Word.
Plus the innate Klingon fear of tribbles would have them trembling in fear at the sight of Kirk's toupee.
For anyone who's read "Captain's Glory"...
- Thread starter WarsTrek1993
- Start date
Word.
Plus the innate Klingon fear of tribbles would have them trembling in fear at the sight of Kirk's toupee.
Sorry, pet peeve, but what does that even mean? "Warrior" is a job description, not a genetic trait. It's like saying "a race of bus drivers." Worf was raised by a kindly human couple from the age of 6, and grew up in the Federation, the most peaceful environment in the known galaxy. He chose to embrace a Klingon identity and "warrior" mentality as a personal choice, but the fact is, he owes the bulk of his combat skills and experience to Starfleet, not to his ancestry.
It would be more accurate to say that Worf's advantage is that he's from a race of predators. Klingons descended from more carnivorous and predatory forebears than humans did, so their psychology is more aggressive, and they've adapted to that aggressive evolutionary history by developing superior physical strength and durability.
Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that most of the Klingons Kirk fought were QuchHa', so they probably weren't as strong as the HemQuch. The only HemQuch I can think of that we saw Kirk fight in canon is Kruge, and the only reason he ended up winning the fight is because the ground fell out from under Kruge. Before that it looked like the fight could have gone either way.
Sorry, I guess you're right. I'm looking at it from the point of view of Klingons generally being a species of Warrior, and that even then, as a Klingon raised by humans, he would have inherited some traits that would have given him some upper hand. I guess predator is the better word like you say, with "Warrior" being more of a descriptor. Still, I think he's proud of his ancestry, and the fact that he chose to embrace that mentality shows it. It reflects those who like to look into their historical background and family tree.
Yeah, but given the peaceful environment in which he was raised, I don't accept that just wanting to embrace the heritage of his "warrior" culture would, in and of itself, make him a superior fighter who should realistically have been capable of defeating Kirk. His physiological advantages and his Starfleet tactical training and experience are his main assets as a fighter, and the whole "warrior" thing is frankly kind of an affectation, given what a tiny part of his life has actually been spent living among Klingons.
Just a thought:
Perhaps for a Klingon, being a "warrior" is a more complex concept than just being someone who goes into battle as their profession or serves in the Klingon Defense Force.
Maybe it's a bit like the concept of jihad -- which can have multiple, sometimes conflicting, meanings depending upon which faction you're talking to. Maybe being a warrior is a spiritual concept -- maybe it can refer to everything from fighting within one's self as a metaphor for the internal struggle to live up to one's ethical standards; maybe it can encompass people whose jobs aren't associated with combat by Human standards, like a farmer. Perhaps something akin to the Angel wrestling with Jacob and so Jacob receiving the name of Israel.
Just a random, unfocused thought.
Perhaps for a Klingon, being a "warrior" is a more complex concept than just being someone who goes into battle as their profession or serves in the Klingon Defense Force.
Maybe it's a bit like the concept of jihad -- which can have multiple, sometimes conflicting, meanings depending upon which faction you're talking to. Maybe being a warrior is a spiritual concept -- maybe it can refer to everything from fighting within one's self as a metaphor for the internal struggle to live up to one's ethical standards; maybe it can encompass people whose jobs aren't associated with combat by Human standards, like a farmer. Perhaps something akin to the Angel wrestling with Jacob and so Jacob receiving the name of Israel.
Just a random, unfocused thought.
Well considering the main novelverse has over 100 year old Elias Vaughn as being able to kick ass in a fight it's not too much of a stretch, remember 60 is the new 40 in the trekverse.
Well, there's plenty of evidence that that's the case (see A Burning House in particular), but it still doesn't make the term "warrior race" any less of a simplistic stereotype. It's taking something that's cultural and learned and treating it as a universal genetic trait of the species, and that's never valid. We know from Enterprise: "Judgment" that the Klingons have a warrior class as a specific subset of their society, and that not all Klingons belong to it. That class has dominated Klingon civilization politically and culturally since maybe the early 22nd century (Kolos's dialogue in "Judgment" suggests the change was during his lifetime), but its values are not a universal genetic norm for the entire species. The problem is that most of the Klingons we've met in ST have been members of the military or the warrior-class nobility that rules the Empire, so we've gotten a skewed and limited picture of what Klingons are or could be.
True enough, Christopher. Like I said, humans do like to dig into the ancestry side of things, so maybe there's that curiosity that made him want to embrace it? He was certainly pushing Alexander into embracing it, likely because didn't have that growing up and wanted to have something to give to the Klingon Empire.
What you say about us having a limited view of the Empire is very true as well. It would be interesting to see more of the political side of it, and the overall culture including other professions.
Has there been a book that has explored him growing among humans? Sounds like it would be a fascinating topic to explore, along with his decision to join Starfleet. I don't remember it ever being elaborated on.
I haven't read it myself, so I don't know how in depth it is, but I believe A Burning House does explore some of the non-Warrior elements of the Klingon culture. I'm pretty sure I remember reading people talking about scenes with farmers and some stuff dealing with an opera company.
The closest thing I can think of is Peter David's trilogy of Starfleet Academy young-adult books about Worf's early days in the Academy.
I do remember seeing that, perhaps at a library. A Young Adult novel, right? I never read it, but I'd love to see the topic revisited, in a similar scale to A Stitch in Time and Lives of Dax.
Wait wait wait.
Humans aren't a race of bus drivers?
Well now I'm going to have to start this fanfiction epic over from scratch. >
It's the same thing that happens when people insist that the Federation is some kind of military dictatorship, since Starfleet people are always calling the shots in the show.
Hah, that's funny. That would be completely going against Roddenberry's vision, David 
I never got that impression. JD's right. It's always been very clear, although I suppose there are some people who'd think that.
I never got that impression. JD's right. It's always been very clear, although I suppose there are some people who'd think that.
I have come across one or two people who did think the Federation was a military state. It comes from failing to realize that telling all the shows from a Starfleet perspective gives a limited and biased view of life in the Federation. Imagine if you only knew the United States from watching Rat Patrol, M*A*S*H, and China Beach. You might think the US was a military dictatorship too, if you didn't recognize the selection bias inherent in the shows you were watching.
Of course, it doesn't help when some writers and filmmakers occasionally treat "Starfleet" and "the Federation" as interchangeable, like having all those people in Starfleet uniform in the ST IV Federation Council chamber, or having Pike refer to the Federation as an "armada."
Of course, it doesn't help when some writers and filmmakers occasionally treat "Starfleet" and "the Federation" as interchangeable, like having all those people in Starfleet uniform in the ST IV Federation Council chamber, or having Pike refer to the Federation as an "armada."
Very true, Christopher, and I think that goes for a lot of things shown on TV.
Didn't Kirk's Borg nano probes give him some advantage? It brought it back from the dead.
Yep, another reason why I didn't like The Return. Like I said, Ashes of Eden was fantastic. The Return and all the other books in the series that followed it were more like science-fantasies that happened to be set in the Trek universe and centered around Kirk being better than everyone else, despite his age. If anyone else from the different crews were present, it was to show how much better he was than them after having returned from the dead. If I remember right, the books kept on harping how much much better he was. So, the fact that Kirk beat up Worf using nano probes underscores what I've been saying. It undermines the value of both characters.
Similar threads
