haven't started "Full Circle". I want to! But I'd still like to read the "A Time To..." books, "Articles of the Federation", "A Singular Destiny" & the new Titan novel, OaTS. I just haven't decided what I'm going to read next. And they all seem to tie into each other, so I'll probably read them in the order they take place. I know that parts of "Full Circle" take place first (I've looked at the dates throughout the book), but it ends in June 2381, before the bulk of OaTS which is mostly set between July 1 & August 4 2381. I'll stop rambling now. Forgive me. lol

 

[Defcon]

Maybe. But think of those who might get ruffled feathers by any miraculous resurrection and therefore might no longer buy ST-books...

Well if the other miraculous resurrections didn't get them ruffled then this one shouldn't either...

For some like me it would be the sum of "mistakes" that ruffles feathers. With me Margaret has already one strike against her for the awful Trip "resurrection" , another nonsesensical one (and any resurrection within such a short time after her death in story time would be nonsensical IMO) would be strike #2. Keeping with the Baseball analogy she would be very near to a strike out then.

 

[Kirsten Beyer]

Just finished enjoying the book and am already wanting more...In otherwords I'm eagerly looking forward to reading Unworthy.

Yeah! I'm so glad.

I understand Borath got the crap kicked out of it in "Left Hand of Darkness." I presume a lot of rebuilding?

This was mentioned in Spirit Walk, I think...

Yes, it was.

Has Captain Eden appeared before now, or is she original to Full Circle? If there are any prelude stories, I'd love to read 'em.

She's a new character.

What Christopher said.

Janeway is my favourite character in Trek and yet her death wasn't a dealbreaker for me to read Full Circle - I was very excited for the book and enjoyed it very much, as heartbreaking as it was. C/7, however, would be.

I'm really glad you enjoyed it. As for your other worries...one of these days you guys are going to start trusting me, right?

It took me ages to work out where I'd read B'Elanna's "faking her death" story before, when I finally remembered ENT's relaunch with Trip. It was as illogical here as it was there.

Sorry that didn't work for you.

That said, it was a good read...PS. Particular praise to Chakotay's storyline (and the Lost quotage!) and a quick question: Will Montgomery ever get around to reading Cambridge's official evaluation?

Thanks, and I would assume so.

Re: B'Elanna faking her death, keeping secrets from her friends, acting over-the-top, etc:

In the course of the tv series, B'Elanna almost always acted first, before thinking things through. She got better as time passed, but, I think, with the safety of her child at stake, she would be twice as likely to revert back to her old ways. When she was on Voyager, she was surrounded by people who anchored her and tempered her temper (as it were.) She was acting on her own gut feelings in this situation. When the constant arguing with her didn't accomplish anything, Tom reached the point where he knew he had to sit back and let her play it through her way.

This is exactly how I see it and if you end up reading Unworthy I'd like you to remember that I completed that manuscript long before I ever read these words. It's like you were reading my notes.

I taught at St. James from 1982 - 93. We fed into Mount St. Mary's (wooooo, crosstown rivalry!)

I've got feelers out on the pharmacy/hamburger joint. I'll find it, or at least where it was.

Thanks for the link. St. James...get out! Let me know what you find. It has to be gone by now. I just remember you could turn right just past it and be headed toward McGuinness. There was a bridge you passed under on the way that we always used to paint before football games...and opposing teams always tried to beat us to it.

Wow...the fun part of high school is coming back to me now.

^ If that was the case, why didn't Tom, B'Elanna and Miral just take the slipstream shuttle straight there instead of making everyone think she's dead?

Claudia...I'm going to respond here, even though I know you've said much more on the subject as this has gone along.

First off, if that aspect of the story doesn't work for you...fair enough. Everyone isn't going to like everything.

I would, however, say that my reading of your thoughts, like Rowan's quote above is missing a vital piece of this puzzle.

You guys are assuming that both Tom and B'Elanna knew at some point way before they did that Voyager was going back to the DQ. Parts of the plan...exactly when B'Elanna would release the debris and where exactly she and Tom would meet, were not set before B'Elanna launched. This is why it was necessary for Kahless to continue to act as a go-between for their communications. She armed her shuttle with a working slipstream drive because if you could...why the hell wouldn't you? Being able to escape any attacker with only warp drive is a much better weapon than anything she could carry in a ship that small. She didn't construct the drive, knowing where she would end up. B'Elanna launched her shuttle and was on the run long before the Borg attack. Then it was up to Tom to watch for a moment when faking their deaths might make the most sense. After that, he always planned to join them, and if she couldn't have gotten her ship to the DQ, he would have left Voyager before the fleet launched. But she can. And this way, it looks like they died and he's just continuing on with his career.

Bottom line, they didn't just get together and go to the DQ because they couldn't see the future. They were making it up as best they could as they went along.

I don't expect you'll like the story more now, but that's what I was thinking when I wrote it.

Because if they believe she's dead, they'll stop looking for her.

But that's exactly what would be revealed were she to reappear.

It's only "revealed" if the Klingons are reading the Voyager books.

And THAT was just funny.

Man of Steel....you've already got some great answers to your questions but I'll fill in a few more.

Why does it take halfway through the book for Chakotey to admit he was in love with Janeway when we, as viewers and readers sorta knew this already?

Because that's how it works in life. We all know stuff about ourselves long before we find the courage to act on that knowledge.

2) Chakotey should have realized himself that he wasn't fit for command early on instead of having us sit through till the end for him to realize this. It just seems like it drags on till the Epilogue. He needed closure yes but couldn't you have done it earlier? Is Starfleet that oblivious that they couldn't see it right away? And what will happen to him now that he retired? Will Starfleet let him off the hook that easily?

He didn't actually realize he wasn't fit for command. Both he and Cambridge agreed at the end of their session that he was, in fact, ready to return to work. But by that time it was too late. What Chakotay actually realized in the Epilogue was the he couldn't do what he needed to do at that point for Seven, and still serve actively in Starfleet. So he resigned. To find out how this plays out....you have to read Unworthy.

5) So Kerovi is mentioned and we find out about the mission and why it's urgent and then the story takes a 180 to tell us about a mother/daughter story and Chakotey.. and Kerovi appears again later briefly... Again, why can't Starfleet order them to go and they don't even get punished?

I think we've seen time and again that captains get a little lattitude for their own discretion. Put it this way...Starfleet send you on a mission and along the way you encounter a hostile alien that could destroy the Federation. Do you think you'd be in trouble for not following your original orders if you stopped and dealt with that threat? Chakotay did what he had to do...keeping his superior officer informed as the mission developed and the price he paid for that was not punishment, but growing doubts about his ability to separate his personal and professional issue when making a tough judgment call.

7) Why doesn't Admiral Montgomery or Batiste order Seven to accompany Voyager seeing as she used to be a Borg? Would make sense right?

Seven has never accepted a commision with Starfleet. They have no authority to order her to do anything. That's why Eden asks nicely for her to join the mission, but has no recourse when Seven refuses.

Aside from my comments, this was an excellent read and I enjoyed it immensly as I did your last one. In fact, your part of the String Theory was the best out of the other two so I was glad that my second book of yours didn't dissapoint as well and I look forward to reading Unworthy six months from now and any other Trek you may brewing on the horizon.

Many thanks.

Beyer does a very great job at finishing up Christie Golden's ideas and her own story ISABO´S SHIRT and she greatly improves upon it. This is the re-launch novel that Voyager fans have really been waiting for.
I have to say right here and now that I hope that every VOYAGER book from here on out is written by Kirsten Beyer.

Thanks. That's very kind of you.

I must say how deeply disappointed I was about the death of Janeway. ...What is he/ are you trying to achieve by that? Sales promotion? Hurting the fans loving her? Is VOYAGER´S lobby too small or too weak?

I'm sorry to hear that but the answer to your question is none of the above. Allowing Janeway to die and exploring fully the impact of her death was intended to enable us to tell the best and most compelling story possible. You certainly have the right to disagree with that choice, but it was made only in the interest of story. Absolutely nothing else.

I must say how surprised I was that Janeway’s friends and former crewmates are only deeply saddened and depressed over Janeway's disappearance. But is she really dead? They didn’t find her corpse! Why didn’t they look for her, fight for her?

Becase the cube that assimilated her was destroyed while she was on it and Seven was in some sort of telepathic communication with her at the moment of her death. There was nothing to look for or fight for. They would have had no reason to believe she wasn't dead.

I’m very worried about VOYAGER’S future. VOYAGER without Janeway doesn’t work!

I respectfully suggest to you that whether or not Voyager can work without Janeway remains to be seen. I know you are not alone in your personal preference and as I have said many times, there is no way to know right now what the future holds beyond Unworthy.

Dear Mrs. Beyer, I would be very grateful to get an answer to my posting. Thank you.

And now you have!

I finished this book yesterday. Mrs. Beyer did something I thought impossible: she made me like the Voyager crew.
...I'm willing to at least give Unworthy a shot and if that's good, stick with the VOY-R as long as Beyer is writing it...The VOY-R is now in the driver's seat of the various Trek series for making bold decisions regarding character development/changes. I'm interested to see where Mrs. Beyer will take the reconstitued crew.

Thanks so much! That is high praise, especially from someone who started the story withough much fondness for the characters. I hope you enjoy Unworthy.

Finished this a week or two ago, and absolutely loved it - one of the best works in the Trek universe.

You are very kind. Thanks!

Admit it Kirsten, you just love to make your characters suffer!

I love giving my characters obstacles that are so large, they doubt their ability to overcome them. Usually that involves suffering. But I also love when they've grown and learned from those experiences and get to enjoy the fruits of their victories.

Admit it Kirsten, you just love to make your readers suffer!

Okay...yeah...you got me there.

Thanks again for posting your thoughts. Very nice to hear.

Best,
Kirsten

 

[William Leisner]

...one of these days you guys are going to start trusting me, right?

 

[Judith Sisko]

(One of these days, I'm going to learn how to use this quote and multi-quote thing.)

This is exactly how I see it and if you end up reading Unworthy I'd like you to remember that I completed that manuscript long before I ever read these words. It's like you were reading my notes.

It must be the Okie vibes... or maybe the parochial school influence? I also have a theory about Harry Kim, but I'm waiting for someone else to mention him first.

And I have every intention of reading Unworthy.

Thanks for the link. St. James...get out! Let me know what you find. It has to be gone by now. I just remember you could turn right just past it and be headed toward McGuinness. There was a bridge you passed under on the way that we always used to paint before football games...and opposing teams always tried to beat us to it.

Wow...the fun part of high school is coming back to me now.

Alas, the bridge is gone. It was quite the media event when it came down.