Clearly I need to read Distant Shores...
Full Circle Review Thread (Spoilers)
- Thread starter Kirsten Beyer
- Start date
So Kirsten, will the series actually be following crewmembers on ships other than Voyager then? I haven't read FC so I don't know the details, but I had figured that the books would still focus on Voyager, with other ships and characters being mentioned and maybe seen a few times. Kinda like how they did things on the nBSG.
Preferably, a transfer to jail. For life.
They were following orders and trying to get home far faster than their ikkle science ship could manage, plus they didn't have a very nice time before they started using those aliens as fuel, so they were desperate to return home - even more so than Voyager, so life in jail is a little harsh, hell, maybe Janeway's punishment was enough for Starfleet Command to accept all of their resignations and then live a life away from the fleet.
Read it, liked it. Didn't really like the TV series, and never read any of the novels up until this point. For me, the 1st half of the book wasn't too interesting, with the tying up of loose ends of some story I knew nothing about, more stuff with Klingons, and characters I don't recognize.
The 2nd half was goo. Characters seeme to be moving on the blanks were filled in over time. The new characters (Cambridge and Eden) seemed well introduced and built up. My only quibble is the 2nd half really didn't feel like a story but more of an extended exposition with setting up the new mission.
That said, I'm glad all the setup was done here. I'm excited with this new and unique direction Voyager is taking and look forward to 'Unworthy'
The 2nd half was goo. Characters seeme to be moving on the blanks were filled in over time. The new characters (Cambridge and Eden) seemed well introduced and built up. My only quibble is the 2nd half really didn't feel like a story but more of an extended exposition with setting up the new mission.
That said, I'm glad all the setup was done here. I'm excited with this new and unique direction Voyager is taking and look forward to 'Unworthy'
I can’t, in all honesty, say that I’m a happy Voyager fan. I haven’t been a happy Voyager fan for years – not since around season 7. But I can say that I’m now a cautiously optimistic Voyager fan, and I think that’s a pretty good accomplishment for one book.
Full Circle was a pleasant surprise. I admit that I’d read quite a few reviews before deciding to part with my hard-earned cash, so had expected something decent, but it turned out to be better than I expected. It’s the first step in undoing the damage that’s been done to the characters and the franchise. Bad plot points are being buried left, right and centre (the changeling, the laughable wider holographic rights issue), annoying and poorly-drawn charactes dumped, and we’re getting the crew back into the Delta Quadrant - more or less.
Characterisations ranged from decent to excellent. Beyer is the first author in quite some time to make me care, in even the smallest measure, about Chakotay, a character who tops my list of Voyager characters I’d most like to shove out an airlock (beating even Neelix). And, as a massive fan of the Doctor, I was thrilled beyond measure to see him get out of that damn think tank and meet Zimmerman again – it always struck me as incredibly wrong that he didn’t head straight back to Jupiter Station as soon as he was able. And using Zimmerman to openly address the Doctor’s stagnation as a character was brilliant.
B’Elanna and Tom I have more issue with – even with B’Elanna’s sense of isolation, I have trouble accepting that neither of them would enlist the help of their best friends and closest colleagues, particularly Harry. And everyone seems to have forgotten that the Doc is Miral’s godfather – he’d want to play an active role in her life, parents' wishes be damned. I mean, it’s not bad – both sound like themselves, and there is a fair amount to support their actions in the story, and I could see this kinda happening as a later-season Voyager story - but it really doesn’t sit right that they would shut everyone out and then hurt them so very badly, even if only for a while. I’ll wait to see how it wraps up before deciding if it was a plot point worth continuing with.
Harry... Harry, felt non-existent in this book. The thing with Libby was a bit 'haven’t they already done this?', and other than, that, I can’t really think of a scene where he shined. The same, though to a rather lesser extent, was the case with the Doctor, who had some nice moments but felt underutilised. I admit, however, to being highly biased in this case - I have a terrible tendency to judge Voyager novels by how much page-time he gets.
The book does suffer from being written as two and then sandwiched together; it’s at times awkward and poorly paced, and very obviously still wants to be two books. I also felt that so much time was spent with Chakotay and Seven dwelling on Janeway’s death that I never really got a sense of how it affected the rest of the crew – or if it affected them at all. And, really, I think that the book, in many respects, hangs very much on your interest in and empathy with Chakotay. As this is a commodity I possess little of, generally speaking, parts of it were hard going.
All in all, though, a definite step in the right direction. I’m actually interested to see where things end up, and what new (and old) perils the Delta Quadrant brings. I’m hoping for post-phage Vidiians and more of the EMH and Reg Barclay, while at the same time being worried that the EMV is going to be the scene for Wacky Hijinks and (groan) more holorights nonsense.
Finally, to weigh in on the Before Dishonour thing... I think most of the ire over Janeway’s death is due to Voyager fans feeling as though they’ve been given short shrift by the Pocket PTB. Full Circle, for those who read it, is a step towards addressing that, but, for many, I think it will be ‘too little, too late’. It wasn’t just that she was killed off on a TNG novel, but it was done when Voyager hadn’t had a ‘current continuity’ novel literally for years and had no publically known prospect of one.
The characters have had little to no chance to help shape the events that now rule how they must be written, and now must scramble to catch up. There is the sense that every time that they have been used, it’s been purely to further the plot of another series and another set of characters, with little regard to the Voyager franchise and fans thereof. If you follow that line of reasoning, it’s not hard to see why some think that Janeway was killed purely so they didn’t have to kill a TNG character (or even keep Data dead), or because they couldn’t think of a way to use her alive. I mean, it has taken well over a year for the death of a central character to be dealt with by said character’s home franchise. That rankles me far more than her death itself does.
It’s not Beyer’s fault in any way, shape or form, but it’s certainly a problem of Pocket’s making.
Full Circle was a pleasant surprise. I admit that I’d read quite a few reviews before deciding to part with my hard-earned cash, so had expected something decent, but it turned out to be better than I expected. It’s the first step in undoing the damage that’s been done to the characters and the franchise. Bad plot points are being buried left, right and centre (the changeling, the laughable wider holographic rights issue), annoying and poorly-drawn charactes dumped, and we’re getting the crew back into the Delta Quadrant - more or less.
Characterisations ranged from decent to excellent. Beyer is the first author in quite some time to make me care, in even the smallest measure, about Chakotay, a character who tops my list of Voyager characters I’d most like to shove out an airlock (beating even Neelix). And, as a massive fan of the Doctor, I was thrilled beyond measure to see him get out of that damn think tank and meet Zimmerman again – it always struck me as incredibly wrong that he didn’t head straight back to Jupiter Station as soon as he was able. And using Zimmerman to openly address the Doctor’s stagnation as a character was brilliant.
B’Elanna and Tom I have more issue with – even with B’Elanna’s sense of isolation, I have trouble accepting that neither of them would enlist the help of their best friends and closest colleagues, particularly Harry. And everyone seems to have forgotten that the Doc is Miral’s godfather – he’d want to play an active role in her life, parents' wishes be damned. I mean, it’s not bad – both sound like themselves, and there is a fair amount to support their actions in the story, and I could see this kinda happening as a later-season Voyager story - but it really doesn’t sit right that they would shut everyone out and then hurt them so very badly, even if only for a while. I’ll wait to see how it wraps up before deciding if it was a plot point worth continuing with.
Harry... Harry, felt non-existent in this book. The thing with Libby was a bit 'haven’t they already done this?', and other than, that, I can’t really think of a scene where he shined. The same, though to a rather lesser extent, was the case with the Doctor, who had some nice moments but felt underutilised. I admit, however, to being highly biased in this case - I have a terrible tendency to judge Voyager novels by how much page-time he gets.
The book does suffer from being written as two and then sandwiched together; it’s at times awkward and poorly paced, and very obviously still wants to be two books. I also felt that so much time was spent with Chakotay and Seven dwelling on Janeway’s death that I never really got a sense of how it affected the rest of the crew – or if it affected them at all. And, really, I think that the book, in many respects, hangs very much on your interest in and empathy with Chakotay. As this is a commodity I possess little of, generally speaking, parts of it were hard going.
All in all, though, a definite step in the right direction. I’m actually interested to see where things end up, and what new (and old) perils the Delta Quadrant brings. I’m hoping for post-phage Vidiians and more of the EMH and Reg Barclay, while at the same time being worried that the EMV is going to be the scene for Wacky Hijinks and (groan) more holorights nonsense.
Finally, to weigh in on the Before Dishonour thing... I think most of the ire over Janeway’s death is due to Voyager fans feeling as though they’ve been given short shrift by the Pocket PTB. Full Circle, for those who read it, is a step towards addressing that, but, for many, I think it will be ‘too little, too late’. It wasn’t just that she was killed off on a TNG novel, but it was done when Voyager hadn’t had a ‘current continuity’ novel literally for years and had no publically known prospect of one.
The characters have had little to no chance to help shape the events that now rule how they must be written, and now must scramble to catch up. There is the sense that every time that they have been used, it’s been purely to further the plot of another series and another set of characters, with little regard to the Voyager franchise and fans thereof. If you follow that line of reasoning, it’s not hard to see why some think that Janeway was killed purely so they didn’t have to kill a TNG character (or even keep Data dead), or because they couldn’t think of a way to use her alive. I mean, it has taken well over a year for the death of a central character to be dealt with by said character’s home franchise. That rankles me far more than her death itself does.
It’s not Beyer’s fault in any way, shape or form, but it’s certainly a problem of Pocket’s making.
Finally can make some comments myself. Been reading the book nonstop almost for the past week/weekend. Started once I read both Spirit Walk books since I never got them til recently. I have to say what a great book so far. I have enjoyed the flashback from Chakotay so far. I'm almost finished with the book. I have to say great tie in into the Destiny trilogy.
Just one question, wasn't Oden an character from the Elite Force games? I'm only asking since I have been getting more involved with that since the comic came out all those years ago and I thought I remembered reading on Memory Beta that was a character. Might be wrong.
I was thinking the other night, what if the series had Voyager get back to the Alpha Quadrant early and this was some storyline for half the final season? I remembered way back reading one of the Star Trek magazines that something along those lines was discussed once DS9 finished but that never happened. But I still think it would have been a great story to have seen on tv.
Just one question, wasn't Oden an character from the Elite Force games? I'm only asking since I have been getting more involved with that since the comic came out all those years ago and I thought I remembered reading on Memory Beta that was a character. Might be wrong.
I was thinking the other night, what if the series had Voyager get back to the Alpha Quadrant early and this was some storyline for half the final season? I remembered way back reading one of the Star Trek magazines that something along those lines was discussed once DS9 finished but that never happened. But I still think it would have been a great story to have seen on tv.
I just wanted to say thanks. And I'm saying this as a J/C fan too. I think you nailed their relationship (however brief) I never read BD because of KJ's death so thank you for justifying her death. I LOVED Phoebe's speech at her memorial. That alone made KJ's death acceptable to me.
A lot of my review points were already mentioned by Thrawn way back on page 2/3.
So I enjoyed reading your responses to his points.
I felt really bad for Seven. The thought of her being utterly alone on Earth scared me, so I'm glad Chakotay is staying with her. I did have one question about her Aunt: Was her illness mentioned in another book previously? It seemed like an abrupt turn for her.
Thanks again. I can't wait to get Unworthy!
A lot of my review points were already mentioned by Thrawn way back on page 2/3.
So I enjoyed reading your responses to his points.
I felt really bad for Seven. The thought of her being utterly alone on Earth scared me, so I'm glad Chakotay is staying with her. I did have one question about her Aunt: Was her illness mentioned in another book previously? It seemed like an abrupt turn for her.
Thanks again. I can't wait to get Unworthy!
Last edited:
I finished this last night and for the most part I really really liked it. I had the whole gamut of these reactions thoughout: 
I don't overly like doing reviews (though I have in the past) but I'm going to attempt it due to the biggness of this story and in part to add my opinion to the many that have discussed the future of Voyager on this BBS. Spoilers abound, but this is the review thread so that is to be expected.
I went into this story with some trepidation. Not, however, due to my disagreement with the fact that Janeway dies, but due to the fact that this book covers so much time. I've read many books that cover a large span of time and the vast majority of them don't do such a thing well. Full Circle, however did this absolutely phenomenally. I didn't feel like anything was missed, rushed or forced into the book. I thoroughly enjoyed the way it was organized with the jumping around and telling some of the story in real-time and telling other parts of it in flash-backs that linked back to the real-time events. That allowed things that were supposed to be a surprise to the read to actually be a surprise in a way that didn't require (what comes across in other books as forced) a random chapter of events you don't care at all about. Very very nicely done Kirsten.
The B'Elanna arc: I've seen here where a lot of people think that her actions were overreactions. I have to disagree with that from a parent's perspective. From an outside rational human being perspective, yes they were, however as a father of a 1 year old, if I knew for a fact that there was a faction of people hell-bent on murdering her (regardless of how technologically unadvanced they are) I would absolutely take literally whatever measures are necessary to prevent them from EVER finding or even seeking her again up to and including faking deaths and moving ridiculously far away to live there forever, and yes even if that meant hurting the feelings of everyone else I loved by making them also think they were dead. It's a "my kid's life and happiness trumps all" kind of thing. There was one minor thing that I felt was a bit off though, it was with Tuvok. When he went to obtain the Bat'leth from that woman. He struck me as quite a bit out of character with his quickness to mind meld and destroy her mental state like that. He didn't even entertain other options for trying to get out of the situation, he just went straight to mind rape and didn't seem to care much afterward.
Continuity: One thing I wasn't at all happy about was what (to me) came across as an unceremonious dumping of all of Christie Golden's characters and plot lines. Astall was dismissed in a single sentence. Yes, I know the character was a bit annoying but Cambridge wasn't at all better IMO. Kaz, who I thought was actually going to get to be apart of the story was then killed suddenly (both he and his symbiont) and he only got one mention of remorse later. Then the whole changeling thing and Kerovi was quickly wrapped up "off-screen" with Chakotay in text basically saying that it wasn't important anyway. Libby just up and quits SI and dumps Harry. Seven and the Doc both quit the "Federation Think Tank." I realize many of the folks here who hated the first 4 books of the Relaunch will be ecstatic about all of these events, I am not.
Chakotay: This poor bastard. Wow. I loved almost everything about the entire story of Chakotay right up until the very end where he did something I thought was silly. Quitting Starfleet for what appeared to be no discernible reason. There are any number of reasons I can think of that would have made Chakotay want or even be better off without Starfleet, however none of those seemed to be the point. In fact, at that point in his recovery it seemed more that he was much better equipped and willing to handle being a Starfleet captain. But Chakotay's mourning of Janeway and his love for her and his subsequent recovery which allowed him to better take the news of Miral and B'Elanna's apparent deaths and the verbal beat down he got from a very emotional Seven was so well written that I had forgotten how much I usually hate that sort of thing. So great job on that too.
Captain Eden: She hasn't grown on me yet. I don't dislike her but I don't like her either. She still feels to me like nothing more than a replacement Captain. Though I will say I am quite intrigued by the artifact that she recognized and could read and where that story might lead. I hold pretty high hopes for that one and this could very well cause the character to become more in my eyes.
Admiral Batiste: He also hasn't really grown on me, in fact he's pissed me off pretty well. However he does NOT strike me as any sort of replacement Admiral (for Janeway). Kirsten said in one of the numerous Janeway threads that Janeway couldn't have replaced Batiste in this role. I fully agree. For Janeway to have been in that Admiral position even if still alive would have been too ridiculous for words.
Voyager's new mission: This one I am torn on. From a more objective perspective I totally see the story potential here. I see and understand the in-universe reasoning for it all. I even like what is happening. However, I think it is wildly out of character for ANY of the original Voyager crew (except Tom & B'Elanna -- but that only because of the whole subterfuge they're pulling with B'Elanna and Miral) to voluntarily go back to the Delta Quadrant after all they had been through there. I am curious however, that toward the end B'Elanna was under the impression that Tom was going to settle down on a planet with her, implying that he was going to quit being 1st officer of Voyager. That could be interesting, if a little boring as far as his and B'Elanna's characters go.
Seven: After the Destiny Trilogy, I didn't think I'd like the post-Caeliar Seven. I do, very much. I like that she is now sort of trying to keep some of her Borg "heritage" and looks upon that as a gift rather than a hindrance. Her humanity is now emerging a bit too rapidly for her tastes and she wants (needs?) the calm collected organization that her highly efficient Borg implants granted her. One thing I couldn't help but notice was the paragraph that seems to be a huge foreshadowing of the upcoming Unworthy. Where she is talking about the lone voice in her head that she attributes to the Caeliar and her insistence that they have deemed her 'unworthy' of being apart of their collective.
Cambridge: I don't like this character one bit. The problem, though is he reminds me of myself a bit too much. One problem I have though is that he (unlike myself) decided to join a military (or military-like if you will) organization that has a clear command structure where said structure demands automatic obedience and respect. This seems to be something neither he, nor I, can tolerate. While he's very good at what he does, he's too blunt and too straight forward with his commanding officers, to a point of coming off as more of an asshole than is necessary. All of this describes me too. However one thing I differ on and I'd think he (as a counselor) would recognize this is that when you find someone you do actually respect and like you at least try not to rub them the wrong way by being a prick.
Admiral Montgomery (and Batiste): Yet again the admiralty is made to appear to be composed of bumbling idiots. This does not please me and in particular due to various comments made here about how difficult it is to give Admiral Janeway good stories as a desk-bound pencil pusher. So far Trek (both screen and novels) have mostly had Admirals do or give orders that are mind numbingly dumb. Necheyev in TNG was a moron, she was too heavy handed in Genesis Wave and again an idiot in A Time To. Ross wasn't too bright in DS9 what with the way he was easily manipulated by S31 which continued into the A Time To Series. I don't recall Akaar in Titan but I don't remember having too high an opinion of him either. Then Before Dishonor comes along and the Admiralty is just completely bonkers in that situation -- including Janeway. Necheyev finally comes to her senses in Greater than the Sum. Then in comes Batiste and Montgomery eaves dropping on a counseling session that is supposed to decide the fate of the counseled. But these two morons go and decide before the session is even over and without seeing all of it that they've decided already what to do. And proceeds to ignore the recommendations of the trained professional who was there and witnessed ALL of the session. Seriously, the mind boggles at how Starfleet has survived as long as they have with such stupid leadership. If Janeway was going to be written in the same manner as other Admirals, I'm glad she's dead so as not to suffer that terrible fate.
In conclusion, while I have made a lot of negative comments here, I very much did enjoy this book and look forward to Unworthy. How? you might ask did I enjoy this with so many negative comments about it? Kirsten herself said it best in her interview from another thread: "Where I part ways with these fans, both as a reader and a writer however, is in the assumption that a story featuring plot or character developments I don’t like will automatically result in something I cannot imagine enjoying reading or watching." I agree with this fully. While there are many developments I disagree with I do have the capacity to accept them as they are and move on to enjoy what has become of the Voyager characters.
All in all a good book! I'd rank it as the best of the 5 so far (and I did like the previous 4.)
I don't overly like doing reviews (though I have in the past) but I'm going to attempt it due to the biggness of this story and in part to add my opinion to the many that have discussed the future of Voyager on this BBS. Spoilers abound, but this is the review thread so that is to be expected.
I went into this story with some trepidation. Not, however, due to my disagreement with the fact that Janeway dies, but due to the fact that this book covers so much time. I've read many books that cover a large span of time and the vast majority of them don't do such a thing well. Full Circle, however did this absolutely phenomenally. I didn't feel like anything was missed, rushed or forced into the book. I thoroughly enjoyed the way it was organized with the jumping around and telling some of the story in real-time and telling other parts of it in flash-backs that linked back to the real-time events. That allowed things that were supposed to be a surprise to the read to actually be a surprise in a way that didn't require (what comes across in other books as forced) a random chapter of events you don't care at all about. Very very nicely done Kirsten.
The B'Elanna arc: I've seen here where a lot of people think that her actions were overreactions. I have to disagree with that from a parent's perspective. From an outside rational human being perspective, yes they were, however as a father of a 1 year old, if I knew for a fact that there was a faction of people hell-bent on murdering her (regardless of how technologically unadvanced they are) I would absolutely take literally whatever measures are necessary to prevent them from EVER finding or even seeking her again up to and including faking deaths and moving ridiculously far away to live there forever, and yes even if that meant hurting the feelings of everyone else I loved by making them also think they were dead. It's a "my kid's life and happiness trumps all" kind of thing. There was one minor thing that I felt was a bit off though, it was with Tuvok. When he went to obtain the Bat'leth from that woman. He struck me as quite a bit out of character with his quickness to mind meld and destroy her mental state like that. He didn't even entertain other options for trying to get out of the situation, he just went straight to mind rape and didn't seem to care much afterward.
Continuity: One thing I wasn't at all happy about was what (to me) came across as an unceremonious dumping of all of Christie Golden's characters and plot lines. Astall was dismissed in a single sentence. Yes, I know the character was a bit annoying but Cambridge wasn't at all better IMO. Kaz, who I thought was actually going to get to be apart of the story was then killed suddenly (both he and his symbiont) and he only got one mention of remorse later. Then the whole changeling thing and Kerovi was quickly wrapped up "off-screen" with Chakotay in text basically saying that it wasn't important anyway. Libby just up and quits SI and dumps Harry. Seven and the Doc both quit the "Federation Think Tank." I realize many of the folks here who hated the first 4 books of the Relaunch will be ecstatic about all of these events, I am not.
Chakotay: This poor bastard. Wow. I loved almost everything about the entire story of Chakotay right up until the very end where he did something I thought was silly. Quitting Starfleet for what appeared to be no discernible reason. There are any number of reasons I can think of that would have made Chakotay want or even be better off without Starfleet, however none of those seemed to be the point. In fact, at that point in his recovery it seemed more that he was much better equipped and willing to handle being a Starfleet captain. But Chakotay's mourning of Janeway and his love for her and his subsequent recovery which allowed him to better take the news of Miral and B'Elanna's apparent deaths and the verbal beat down he got from a very emotional Seven was so well written that I had forgotten how much I usually hate that sort of thing. So great job on that too.
Captain Eden: She hasn't grown on me yet. I don't dislike her but I don't like her either. She still feels to me like nothing more than a replacement Captain. Though I will say I am quite intrigued by the artifact that she recognized and could read and where that story might lead. I hold pretty high hopes for that one and this could very well cause the character to become more in my eyes.
Admiral Batiste: He also hasn't really grown on me, in fact he's pissed me off pretty well. However he does NOT strike me as any sort of replacement Admiral (for Janeway). Kirsten said in one of the numerous Janeway threads that Janeway couldn't have replaced Batiste in this role. I fully agree. For Janeway to have been in that Admiral position even if still alive would have been too ridiculous for words.
Voyager's new mission: This one I am torn on. From a more objective perspective I totally see the story potential here. I see and understand the in-universe reasoning for it all. I even like what is happening. However, I think it is wildly out of character for ANY of the original Voyager crew (except Tom & B'Elanna -- but that only because of the whole subterfuge they're pulling with B'Elanna and Miral) to voluntarily go back to the Delta Quadrant after all they had been through there. I am curious however, that toward the end B'Elanna was under the impression that Tom was going to settle down on a planet with her, implying that he was going to quit being 1st officer of Voyager. That could be interesting, if a little boring as far as his and B'Elanna's characters go.
Seven: After the Destiny Trilogy, I didn't think I'd like the post-Caeliar Seven. I do, very much. I like that she is now sort of trying to keep some of her Borg "heritage" and looks upon that as a gift rather than a hindrance. Her humanity is now emerging a bit too rapidly for her tastes and she wants (needs?) the calm collected organization that her highly efficient Borg implants granted her. One thing I couldn't help but notice was the paragraph that seems to be a huge foreshadowing of the upcoming Unworthy. Where she is talking about the lone voice in her head that she attributes to the Caeliar and her insistence that they have deemed her 'unworthy' of being apart of their collective.
Cambridge: I don't like this character one bit. The problem, though is he reminds me of myself a bit too much. One problem I have though is that he (unlike myself) decided to join a military (or military-like if you will) organization that has a clear command structure where said structure demands automatic obedience and respect. This seems to be something neither he, nor I, can tolerate. While he's very good at what he does, he's too blunt and too straight forward with his commanding officers, to a point of coming off as more of an asshole than is necessary. All of this describes me too. However one thing I differ on and I'd think he (as a counselor) would recognize this is that when you find someone you do actually respect and like you at least try not to rub them the wrong way by being a prick.
Admiral Montgomery (and Batiste): Yet again the admiralty is made to appear to be composed of bumbling idiots. This does not please me and in particular due to various comments made here about how difficult it is to give Admiral Janeway good stories as a desk-bound pencil pusher. So far Trek (both screen and novels) have mostly had Admirals do or give orders that are mind numbingly dumb. Necheyev in TNG was a moron, she was too heavy handed in Genesis Wave and again an idiot in A Time To. Ross wasn't too bright in DS9 what with the way he was easily manipulated by S31 which continued into the A Time To Series. I don't recall Akaar in Titan but I don't remember having too high an opinion of him either. Then Before Dishonor comes along and the Admiralty is just completely bonkers in that situation -- including Janeway. Necheyev finally comes to her senses in Greater than the Sum. Then in comes Batiste and Montgomery eaves dropping on a counseling session that is supposed to decide the fate of the counseled. But these two morons go and decide before the session is even over and without seeing all of it that they've decided already what to do. And proceeds to ignore the recommendations of the trained professional who was there and witnessed ALL of the session. Seriously, the mind boggles at how Starfleet has survived as long as they have with such stupid leadership. If Janeway was going to be written in the same manner as other Admirals, I'm glad she's dead so as not to suffer that terrible fate.
In conclusion, while I have made a lot of negative comments here, I very much did enjoy this book and look forward to Unworthy. How? you might ask did I enjoy this with so many negative comments about it? Kirsten herself said it best in her interview from another thread: "Where I part ways with these fans, both as a reader and a writer however, is in the assumption that a story featuring plot or character developments I don’t like will automatically result in something I cannot imagine enjoying reading or watching." I agree with this fully. While there are many developments I disagree with I do have the capacity to accept them as they are and move on to enjoy what has become of the Voyager characters.
All in all a good book! I'd rank it as the best of the 5 so far (and I did like the previous 4.)
I have to say, VOY new mission is a smart decision. If VOY is in the AQ with the rest of the ships, then it just gets lost in the mix, but now it will have a unique flavor when you read it; like Titan.
I was thinking about the Seven story and it seems like her humanity is trying to reassert itself after its long absents. She was still living as a borg, even after being separated from the collective, and continuing to stifle her humanity. Now there is only Annika and that part of her is trying to win out, so to say.
I was thinking about the Seven story and it seems like her humanity is trying to reassert itself after its long absents. She was still living as a borg, even after being separated from the collective, and continuing to stifle her humanity. Now there is only Annika and that part of her is trying to win out, so to say.
They're serial killers, no better than the guards at Buchenwald. They should consider themselves lucky if they don't see the same four walls for the rest of their miserable lives.
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
I think at the very least they are no longer in Starfleet. At worst they are in jail for the foreseeable future.
I really wanted to spread this book over a longer period of time, but like most here, once I started I couldnt put it down. And I will echo most posters in that I really like this book, even with the 2 books smashed into 1 thing. I didnt really have any problem with the second half jumping around a lot as in the end it all came together very well.
Just a couple of comments:
I though it was very effective the way Kirsten flipped Janeways feelings and fears from Isobos Shirt(sp?) back on to Chakotay. He really got shafted, poor guy! Also I thought it was somewhat
having Janeway invoke her own death (at least) a couple of times during her part of the book.
I really liked Tom in FC but Im not sure I liked BEllana. I thought she was been somewhat selfish even if her childs life was a risk, Miral is Toms daughter as well. She really didnt give him much choice did she.
Also, this artifact that Eden refers too several times...have we seen it before? I dont recall it from the show or other Voyager books, but my memory is pretty terrible. Does it seem odd that Kes's name is mentioned regularly in association to the artifact...hmmmm I wonder...
I can not wait now till October gets here. Im really looking forward to Unworthy!!!
Just a couple of comments:
I though it was very effective the way Kirsten flipped Janeways feelings and fears from Isobos Shirt(sp?) back on to Chakotay. He really got shafted, poor guy! Also I thought it was somewhat
having Janeway invoke her own death (at least) a couple of times during her part of the book.I really liked Tom in FC but Im not sure I liked BEllana. I thought she was been somewhat selfish even if her childs life was a risk, Miral is Toms daughter as well. She really didnt give him much choice did she.
Also, this artifact that Eden refers too several times...have we seen it before? I dont recall it from the show or other Voyager books, but my memory is pretty terrible. Does it seem odd that Kes's name is mentioned regularly in association to the artifact...hmmmm I wonder...
I can not wait now till October gets here. Im really looking forward to Unworthy!!!
Clearly.
If we want to see all of the characters, they're going to have to. The Doctor is now aboard a ship he helped design called the Galen. Vorik has moved to the Hawking. In my mind the whole fleet is now fair game. It's not that we don't focus on our main characters. Just a bigger sandbox.
I hope he means "good". Otherwise, in context, I have to start thinking of goo as something positive and I just don't think that's going to happen. Glad it seemed to work for you Wally. Hopefully Unworthy will too.
Fair enough.
One of my favorite moments to write. I kept pinching myself the whole time that I was being allowed to do this.
Okay. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
It might comfort you to know that both have more to do in Unworthy.
And this, too, I will call a win.
You've got six months before you get your wish. And as for hijinks galore....not as long as I'm writing it.
And while I can't change your feelings on this, I'm going to throw this out there in Pocket's defense. This project has been on the drawing board for three years. The only reason it was delayed this long was the development of Destiny. Once that story was conceived, everything around it, including Voyager had to wait a little longer so that the whole thing could be weaved together as seamlessly as possible. For you and others, it will probably never justify the time lapse and may not have been a worthy trade-off. The editors felt it was, however...and here we are. I can promise you it isn't because of a lack of love for the Voyager characters or their fans on Pocket's part or mine. It was a choice to rush out something disconnected, or wait and create something bigger and hopefully richer. Your mileage will most certainly vary.
It is possible, but not something I did intentionally.
Irene's illness is established in Full Circle. It is possible that Dave mentioned it somewhere in Destiny because he knew I had done that, but I'm not a hundred percent sure.
And I'm so glad the story worked for you.
Many thanks.
This was my thought as well, but clearly it doesn't resonate with everyone, which I get.
Okay. I will point out that he was violently assaulted before he turned on her which I think did justify his actions. (I'm basing this on that TNG episode feature Ullians...their attacks left Deanna, Will and someone I'm forgetting in a coma so this wasn't just a little mind violation] I also think his choice to take the time to place her where she might find some comfort when she woke up was decent of him. But as always...valid point.
Yeah, I know it could feel that way. All I can say again is that every single plot point and character were weighed against the bigger picture. I know my choices wouldn't have been everyone's.
Silly? Hopefully it will seem less so as Unworthy progresses. All I'll say now is that he had his reasons and it was a tough call.
Well...for the Starfleet officers there is that thing about them being ordered to do it. I don't think any who requested transfers when they learned of the mission would have been refused, but basically you're talking about Harry and Vorik who are, to me at least, career officers. The Doctor is testing a ship he helped design. I don't see him turning that down. Tom and B'Elanna you covered. Which leaves Chakotay and Seven.
And maybe I just weigh more heavily than you do the fact that they have slipstream drives. They're not stuck out there. This is an opportunity to explore without the whole when will we get home thing hanging over their heads. And I sort of think they would appreciate that their experience makes them assets to the mission.
I couldn't see anyone going back under the same conditions they faced the first time around. But I feel like this is different on so many levels that their choice doesn't strike me as odd. Of course, YMMV.
Good eye. Now hush!
To sum up...sorry you're not into Cambridge, but your reasoning is as sound as any I've heard. And FWIW, I don't think I wrote Janeway like Montgomery or Batiste, despite the fact that they are all admirals. The worry is not "now she is an admiral so therefore she must become an asshole." The worry is...she belongs in the damn center seat of a Starfleet vessel. And from where we were starting, that wasn't going to happen.
At any rate, thanks for sharing your thoughts in such detail. It was a pleasure to read them and I'm glad things worked for you on balance.
Thanks for all the positive notes. As to this artifact...you have seen it...if you have suffered through what I consider to be one of the worst of the worst Voyager episodes..."Darkling." I actaully had to re-watch that a couple of times in developing Eden's story. That's how much I'm willing to suffer for you guys.
(I know, I know. Smallest violin ever playing just for me, right?
)Best,
Kirsten
^I kinda like "Darkling," but it's hard for me not to like any Kes-centric episode (other than "Fury").
I finished Full Circle last night and all I can say is WOW.
Kirsten, excellent book. I was never a fan of Voyager books, but because of your excellent writing, I am a new fan. I look Forward to your next installment.
While I enjoyed the inside look that the flashbacks provided, I had to keep looking back at what the date was. Several times, I was not sure weather what I was reading was a flashback or present.
I also must disagree about not knowing what the plan was while the characters did. I thought that it was an excellent surprise. It peaked my attention.
I am a little disappointed that the Aventine will not be part of the fleet. I really enjoyed that crew and since that ship already had a slipstream drive that is proven, it would have been as easy addition.
Again, excellent book. Thank you.
Kirsten, excellent book. I was never a fan of Voyager books, but because of your excellent writing, I am a new fan. I look Forward to your next installment.
While I enjoyed the inside look that the flashbacks provided, I had to keep looking back at what the date was. Several times, I was not sure weather what I was reading was a flashback or present.
I also must disagree about not knowing what the plan was while the characters did. I thought that it was an excellent surprise. It peaked my attention.
I am a little disappointed that the Aventine will not be part of the fleet. I really enjoyed that crew and since that ship already had a slipstream drive that is proven, it would have been as easy addition.
Again, excellent book. Thank you.
Thanks for that, Ill have to review it I guess (although I love it when Picardo plays crazy!!)
Last edited:
Fair enough, I'm willing to keep an open mind about it until I see where it is going.
And Thank You for responding.
