Forked from "22-year-old...": My thoughts on the Death Penalty

[sidious618]

Sorry if this caused any confusion - but frankly, anyone who was confused by that probably doesn't need to be involved in a conversation about something as important as the death penalty.

Ah, the old I'll insult you but add to make it all better ploy.

No, I'm pissed cause you used my post (well, a part of my post- you didn't even quote the whole thing) to start a thread filled with incorrect facts, as has been continuously pointed out to you.

 

[JonathonWally]

Sorry if this caused any confusion - but frankly, anyone who was confused by that probably doesn't need to be involved in a conversation about something as important as the death penalty.

Edit: I've edited it for clarity, anyway. I hope that's better.

Excellent, so not only are you completely wrong with everything you presented in your OP, but you're rude and smug as well.

Now it's obvious why you were afraid to post this thread of fail in TNZ

 

[Orac Zen]

A number of posters have articulated my position on this matter very well, and anything I'd add would only be repetition. So to put it in a nutshell: Dress it up with whatever euphemisms and justifications you like, but state-sanctioned homicide is still homicide. And if you get it wrong, there's absolutely no way to undo it. Which brings me to these remarks:

The system mostly works. But if your point is that some have and that some is too many, then I'll agree. But no system is without flaws.

So do you have some threshold number of innocent people executed before it becomes a bad thing? As Locutus said, "the system mostly works" and "no system is without flaws" sounds very nice - and ridiculously simplistic - in theory, but when the end result of a mostly working yet flawed system is a dead person who was innocent, simplistic clichés are completely useless. They trivialise a reality, one that simply should not exist.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Of course it is vengeance. What else?

Okay. So the little boy putting his rabid dog down in "Old Yeller" was doing it out of vengeance.

Yes, obviously the reptilian one was trying to equate euthanizing a sick animal with putting down a vicious one.

 

[USS Triumphant]

I didn't start this thread to preach my opinion. I started it for intelligent discussion of the issue. I'm not a "flip-flopper", but I have been known to change my mind even on some pretty important issues based on new data and new considerations of old data. I try not to live a life unexamined. That doesn't mean that I won't state my views as they stand now. If my views can't stand up to opposition, then they need reexamination, and that is true for everyone else's, also.

Ah, the old I'll insult you but add to make it all better ploy.

Actually, that insult wasn't directed at you, or really anyone who has posted in the thread thus far, since no one, yourself included, has seemed confused by the issue. You didn't seem confused, but rather, annoyed. And as to my having created a thread filled with erroneous information, all I can say is that I have presented no untruths (opinions are neither true or untrue - maybe wise or unwise, but they aren't facts) and I am not responsible for other people's posts. But you've clearly decided to demonize me since I hold an opposed opinion to yours, even though I've been polite, considerate, and respectful. That's your right, but doesn't seem like a very useful way to discuss an issue.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Now it's obvious why you were afraid to post this thread of fail in TNZ

I didn't fear anything, I was hoping to have this discussion with a bit more maturity than I would expect in the TNZ. Unfortunately, that doesn't really appear to be the case. I'd restart the thread there if I wasn't just about fed up with it. And to be clear, that is NOT because of opinions in opposition, but rather, because of the way opinions on both sides are being expressed - and that's even starting to be true of my own, due to disappointment.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

A lot of us answered your questions in a polite and straightforward manner and you just glossed over them.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Now it's obvious why you were afraid to post this thread of fail in TNZ

I didn't fear anything, I was hoping to have this discussion with a bit more maturity than I would expect in the TNZ. Unfortunately, that doesn't really appear to be the case. I'd restart the thread there if I wasn't just about fed up with it. And to be clear, that is NOT because of opinions in opposition, but rather, because of the way opinions on both sides are being expressed - and that's even starting to be true of my own, due to disappointment.

You know what? I'm sick and tired of people doing this TNZ-bashing bullshit in Misc.

I've noticed that the people who do it are, by and large, unable to defend their positions, and they don't want to be trashed up and down for it, so they do it in Misc where they can hide behind the mods.

The problem is not and never was TNZ. TNZ is just fine, thanks. Those of us who are willing to stand up for our opinions and back them up with reason, logic, and facts are doing fine. Those who have nothing to stand on get called on it. That's how it should be.

What you really don't like is that nobody in this thread came out and agreed with you. You might want to examine exactly why that is. Here's a hint: it ain't because you're right.

 

[USS Triumphant]

You know what? I'm sick and tired of people doing this TNZ-bashing bullshit in Misc.

I've noticed that the people who do it are, by and large, unable to defend their positions, and they don't want to be trashed up and down for it, so they do it in Misc where they can hide behind the mods.

Actually, I've stated my reason for starting the thread in Misc, but I guess some of you can't stand the idea that someone who holds an opposed view to your own might not be a closed-minded ideologue. Fine. Have a happy here. I'm not a coward.

NOTE TO MODS: Please close this thread. Taking it to TNZ.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The problem is not and never was TNZ. TNZ is just fine, thanks. Those of us who are willing to stand up for our opinions and back them up with reason, logic, and facts are doing fine. Those who have nothing to stand on get called on it. That's how it should be.

But that's not how all threads in TNZ are, is it? AFAIK, people in that forum can say anything they want, to anyone they want, for any reason they want, without fear of sanctions by the mods. ARE there even mods in TNZ? No? So even if some threads are as logical as you say, that's not always the case, is it? (Yes, it's true, I don't have TNZ access, nor do I want it. I am not afraid of logic, but I don't particularly like being flamed; and if one *can* be flamed they eventually will be.)

 

[cultcross]

ARE there even mods in TNZ? No?

Borgminster, Frontline and Awesome Possum will be crushed.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Okay, but what do those mods actually do in that forum? I had always assumed that there were no rules in TNZ. If this is not true, what are the rules there?

 

[suarezguy]

Deleted

 

[cultcross]

^ Okay, but what do those mods actually do in that forum? I had always assumed that there were no rules in TNZ. If this is not true, what are the rules there?

One of the sticky threads in That Place is titled 'Ten Simple Rules for Posting in TNZ', and contains the rules.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

The problem is not and never was TNZ. TNZ is just fine, thanks. Those of us who are willing to stand up for our opinions and back them up with reason, logic, and facts are doing fine. Those who have nothing to stand on get called on it. That's how it should be.

But that's not how all threads in TNZ are, is it? AFAIK, people in that forum can say anything they want, to anyone they want, for any reason they want, without fear of sanctions by the mods. ARE there even mods in TNZ? No? So even if some threads are as logical as you say, that's not always the case, is it? (Yes, it's true, I don't have TNZ access, nor do I want it. I am not afraid of logic, but I don't particularly like being flamed; and if one *can* be flamed they eventually will be.)

There's a big misconception in the idea that just because mods crack down on overt flaming in Miscellaneous that somehow that means that people can't be every bit as offensive and full of shit as they can be in TNZ with the flaming.

Just as you can frequently convey the same point without flaming someone as you can with flaming them, it's equally true that you can behave like a total ass without resorting to obvious and warnable flames. Some people make a career out of it here.

Yes, people get insulted in TNZ, but we frequently have very interesting discussions that a lot of people here miss out on simply because they're hung up on the whole flaming thing alone, as if you can't be equally jerked around or insulted in Miscellaneous.

 

[JonathonWally]

(Yes, it's true, I don't have TNZ access, nor do I want it. I am not afraid of logic, but I don't particularly like being flamed; and if one *can* be flamed they eventually will be.)

Too hard to explain, if you opt in a read it you would get a better understanding of it than any of us would be able to convey.

And don't worry, getting flamed doesn't hurt.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

TNZ has rules. They are pretty simply.

Why is it some people won't opt into TNZ just to read it? Reading won't hurt ya.

There are a lot of misconceptions about what you can and can't do in TNZ, all of which would be solved by reading the rules thread stickied at the top of that forum.

 

[cultcross]

For example, we are breaking rule #4 as we speak. Otherwise known as the Treaty of The Briar Patch, it prevents us from discussing matters of the Other Place on pain of banishment.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

For example, we are breaking rule #4 as we speak. Otherwise known as the Treaty of The Briar Patch, it prevents us from discussing matters of the Other Place on pain of banishment.

Never seems to prevent TNZ bashing in Misc, though.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Okay, but what do those mods actually do in that forum? I had always assumed that there were no rules in TNZ. If this is not true, what are the rules there?

One of the sticky threads in That Place is titled 'Ten Simple Rules for Posting in TNZ', and contains the rules.

Wouldn't it be easier to put the rules in the FAQ or something so people can read them, *then* decide if they want to ask for access to the board?