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Spoilers Fugitive of the Judoon grade and discussion thread

How do you rate Fugitive of the Judoon?


  • Total voters
    95
I think she's pre Hartnell.. With them showing the doctor as a kid, as a boy, then even Ms Ruth isn't the first incarnation of the doctor, So I think the doctor had a life as a timelord with a tardis, working for Galyfrey .. then something happened, and they mind wiped her and have her a new set of regenerations.. and having a feeling that he wanted to GTFO of Gallefery, he stole a tardis and bobs your uncle..
Side note..
I really don't like this incarnation of the Tardis control room.. I miss the Smith/Capaldi clean metalic version.. and love the old version that poped up this episode..
Thinking about the young boy timelord looking in to the untempered schism, I’ve often wondered about how Timelords visualise themselves in previous incarnations. Would Thirteen have pictured a young girl running away if she recalled the story now?

The snivelling child in the barn though. Could an ancient Timelord be reset in to a child form, memory locked?
 
Indeed. She must have inherited a huge pile of cash to pay the inheritance tax on that. 40% of its value when her parents died? She might have escaped some of that by making the lighthouse her main residence. Otherwise, unless she inherited a million in capital with it, she'd have had to sell to pay the taxman.

Except she didn't have to pay the tax, as she didn't inherit it.

There don't appear to be any navigational points north of Sharpness, and I can't find any actual lighthouses north of the Severn Crossing

https://gloucesterharbourtrustees.o...r-SMS-Annex-I-small-2019-Lights-Catalogue.pdf
 
Clearly not the lighthouse they used, but Berkeley Pill is half an hour from Gloucester. Chapel rock less than an hour. Even Burnham on Sea is only just over the hour. So it's not impossible. Though I don't think any of those was the one used.
 
As for the "ekeing out a living whilst sat on a million if she just goes home" thing is pretty much the definition of the Doctor, who COULD be President of Gallifrey with access to all the technology and prestige of the Time Lords... and would be bored as fuck, so goes touring the universe in the Gallifreyan equivalent of a 60s VW camper van with a temperamental clutch.
 
Why would there be a police box, that should still be in service, in a junk yard in 1963?

Maybe every TARDIS that lands in 1963, turns into a police box?

Which means that Ruth has been on Earth hiding as a Human since the mid 1960s.
 
Why would there be a police box, that should still be in service, in a junk yard in 1963?

Maybe every TARDIS that lands in 1963, turns into a police box?

Which means that Ruth has been on Earth hiding as a Human since the mid 1960s.
Good point. Though some police boxes would be decommissioned before then, would they go to a junk intact yard, or be dismantled/wrecked in situ and disposed of.
 
Lee had a non-earth tech medal in a box stuffed in the back of a wardrobe. I certainly took that to imply it was a chameleon arch doohicky designed for unmasking a timelord. So was Lee a timelord himself, rather than "faithful companion"? Was he the actual fugitive? Or was it not his, as Martha looked after the fob watch?


Gat said that she and Lee received the same training. Lee read as human to the Doctor's sonic, but Gat later read as a Gallifreyan to the same device. Note the Doctor did not say Gat was a Time Lord, as the words are not synonymous – one has to have attended the Academy to qualify as as a Time Lord.

So it appears that Gat and Lee were both Galifreyans, but army rather than Time Lord – the box contained a service medal which Lee kept out of nostalgia, presumably remembering the time when working for the Gallifrey army was a good thing before whatever happened that required he and Doctor Ruth to desert. But since he read as human, Lee was either wearing a perception filter strong enough to fool the sonic, or had also been through the chameleon arch enough to change his biology but leaving his mind intact.


The snivelling child in the barn though. Could an ancient Timelord be reset in to a child form, memory locked?


River said so, at least for the regenerating into a child part – "the last time I did this I ended up as a toddler in New York".

.
 
Note the Doctor did not say Gat was a Time Lord, as the words are not synonymous
.

Yes she did:

Doctor: In my time Gallifrey does not exist. It's gone. Forever! And if you don't know that you are in my past. So you are only serving at the glory of ash and bone.

Gat: This is a trick.

Doctor: Check my mind - one Timelord to another.
 
Lee had a non-earth tech medal in a box stuffed in the back of a wardrobe. I certainly took that to imply it was a chameleon arch doohicky designed for unmasking a timelord. So was Lee a timelord himself, rather than "faithful companion"? Was he the actual fugitive? Or was it not his, as Martha looked after the fob watch?
Lee seems to have memory of who he really is, and he and Gat talk about that medal representing bravery or something sounding vaguely like it was something obtained/earned through military service. I'm thinking Lee was a Chancellery Guard who ended up involved in the Doctor's plan, and was became her guardian/protector when she turned herself human.
 
It there was a set of regenerations before Hartnell, there’s nothing to say that it was the first set. The morbius faces could have been randomly selected from the most recent thousand incarnations.

Multiple pre-Hartnel sets of regenerations???? That's crazy talk. It's not teh Canon! ;)

Really, I'd be happy if it turns out to be one set of regenerations, pre-Hartnell. It would tie in with Morbius, which has been a source of endless theorizing for, what, 44 years? And a mix of male and female would be fine.


Indeed. She must have inherited a huge pile of cash to pay the inheritance tax on that. 40% of its value when her parents died? She might have escaped some of that by making the lighthouse her main residence. Otherwise, unless she inherited a million in capital with it, she'd have had to sell to pay the taxman.

ETA there are loads of lighthouses within range. Though I suspect the BBC used a more remote one for visual effect.

Any that stand out as far as looking like there's no water nearby (low tide?) that way that one did? It was pretty flat ground.
 
Indeed. She must have inherited a huge pile of cash to pay the inheritance tax on that. 40% of its value when her parents died? She might have escaped some of that by making the lighthouse her main residence. Otherwise, unless she inherited a million in capital with it, she'd have had to sell to pay the taxman.

ETA there are loads of lighthouses within range. Though I suspect the BBC used a more remote one for visual effect.

What parents?
 
Multiple pre-Hartnel sets of regenerations???? That's crazy talk. It's not teh Canon! ;)

Really, I'd be happy if it turns out to be one set of regenerations, pre-Hartnell. It would tie in with Morbius, which has been a source of endless theorizing for, what, 44 years? And a mix of male and female would be fine.
A billion years of Timelord civilisation, that’s a lot of life times.
 
Rassilon and Omega, the Doctor's Boyhood heroes, the state of the Death Zone with daleks and Cybermen, other relics, invented time travel... Not so long ago.

I got the impression that it was barely 10 thousand years.

Of course the TimeLords could have already been a billion years old before they invented Time travel. Or maybe they are measuring time in something similar to Jeremy Beremys? They could loop around in on themselves, for a hundreds of years while the rest of us slog through a week.
 
Random thoughts to throw into the discussion:

Lee had a non-earth tech medal in a box stuffed in the back of a wardrobe. I certainly took that to imply it was a chameleon arch doohicky designed for unmasking a timelord. So was Lee a timelord himself, rather than "faithful companion"? Was he the actual fugitive? Or was it not his, as Martha looked after the fob watch?

I thought it was a medal that he had been awarded. And kept for sentimental reasons. I don't think he was a Time Lord, but he was Gallifreyan, like the woman who shot him. They had the same training.

Ruth was the fugitive.

Ruth runs to a lighthouse and smashes the glass to get her memories back, due to a trigger from Lee. He's her husband, but apparently she isn't too bothered by his death? I know this is Doctor Who, but a little more emotional response? She never mentions him again... like, how long were they married?

I don't know if they were married before the chameleon arch. The marriage may have been a part of the identity. And Lee may have started having feelings for Ruth.

Doctor Ruth didn't have a lot of time to have feelings... she was being chased...

Also, if your secret identity were dependent on a fire alarm panel, would you really leave it in an empty building for vandals to break in and trash? Honestly? Building out in the wilds and no kids in there smoking weed in 20 years?

We don't know if she was actually gone from there for 20 years. It was implanted memories. Could've been only a few years. And Lee may have kept an eye on the place.

The judoon scan Ruth and she shows as human, and not the fugitive. She smashes the glass, thereby breaking the identity lock, after which the doctor scans her and she shows as the doctor. Can the Chameleon identity thing do layers? Is she in fact someone else hiding as the Doctor?

The Chameleon thing can mask the DNA, that's why the 10th Doctor was able to hide from those creatures.
 
I thought it was a medal that he had been awarded. And kept for sentimental reasons. I don't think he was a Time Lord, but he was Gallifreyan, like the woman who shot him. They had the same training.

That scene is a little ambiguous - it feels to me in the first half of the conversation, GAT thinks this is the doctor so it's not entirely clear that the training or medal was for Lee to me.
 
That scene is a little ambiguous - it feels to me in the first half of the conversation, GAT thinks this is the doctor so it's not entirely clear that the training or medal was for Lee to me.
That's what I was thinking while watching the episode a second time. Gat thinks Lee is The Ruth Doctor while Lee just plays along. So the medal may have belonged to The Ruth Doctor and not him. Gat changes the tone of the conversation when she realizes Lee isn't who she think he is and has the Judoon confirm it, leading to her killing him. He was a "disposable" companion.

That said, Lee also retorted under his breath "humans" in exasperation towards Allan, so he's probably not human either.
 
That scene is a little ambiguous - it feels to me in the first half of the conversation, GAT thinks this is the doctor so it's not entirely clear that the training or medal was for Lee to me.

Yes, I think Gat does think Lee might be the Doctor, that said Lee did exhibit training like Gat, as she said. To me that suggests he’s Gallifreyan, like her, because he got the same training.

Or maybe Lee is ACE!!
 
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