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News Fugitive Doctor and current Master coming to Big Finish.

I have a scoop! Courtesy of someone who I don't want to get in trouble but does work in a company that has a Doctor Who license I have been told the official BBC restrictions for dealing with the Fugitive Doctor. (Which I assume would have to be Russell's restrictions.)

To wit: While she is definitely the Doctor, since the Master can't be trusted the truth of their past remains a mystery and is not to be touched on. Specifically no mentioning the Timeless Child or using Tecteun. Division can be used but shouldn't be the main focus of a story. And finally in a rule that has to have been written especially for Big Finish no having her meet other past Doctors.

Definitely the best solution as far as I'm concerned. Despite what some folks might have wanted there was no way they were ever going to un-Doctor her, so just avoid the stuff that people realllly disliked. (Just like how there's been hundreds of 8th Doctor stories at this point with the half-human subject being steadfastly ignored.)
 
Rich Watson said:
And finally in a rule that has to have been written especially for Big Finish no having her meet other past Doctors.
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That's the only rule that I find a shame. I think the Fugitive Doctor would play so well with other Doctors. But I guess that may raise too many questions as to her past. But it's not like RTD would explore that, or would he?
 
Nick Briggs has confirmed that the BBC are holding up these, as they're waiting on press releases and release dates to be approved before they can announce them.

Given that the last part of 'Once and Future' which is rumored to have Jo Martin (and possibly Jodie) in it has been delayed until November next year, I'm guessing that don't want anything distracting from Ncuti's first series, which is fair enough.
 
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Rich Watson said:
I have a scoop! Courtesy of someone who I don't want to get in trouble but does work in a company that has a Doctor Who license I have been told the official BBC restrictions for dealing with the Fugitive Doctor. (Which I assume would have to be Russell's restrictions.)
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Titan? I think you might be talking about Titan.

Rich Watson said:
To wit: While she is definitely the Doctor, since the Master can't be trusted the truth of their past remains a mystery and is not to be touched on. Specifically no mentioning the Timeless Child or using Tecteun. Division can be used but shouldn't be the main focus of a story. And finally in a rule that has to have been written especially for Big Finish no having her meet other past Doctors.
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This also feels directed at Titan.

After the Doctor Who Origins Free Comic Book Day Special ahead of the mini-series, I expected more tie-in between the Fugitive Doctor and the First Doctor in the mini-series (like, the Earth kids the Fugitive Doctor met would be Susan's classmates in "An Unearthly Child"), and then there was none. Plus, Origins was all Division, front and center. And, Titan got a bit excessive in doing Doctors-meeting-Doctors things. Origins was refreshingly multi-Doctor free, but before too long you just knew it would happen... :)

That Origins ended, not really on a cliffhanger but with a definite sense that more was coming, and more has not come, again suggests Titan as a target of Cardiff's edicts.

Which is not a bad thing, imho. The Fugitive Doctor is a fascinating toy in the toybox, but it's also one to be careful with and may need some extra care. Set out some rules and play with the toy in a managed way.
 
I still maintain that, if the Timeless Child stuff is treated as a lie from the Master, the Fugitive Doctor works perfectly as basically Doctor 2.5, fitting inbetween Troughton and Pertwee. We know that the Second Doctor was working for the Timelords while being a lot older then he looked in The War Games, leading to the (almost canon at this point) "Season 6B" Theory. We also never see the 2nd Doctor become the 3rd, and all of that together honestly seems like a perfect fit for The Fugitive Doctor.

Since the Fugitive Doctor is one of the few things I actually liked about Chibnall's run I'm glad she's sticking around as a real Doctor even if its just in Big Finish stuff, but since I loathe the timeless child crap I really like my theory about her, although honestly as long as the TC is just not mentioned again I'll be happy enough to just accept her existence.
 
I agree, the season 6b/Doctor 2.5 theory is the one that solves more problems than it creates (solves: The TARDIS looking like the TARDIS, the Timeless Child concept removing the Doctor's agency in choosing to be a heroic figure and implying that an infinite amount of character-developing and world-shaking adventures happened pre-Hartnell that we'll never see, the Eleventh Doctor not realizing that he was out of regenerations until he apparently tried regenerating and it didn't work, the Eleventh Doctor being out of regenerations at all and he and the Time Lords both failing to realize whatever they did was a placebo, various representation milestones for casting the Doctor technically being unnamed child extras. Creates: the Fugitive Doctor not recognizing the sonic screwdriver).

I think the best case would probably be to let things lie and leave it ambiguous, though, at least for several years. Who knows, maybe somebody will have a really amazing story with the Timeless Child concept that'll vindicate the whole thing? Or it'll just stay as a historical curiosity and subject for fannish debate, like the Moebius Doctors or Merlin.
 
David cgc said:
the Timeless Child concept removing the Doctor's agency in choosing to be a heroic figure and implying that an infinite amount of character-developing and world-shaking adventures happened pre-Hartnell that we'll never see
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How's it remove the Doctor's agency? the Hartnell Doctor was the original as far as he knew, he had no memory of existing before then. He made a choice to leave Gallifrey and go on the run with Susan. He was a blank slate and the personality of the Doctor we know comes solely from his decision and the adventures the Doctor has had since then. A best you could hypothesise that part of what encouraged the Doctor to leave Gallifrey was a nagging feeling that he should, and that he didn't belong there, but that's it, and that's one of the reason the Timeless Child annoys me, but is also essentially pointless because nothing the Timeless Child did had any bearing on the Doctor we've known for the majority of their existence.
 
Rich Watson said:
Given that the last part of 'Once and Future' which is rumored to have Jo Martin (and possibly Jodie) in it has been delayed until November next year,
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What?! That sucks. Granted, I have had zero time to even listen to these but you'd bet I wouldn't be happy if I was.
 
“Delayed” there is a little misleading; the final installment (which is being marketed as a coda rather than the climax of the story) has been scheduled for November 2024 since the series was announced in November 2022. Maybe at one point there was a plan to release it in 2023 (I haven’t seen that reported but I don’t follow these things closely), but no one outside the production actually experienced a change in its release date.
 
Starkers said:
How's it remove the Doctor's agency? the Hartnell Doctor was the original as far as he knew, he had no memory of existing before then. He made a choice to leave Gallifrey and go on the run with Susan. He was a blank slate and the personality of the Doctor we know comes solely from his decision and the adventures the Doctor has had since then. A best you could hypothesise that part of what encouraged the Doctor to leave Gallifrey was a nagging feeling that he should, and that he didn't belong there, but that's it, and that's one of the reason the Timeless Child annoys me, but is also essentially pointless because nothing the Timeless Child did had any bearing on the Doctor we've known for the majority of their existence.
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It seems like an improbable coincidence that the Doctor would have absolutely no memory of being the Doctor in a previous life, and yet would end up with the same name, the same TARDIS, the same emphatic-but-flexible stance on guns, and so on purely by coincidence. For the Fugitive Doctor to be recognizably the Doctor (if the Timeless Child backstory is exactly as has been claimed by the characters relating it and they aren't lying), it means little baby Hartnell was growing along a pre-determined path back into the person he was made to be by eons of child abuse, medical experimentation, and conscription as an immortal spy/assassin for Division, just as the Doctor might've done after countless twelfth-regeneration memory-erasures before we met them.
 
David cgc said:
It seems like an improbable coincidence that the Doctor would have absolutely no memory of being the Doctor in a previous life, and yet would end up with the same name, the same TARDIS, the same emphatic-but-flexible stance on guns, and so on purely by coincidence. For the Fugitive Doctor to be recognizably the Doctor (if the Timeless Child backstory is exactly as has been claimed by the characters relating it and they aren't lying), it means little baby Hartnell was growing along a pre-determined path back into the person he was made to be by eons of child abuse, medical experimentation, and conscription as an immortal spy/assassin for Division, just as the Doctor might've done after countless twelfth-regeneration memory-erasures before we met them.
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Which would have been almost precisely the case if the Cartmel Masterplan had been concluded, sans the TARDIS.
 
Luckily the Cartmel Masterplan is just a worthless pile of fanfiction, no more relevant then anything you can find from random people online. A horrible idea put forth by an incompetent writer who wanted to turn Doctor Who into their own show, kind of like what Chibnall was trying to do with the Timeless Child, and just as stupid and show/character ruining, although at least the cartmel masterplan never made it on screen in any form.
 
kirk55555 said:
Luckily the Cartmel Masterplan is just a worthless pile of fanfiction, no more relevant then anything you can find from random people online. A horrible idea put forth by an incompetent writer who wanted to turn Doctor Who into their own show, kind of like what Chibnall was trying to do with the Timeless Child, and just as stupid and show/character ruining, although at least the cartmel masterplan never made it on screen in any form.
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Cartmel and Chibbers have written more worthy of praise than you ever have, or will.

I'll admit it's a bar low enough that you likely couldn't limbo under it if you had your spine removed, but still.
 
matthunter said:
Cartmel and Chibbers have written more worthy of praise than you ever have, or will.

I'll admit it's a bar low enough that you likely couldn't limbo under it if you had your spine removed, but still.
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Oh, the old "You can't criticize something unless you can do better" argument, the lowest, most bottom of the barrel argument that there is :lol:
 
Turtletrekker said:
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The official credits title Jo Martin as "The Doctor", not "The Fugitive Doctor". Strange that the video clip still uses the title her as "The Fugitive Doctor".

Nitpick aside, the videos are great, Jo rocks the interviews (as well as the Doctor), and I am very much looking forward to the upcoming releases - thanks for posting these!!
 
kirk55555 said:
Luckily the Cartmel Masterplan is just a worthless pile of fanfiction, no more relevant then anything you can find from random people online. A horrible idea put forth by an incompetent writer who wanted to turn Doctor Who into their own show, kind of like what Chibnall was trying to do with the Timeless Child, and just as stupid and show/character ruining, although at least the cartmel masterplan never made it on screen in any form.
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Turning Sutekh into a giant doggie and doing walkies on a leash is hardly any better for some, but brilliant according to others. It is what it is.

Doctor Who has invariably been turned into what the showrunner/script editor wanted. Was that day since day one. At least Cartmel had JNT telling him "Don't go too far" and even vetoed some of the larger ideas from "Silver Nemesis" where the Doctor was going to be a god or whatever. In that regard, season 27 with whatever the revelation were to be, based on hints and namedropping of Rassilon and Omega throughout season 25, etc, never mind Ace being dropped off at Gallifrey University, probably would have fallen flat at the time at best - fans in the late 1980s were debating the new seasons back then as well, hence Whizz Kidd and other visual allegories in "The Greatest Show in the Galaxy"...

Rich Watson said:
I have a scoop! Courtesy of someone who I don't want to get in trouble but does work in a company that has a Doctor Who license I have been told the official BBC restrictions for dealing with the Fugitive Doctor. (Which I assume would have to be Russell's restrictions.)

To wit: While she is definitely the Doctor, since the Master can't be trusted the truth of their past remains a mystery and is not to be touched on. Specifically no mentioning the Timeless Child or using Tecteun. Division can be used but shouldn't be the main focus of a story. And finally in a rule that has to have been written especially for Big Finish no having her meet other past Doctors.
Click to expand...

All plusses to me. The Timeless Child reveal was pretty daft IMHO. At least E-Space wasn't the universe of the Doctor's origin. :vulcan: ? Tecteun wasn't a great character, why Jo's Doctor has to be tethered to The Division all the time seems a waste of opportunity and potential, and I'll admit that hearing or seeing Jo spar opposite Colin or Sylvester would have been pretty cool... The Master altering the Matrix or setting up a big fib is so much in character that "not to be trusted" fits perfectly


Rich Watson said:
Definitely the best solution as far as I'm concerned. Despite what some folks might have wanted there was no way they were ever going to un-Doctor her, so just avoid the stuff that people realllly disliked. (Just like how there's been hundreds of 8th Doctor stories at this point with the half-human subject being steadfastly ignored.)
Click to expand...

Definitely is the best approach. Also, the Doctor having previous incarnations to Hartnell didn't faze me and precedent arguably exists thanks to the Morbius 8, if not a joke or two emitted during seasons 15 through 17 hinting at more lives, etc. Still a shame we don't get a proper TV series with her, but Big Finish has generally been great...
 
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