Frustrations with Trek lit...

[jaime]

Apart from Janeway, which admittedly was a massive mistake, the novels have brought more people back than killed them. It's hardly the novels fault that, for example, Riker and Troi aren't on the Enterprise anymore or that Data died.

As already mentioned I don't have any objections to TV timelines set books but inevitably they'll have to be plot focused as there's a limit to what you can do with the characters. It makes complete sense to me that most authors would prefer to work in a living universe rather than one that never changes.

Variety isn't a bad thing bit if all books were set in the TV timeline I doubt I'd still be reading.

Just to clarify, it's not necessarily screen era based books I want. I want books where the characters and set up at least resemble their screen counterparts (the reason why that logo is on the front and I buy the books month after month)
TNG is almost doing that (especially with Titan basically folded in now, look at Prey) and VOY is definitely doing that. DS9 is not doing that except when it jumps through hoops in the standalone books to do it (Miles and Nog go somewhere else, Quark and co have a problem and Odo decides to help investigate. The Quark based books have been the most consistently good, and I don't even like the character that much.)

 

[jaime]

Her death or subsequently getting better from it?

She was always going to come back, not only because of plot armour, but because of the Q set up.

 

[DimesDan]

Sorry, her death. Massive mistake is probably overstating it but I don't think it really added anything and Voyager is better with her.

Well, it did give Chakotay a very good arc through Full Circle and other Voyager Relaunch stories and made him a lot more interesting (to me anyway) than his time on the programme.

She was always going to come back, not only because of plot armour, but because of the Q set up.

Maybe, maybe not, hindsight is a very interesting thing, anyway, I wasn't asking about the validity of the mistake nor if it was was obvious that she would get better from death, but what did @VDCNI felt was the bigger mistake.

 

[jaime]

Apart from Janeway, which admittedly was a massive mistake, the novels have brought more people back than killed them. It's hardly the novels fault that, for example, Riker and Troi aren't on the Enterprise anymore or that Data died.

As already mentioned I don't have any objections to TV timelines set books but inevitably they'll have to be plot focused as there's a limit to what you can do with the characters. It makes complete sense to me that most authors would prefer to work in a living universe rather than one that never changes.

Variety isn't a bad thing bit if all books were set in the TV timeline I doubt I'd still be reading.

The books are not character focused at the moment though...what development there is has been glacial, the plots are often one-note, and there is no sense of a living universe because the 'star' characters do next to nothing if they appear, and the newer characters are bland and have no attachment. The crisis of faith happening to Ros first officer....I don't care, because I don't know the guy. I have read every book he is in I think, and I can't even remember his name. I do remember security chief guys name, but I am apparently one of few who do, and then I only remember it because he is referred to over and over. As a character though....best I can say is he's maybe like a pre Maquis Eddington. I know nothing about him. I don't even know what these people actually look like, because writing a tie-in usually saves a writer using lots of physical descriptions...which they then continue to not do when it's needed. It's the same problem with the new station. If you have characters with little character, then compound that with little physical description, you get nothing to hang your story on.
This is a problem that varies across the range...I don't necessarily have much of a physical model for some of the lit characters, but I have personalities for Vale, T'Ryssa, even single story arc characters like Cross etc in Prey. The roman speaking girl with pink hair (I keep forgetting her name because I am not great with names in real life at first either XD) made more of an impression in bits of The Fall and the Titan stuff than most of the current Ds9 senior staff. And I am a Ro fan from the TNG days, but she's just not a very good lead, especially in a series where Kira is.
Ds9 was probably my favourite TV Trek. It is now my least favourite book Trek, and I think than gives me fan-anger. Not even the usually silly kind...it's not that aren't doing exactly what I think with 'my' characters, it's that, at the moment, what they are doing...really isn't very good.

 

[VDCNI]

I would say Voyager is very character focused as was the last Titan book but yes TNG and especially DS9 need more work (and for DS9 more TV characters front and centre) at the moment but for me the solution is to fix that not start again from scratch.

Book 1 of Prey was so bad that I haven't bothered with the rest and I'm happier with Titan on its own if they can keep up the quality of the last book which kicked the characters on.

Fair point on Chakotay though I think that was a lucky accident rather than the actual intention of killing her in the first place.

 

[JD]

Oh, I agree, there is none of the problems with the books are so bad that they can't fix it while still continuing on with things the where they are now. Just because the characters aren't well developed now, doesn't mean they can't be in the future, and even if they're not all together most of the TV characters are still around.
TNG:
Picard - still on Capt. of the Enterprise, married to Crusher
Riker - Admr. on board Titan
Data - resurrected and off on his own with Lal, no longer in Starfleet, no longer major character
Troi - with Riker on Titan, head counselor and diplomatic officer
Worf - XO of Enterprise
La Forge - Chief Engineer of the Enterprise
Crusher: Married to Picard, CMO of Enterprise
Wesley: Traveler

DS9:
Sisko - Capt. of the Robinson
Kira - left Starfleet, now a Bajoran Vedek
Bashir - left Starfleet, dealing with Section 31
O'Brien - Engineer on new DS9
Dax - Captain of the Aventine
Worf - see above
Jake - living on Bajor, no longer major character
Quark - on new DS9, Ferengi Ambassador to Bajor
VOY:
Janeway - Admr. on Voyager
Chakotay - Capt. of Voyager
Tuvok - Tactical officer of Titan
Tom Paris - XO of Voyager
The Doctor - Chief Medical Officer USS Galen
Harry Kim - Voyager security chief/tactical officer
B'Elanna - on board Voyager, Full Circle Fleet Chief Engineer
Seven of Nine - on board Voyager
Neelix - Living on New Talax, no longer major character
I haven't read the Rise of the Federation books yet, so I'm not sure what's going with the Ent. cast members right now.
EDIT: Added Tom Paris and The Doctor
Edit 2: Added Crushers

 

[stardream]

You forgot Tom Paris....First Officer on Voyager.

 

[Idran]

I haven't read the Rise of the Federation books yet, so I'm not sure what's going with the Ent. cast members right now.

All the main characters are still actively involved in the books, plus Cutler.

 

[JD]

That's what I thought, but I wasn't positive.

You forgot Tom Paris....First Officer on Voyager.

Oops, I edited the post to add Tom and I noticed I also forgot The Doctor, so I added him too.

 

[DrCorby]

That's what I thought, but I wasn't positive.

Oops, I edited the post to add Tom and I noticed I also forgot The Doctor, so I added him too.

To complete the TNG crew: Isn't Dr Crusher married to Picard and still on the Enterprise? And Wesley is still off being a Traveler, last I remember.

 

[jaime]

Oh, I agree, there is none of the problems with the books are so bad that they can't fix it while still continuing on with things the where they are now. Just because the characters aren't well developed now, doesn't mean they can't be in the future, and even if they're not all together most of the TV characters are still around.
TNG:
Picard - still on Capt. of the Enterprise
Riker - Admr. on board Titan
Data - resurrected and off on his own with Lal, no longer in Starfleet, no longer major character
Troi - with Riker on Titan, head counselor and diplomatic officer
Worf - XO of Enterprise
La Forge - Chief Engineer of the Enterprise
DS9:
Sisko - Capt. of the Robinson
Kira - left Starfleet, now a Bajoran Vedek
Bashir - left Starfleet, dealing with Section 31
O'Brien - Engineer on new DS9
Dax - Captain of the Aventine
Worf - see above
Jake - living on Bajor, no longer major character
Quark - on new DS9, Ferengi Ambassador to Bajor
VOY:
Janeway - Admr. on Voyager
Chakotay - Capt. of Voyager
Tuvok - Tactical officer of Titan
Tom Paris - XO of Voyager
The Doctor - Chief Medical Officer USS Galen
Harry Kim - Voyager security chief/tactical officer
B'Elanna - on board Voyager, Full Circle Fleet Chief Engineer
Seven of Nine - on board Voyager
Neelix - Living on New Talax, no longer major character
I haven't read the Rise of the Federation books yet, so I'm not sure what's going with the Ent. cast members right now.
EDIT: Added Tom Paris and The Doctor

You missed a few still....Odo: kind of wandering around and hanging about, Ezri: doing well as captain of Aventine mainly in th TNG books. Crusher: CMO of enterprise and also CMO on DS9 for a stint, may or may not be in a good mood with Picard. There's more extended cast too....Ro: captain of Ds9 , Nog: chief engineer of new Ds9, sort of job sharing with O'Brien and occasionally special forces missions....

I don't think it needs to start from scratch, but showing people are still around and have jobs doesn't show what they are actually doing. Sisko for instance, mainly checks his email and occasionally looks like his ship is actually going to do something. Bashir left Starfleet in dramatic circumstances....what....two years ago our time? Three? In a book where his best mate got...what, one line over the intercom on Defiant? Kate Pulaski had more lines and more to do that any of Bashirs friends in that book. Geordi was promoted to captain, had his own ship...but then got reset (fair enough and it was handled fairly logically, though he should have kept his rank.) and has done very very little since being a gateway character to Data in Cold Equations.

There's been a return to form in the standalone novels, which have tightened their focus on two or three characters.

The whole situation is summed up by your description of Data really. The poster child for TNG has come back from the dead....but is now less of a main character than Q. That what main characters like Odo and Crusher are now doing slipped your mind when doing this Where are They Now (good idea btw) is indicative of a need to refocus I think. And hopefully that's what they are doing. I also think they could stand to make the books bigger to fit some development in. And maybe have a team of authors if the one main writer thing is also slowing things down. It stops characters and places getting sidelined if projects face delays.

 

[GaryH]

I agree that the jump wasn't the greatest idea, and from the top of my head I can only think of one book that covered a somewhat long period of time, brought change to characters and was really good, VGR: Full Circle. IMO the less time jumps, the better.

New Frontier did an excellent time jump of 3 years at one point where most of the characters were in different but exciting places. It never really looked back which is probably why it worked. It was up to the reader to keep up.

 

[JD]

I don't know if I'd agree with the jump in NF being a good thing, that was a pretty big part of the series downward spiral IMO.

You missed a few still....Odo: kind of wandering around and hanging about, Ezri: doing well as captain of Aventine mainly in th TNG books. Crusher: CMO of enterprise and also CMO on DS9 for a stint, may or may not be in a good mood with Picard. There's more extended cast too....Ro: captain of Ds9 , Nog: chief engineer of new Ds9, sort of job sharing with O'Brien and occasionally special forces missions....

I don't think it needs to start from scratch, but showing people are still around and have jobs doesn't show what they are actually doing. Sisko for instance, mainly checks his email and occasionally looks like his ship is actually going to do something. Bashir left Starfleet in dramatic circumstances....what....two years ago our time? Three? In a book where his best mate got...what, one line over the intercom on Defiant? Kate Pulaski had more lines and more to do that any of Bashirs friends in that book. Geordi was promoted to captain, had his own ship...but then got reset (fair enough and it was handled fairly logically, though he should have kept his rank.) and has done very very little since being a gateway character to Data in Cold Equations.

There's been a return to form in the standalone novels, which have tightened their focus on two or three characters.

The whole situation is summed up by your description of Data really. The poster child for TNG has come back from the dead....but is now less of a main character than Q. That what main characters like Odo and Crusher are now doing slipped your mind when doing this Where are They Now (good idea btw) is indicative of a need to refocus I think. And hopefully that's what they are doing. I also think they could stand to make the books bigger to fit some development in. And maybe have a team of authors if the one main writer thing is also slowing things down. It stops characters and places getting sidelined if projects face delays.

Ok, the only reason I didn't know what Crusher and Odo are up to is do the my shitty and the fact that I'm several books behind, it has nothing to do with the books themselves. I forgot Tom Paris and The Doctor too, and they're still doing basically the same things they were on the series.
And I completely disagree about Data, the fact that they are doing things like that is one the things I love about Trek it. Allowing the characters to spread out like that has really done a lot to allow the universe to grow and expand beyond just a couple of ships and a space station.

To complete the TNG crew: Isn't Dr Crusher married to Picard and still on the Enterprise? And Wesley is still off being a Traveler, last I remember.

Oops, thanks I added Crusher and Wes. I'm not adding Nog or Ro since I was sticking only to main credits regulars from the shows.

 

[jaime]

New Frontier did an excellent time jump of 3 years at one point where most of the characters were in different but exciting places. It never really looked back which is probably why it worked. It was up to the reader to keep up.

There's a way to make time jumps work...we have them in between the series and the movies too, and between movies. But they work by basically having the audience not miss very much and then go in and fill the gaps later if they feel like it. Ds9 did not do this. It set up a new status quo, jumped ahead to a totally different status quo, talked about previous events, then finally gave us a time travel/flashback episode to fill in one of the gaps everyone kept talking about. No clean breaks, and a messy wound, with a ton of collateral damage to the characters.

 

[Idran]

Isn't that exactly what Parks and Rec's last season did? That is, jump ahead to a completely new status quo to shake things up while only hinting at the intervening events, and eventually having flashbacks to cover the gap. And it was amazing.

 

[JD]

My problem wasn't with the time jump as an idea, it was just the execution of the stuff after it that was the problem. Lots of shows and things have done time jumps and made it work, but in this case it just didn't work that well.

 

[Jinn]

New Frontier did an excellent time jump of 3 years at one point where most of the characters were in different but exciting places. It never really looked back which is probably why it worked. It was up to the reader to keep up.

I'm currently reading After the Fall but I'm not yet sure wether I like it or not.

 

[Stevil2001]

The second book after the time jump was when I finally gave up on New Frontier.

 

[STR]

They are talking about the original plan for the trilogy as Kindred, which had first Picard die and Worf take his rightful place; then the second plan which had old Picard:

Any time someone brings up Irumodic Syndrome (which was never mentioned outside of Q's fantasy and may not even "exist" as a condition outside said fantasy) I feel awfully "frustrated".

 

[Idran]

Why's that? You're right that it might not exist outside that fantasy, but that doesn't mean it has to not exist. Either its existence or its nonexistence are equally consistent with things. And the Litverse has already also brought in the concept of anti-time and Holloway from "Tapestry".