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Forbes: How ‘Star Trek’ Became Obsolete Thanks To ‘Guardians,’ Fast & Furious’ And ‘Star Wars’

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I agree that it's a combination of factors. What causes success or failure in the entertainment industry is ultimately a fickle thing. I just don't see the 4 year wait as an issue.
At this point I think it was a factor for the timing of the film. Your prior examples of Mission: Impossible and Guardians of the Galaxy ignore just how large Tom Cruise was (at the time when M:I first started up) and how much Marvel banked in to the whole concept of the MCU.

As much as I love Star Trek and love ST 09 I can see people wanting a second installment for it to cement that "must see" aspect that your examples feature. But, 4 years means people can move on.

At least, in my experience. For me, one of my favorite SF films of all time is "Chronicles of Riddick" and I still think it is a great film to this day. But, did I go see Riddick in the theaters? Nope. By the time it made its rounds it simply wasn't something I was able to make time for. Still haven't seen it all the way through.

I don't know. Maybe 09 did fail to garner the attention of the audience-didn't feel that way in 09, 10, and 11. Not here, not on the startrek.com boards, or other film forums I frequented. It was a constantly debated film. So, I can't help but feel that the time frame had something to do with it.

Mileage will vary. And, for my money, if all I get is 09, ID and Beyond then I am OK with it. I'd rather rewatch those than M:I, Bad Boys, Guardians of the Galaxy, or a lot of other films out there.
 
I think the marketing for STID and STB made them look like generic action / disaster movies with Star Trek branding.

The trailers for STID weren't bad, but they just felt kind of standard. The imagery associated with the movie is very earth based; the poster is a man standing on top of a pile of rubble. There was also no continuing plot thread from the previous film.

People like space. But in the marketing of these films it always felt like space was de-emphasized.

The 1st trailer for STB made it look like a GotG wannabe. No matter how good any of the marketing was after that, the first impressions general audiences had of the film is what sticks. And again there was no main continuing plot thread.
 
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GENERIC.

After seeing the generic trailer for STID, and the generic movie poster. It's not surprising there was only a lukewarm buzz for the film after general audiences had already been inundated with big budget action flicks.
 
That's a fair point. I don't entirely disagree though hanging around Trek forums at the time and the "100% of Star Trek fans hate this movie (ID)" didn't do me any favors either.
 
Weirdly, the movie feels strongly like Spiderman 3. It's got what's clearly a movie they planned (Space Iraq War Conspiracy/Peter vs. Harry) and then Venom/Khan tacked onto it because people love Venom/Khan.
Eh, I'm less convinced on this. Venom was definitely was tacked on and Rami hated it. Khan was wanted from the beginning so his appearance feels closer to justified...sort of.
 

Can I just say that the proofreading on this article is really godawful. Half the sentences either repeat words or don't make any sense.

Also, is there a reason why Forbes thinks that we need 2 nearly identical "Star Trek failed at being a tentpole movie franchise" articles by the same guy within a span of less than 2 months?

At least the 2nd article doesn't have all of the proofreading problems of the 1st.

25th - was such a huge deal: Unification/Trek VI, plus stuff like the 2hr documentary with Nimoy and Shatner in their snazzy 90s suits/blazers and a plethora of celebratory magazines (that silver cover starlog special) books, model kits, posters, vhs (and that 25th anniversary logo was everywhere)
30th - Trials&Triblations/Flashback and of course First Contact. big celebratory tv event. usual magazine tie ins
40th - even had some stuff going on and Trek was dead then!
50th - Beyond, and that Beyond event thing with Abrams/Pine/Quinto/Urban, also a few docs and magazines (EW/Time etc actually abit like the 25th)..but it all felt abit idk.. halfhearted?,, and that's probably down to Beyond :(

Not to mention the 35th anniversary, when TV Guide put out 35 different variant covers featuring all of the main characters of all 5 shows. (Sadly, I was a starving college student at the time and only able to afford a couple of them myself.)

The villain was originally going to be John Harrison, renegade Starfleet officer turned terrorist out for revenge. Lindelöf kept insisting on using Khan in the movie, and the compromise was eventually reached on having Khan working under the alias of John Harrison for half the movie. Indeed, Orci has admitted there was a draft of the script which is essentially the same story, just Harrison doesn't suddenly reveal "My name is Khan" halfway through.

OK. Good to know. I was always wondering who to blame for that shitty idea. John Harrison was a perfectly serviceable villain on his own. And while Benedict Cumberbatch gives a great performance, absolutely nothing about his look or his performance evokes Ricardo Montalban in even the slightest way. Adding Khan added nothing to that film besides making the plagiarism all the more obvious. (Also, it's weird because no one seems to know who Khan is in the movie but, in "Space Seed," he was a famous historical figure that Kirk & Scotty seemed to have a certain admiration for.)

At some point Keanu Reeves and Sandra Bullock will likely be asked to come and reprise their "Speed" characters.

I'm really surprised that this hasn't already happend.

Now the next movie should be budgeted for the expectations, and then make a movie with the widest appeal.

Agreed. The issue is that sci-fi action movie making is very different now than it was back in the 1980s & '90s. The old movies were all about amortizing expenses, reusing sets & costumes & effects shots from the previous movies & TV shows, which could then be further utilized on the shows going forward. The movies were good but they were, ultimately, just glorified TV episodes. They could take a $20 million budget and usually rely on a $70 million box office. That was considered good enough back in the day. But it's chump change now. Mid-range movies like that don't really exist any more. And while the new, big-budget movies did OK for a while, I think that was more due to the novelty of it. I don't think that was sustainable.

I think there is something to the fact that Star Wars has a tendency to force Star Trek out of the box office. Star Trek Beyond couldn't withstand the raised expectations from The Force Awakens just as Star Trek Nemesis couldn't compete with the new blockbuster landscape created by The Phantom Menace & Attack of the Clones.

Two things. First, the new movie series failed to gain its own audience. This article says the audience abandoned the new Trek films in favor of the movies it was trying to copy. They failed to make something unique. taking the Star Trek base and pasting a Star Wars movie on it was not a recipe for success. Second, as a Star Trek installment, the 2009 film did not connect well with long time Star Trek fans. Into Darkness even less so. So it failed to keep the long time Trekkies and it failed to create something unique. Had it done both of those, it would have been a continued success. Beyond's success was impacted by the flaws of the first two of the new films, but was otherwise an excellent film.

I think that the hardcore Trekkies have a subconscious effect on how the franchise is viewed by the general public. At the very least, they can tell when we're not happy and it makes them less interested in the franchise. I have some very geeky friends but they're not really Trekkies at all. They're more into Star Wars, Ghostbusters, and Harry Potter. I was the group's designated Trekkie. When Star Trek Into Darkness came out, they really liked it. And, I swear I didn't mean to do this, but every time they'd say something good about the movie, I couldn't help but give them a look that seemed to say, "Are you a complete idiot?" AFAIK, they didn't even bother seeing Star Trek Beyond.:o
 
I think that the hardcore Trekkies have a subconscious effect on how the franchise is viewed by the general public. At the very least, they can tell when we're not happy and it makes them less interested in the franchise. I have some very geeky friends but they're not really Trekkies at all. They're more into Star Wars, Ghostbusters, and Harry Potter. I was the group's designated Trekkie. When Star Trek Into Darkness came out, they really liked it. And, I swear I didn't mean to do this, but every time they'd say something good about the movie, I couldn't help but give them a look that seemed to say, "Are you a complete idiot?" AFAIK, they didn't even bother seeing Star Trek Beyond.:o
And that is the one that actually feels like Star Trek.
 
None of them totally felt like Star Trek to me. ST09 probably comes closest.

I think that, because it's not so fixated on Earth, Beyond has a certain planet-of-the-week element that makes it feel more like a regular TV episode. But I don't think that makes it inherently better than the other 2 movies.
 
I unironically loved Star Trek: Into Darkness. It was greatly superior to Star Trek 2009 because it actually dealt with issues. It wasn't a particularly deep set of issues, "Iraq War=bad" and "Militarism=bad" but it tried. The Khan part was terrible but I've mentioned that I liked Marcus just fine as an evil Admiral.

Beyond was...okay and everyone seemed to like it...but I also didn't exactly get any real emotional feel to it. It also dropped Doctor Marcus and I was eager to see the crew dynamic shaken up by her presence. Plus I didn't actually see any politics inside it or social commentary.

Just Idris Elba being underused.

And Re: The New Movies

My wife never watched an episode of Star Trek in her life. She grew up in a fundamentalist household where dancing was probably outlawed. The Kelvin movies were a nice way to ease her into the franchise and we watched the entirety of TNG together, Discovery, and Picard. Plus some Enterprise.

They've been a huge boon to her.
 
I unironically loved Star Trek: Into Darkness. It was greatly superior to Star Trek 2009 because it actually dealt with issues. It wasn't a particularly deep set of issues, "Iraq War=bad" and "Militarism=bad" but it tried. The Khan part was terrible but I've mentioned that I liked Marcus just fine as an evil Admiral.

As much as the Khan stuff irked me, I was on board with it up until Spock screamed out "Khan!" There aren't enough ":rolleyes::angryrazz::scream::censored:" emojis in the world to express my annoyance with that moment. They only put it in there because it's an iconic moment from The Wrath of Khan; and it only worked in that movie because Shatner has a singular gift for selling over the top moments like that. Zachary Quinto, sadly, is no William Shatner. He's not even Leonard Nimoy.

Also, all of the Iraq War/War on Terrorism stuff felt a little stale. Why are you giving us Bush-era commentary in a popcorn movie that came out during Obama's 2nd term? Little late to the party, are we?
 
I unironically loved Star Trek: Into Darkness. It was greatly superior to Star Trek 2009 because it actually dealt with issues. It wasn't a particularly deep set of issues, "Iraq War=bad" and "Militarism=bad" but it tried. The Khan part was terrible but I've mentioned that I liked Marcus just fine as an evil Admiral.

Beyond was...okay and everyone seemed to like it...but I also didn't exactly get any real emotional feel to it. It also dropped Doctor Marcus and I was eager to see the crew dynamic shaken up by her presence. Plus I didn't actually see any politics inside it or social commentary.

Just Idris Elba being underused.

And Re: The New Movies

My wife never watched an episode of Star Trek in her life. She grew up in a fundamentalist household where dancing was probably outlawed. The Kelvin movies were a nice way to ease her into the franchise and we watched the entirety of TNG together, Discovery, and Picard. Plus some Enterprise.

They've been a huge boon to her.

I found beyond to be very emotional in parts, the most of the three. The scene in the bar with kirk and McCoy, spock finding out about spock primes death, the saucer going down with kirks devastated reflection, the conversation about spock prime with McCoy, the photograph, all hit the right notes for me.
 
I found beyond to be very emotional in parts, the most of the three. The scene in the bar with kirk and McCoy, spock finding out about spock primes death, the saucer going down with kirks devastated reflection, the conversation about spock prime with McCoy, the photograph, all hit the right notes for me.

I'm not saying it wasn't emotional, just that it didn't land for me. I liked a lot of it--just felt it was disconnected from the previous two except for the one big important thing (RIP Leonard Nimoy).

But different strokes for different folks.

I did feel that it was way too early for Chris Pine's character to be feeling Wrath of Khan ennui. Hell, I argued it was too early for William Shatner to be feeling that in the Trekverse at that age.
 
See I am the opposite. I think 09 and ID had very deep emotional moments and hit upon a deep theme of father figures with Kirk, in particular. I love Kirk's self-sacrifice in ID, and it fits the theme and journey from 09 in to ID, with Kirk unwilling to accept losing, unlike Prime Kirk who can accept losing but doesn't like it.

Spock also have an interesting journey of self-discovery in terms of reconciling his two halves, and the intense trauma from the loss of his planet, and trying to avoid those painful feelings, until loss is shoved straight in to his face with Kirk and Pike.

There's more but suffice to say my mileage varies extremely for these films.
 
I did feel that it was way too early for Chris Pine's character to be feeling Wrath of Khan ennui. Hell, I argued it was too early for William Shatner to be feeling that in the Trekverse at that age.

3 movies certainly felt early for Pine's Kirk to be moping like that, particularly since he only started his 5-year mission at the end of the 2nd film. Shatner's Kirk could kind of sell it based on the fact that he had a lot more screentime with the audience at that point thanks to 3 whole seasons of the TV series plus a decade off the air. Audiences could marinate in the fact that Shatner's Kirk was not the same virile young man he was 13 years earlier. 51-year-old Shatner only seems young to us now because we can compare him to present-day 89-year-old Shatner.
 
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