Flesh and Blood and holograms

[exodus]

Thank you for broadening our field of argument.

I'd more liken it to the arguments of the 19th century and before that black people had no souls so they didn't have to be treated like real people, a belief which kept on trucking well after the abolition of slavery.

You're very welcome.

That was going to be my next example, I'm glad you noticed it and brought it up first.

 

[exodus]

The Doctor was in a military environment, he even told janeway that he out ranked her when it came to her health. If he was a civilian, he wouldn't even mention that.
Let's face it, the doctor was spoilt rotten and any other character on Voyager would have envied the freedom and leeway he was given by Janeway. He was obviously written to show the plight of the down trodden and the oppressed minorities, for me though, he just highlighted how those that whine the most get the most. Kim never moaned about his lot in life to the crew or Janeway and after 7 years, he was still an ensign.
Lesson for all of you, complain and you will get more. Of course no one will be able to stand being around you but you will get more.

Yes, us poor minorities whining about wanting to be treated equally. Shame on us for not wanting to be slave labor, racially profiled or wanting the break thru the corporate glass ceiling. Why, oh why couldn't we just be happy shining shoes?

Does anybody ever read anything but science fiction or comic books around here?

 

[GrowlingDog]

I think you missed my point. The sentiment that we are created equal was what the writers set out to do and i commend them for that. Unfortunately, they took it to the extreme and ended up creating a Doctor that could and did get away with anything. He was no longer being treated as an equal but as a superior. harry Kim waited ages to get the nightshift Captains seat, within one season the Doctor was able to use the ECH. Now you tell me that no one on Voyager would not have been just a little pissed off with the lenient way Janeway treated the Doctor. Come on.

 

[Michael]

Now you tell me that no one on Voyager would not have been just a little pissed off with the lenient way Janeway treated the Doctor. Come on.

Well, I don't know about exodus, but basically I would tell you exactly that.

 

[exodus]

I think you missed my point. The sentiment that we are created equal was what the writers set out to do and i commend them for that. Unfortunately, they took it to the extreme and ended up creating a Doctor that could and did get away with anything. He was no longer being treated as an equal but as a superior. harry Kim waited ages to get the nightshift Captains seat, within one season the Doctor was able to use the ECH. Now you tell me that no one on Voyager would not have been just a little pissed off with the lenient way Janeway treated the Doctor. Come on.

When Harry was given a Captain's chair in "Nightingale" he fucked up, the Doctor didn't when given ECH. The Doctor knew command procedures that Harry still didn't. The Doctor could go on hazardous away missions others couldn't. I some ways the Doc. is superior, however he was also given the same free pass as all the others he worked with. Didn't Janeway bring Tom Paris onboard because she believed he deserved a second chance, which is the same privilage she gave to all the other Maquis. Didn't Janeway also tell Kashyk in "Counterpoint" that she'd welcome him onboard Voyager as a member of the crew if he had only been true to his word? All that after he harrassed & abused her crew. How many chances did Janeway give Seven?

Punishing the Doctor only sends the message that it's wrong to be different, think for yourself and find a just cause to back. It would send the message that it's wrong for miniorities to want to exist an be amoung their own culture. That's the message the show is trying to convey by not punishing him. Janeway's end speech to him even implies it.

 

[exodus]

Now you tell me that no one on Voyager would not have been just a little pissed off with the lenient way Janeway treated the Doctor. Come on.

Well, I don't know about exodus, but basically I would tell you exactly that.

If I was a member of the crew and Janeway didn't punish me for a misstep I made(Tuvok, Be'Lanna, especially Neelix who has no rank and is only a civilian) I'd think it would be pretty selfish and short sighted of me to wish it upon another crewman I called "friend". I wouldn't be a good friend if I sought revenge upon another.

If she didn't throw Neelix off the ship for dealing with drug dealers/smugglers and he wasn't military or a offical member of the crew. There's a good chance she wouldn't do it to anybody else.

 

[kimc]

The Doctor was in a military environment, he even told janeway that he out ranked her when it came to her health. If he was a civilian, he wouldn't even mention that.

This is an excellent point. If you're going to call yourself part of Starfleet in order to order the captain around then you'd better be calling yourself Starfleet when it's time to face the consequences of your actions.

 

[exodus]

The Doctor was in a military environment, he even told janeway that he out ranked her when it came to her health. If he was a civilian, he wouldn't even mention that.

This is an excellent point. If you're going to call yourself part of Starfleet in order to order the captain around then you'd better be calling yourself Starfleet when it's time to face the consequences of your actions.

Hmm, I could have sworn the the Doctor did. There must be two different versions of this episode, I guess.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The Doctor was in a military environment, he even told janeway that he out ranked her when it came to her health. If he was a civilian, he wouldn't even mention that.

This is an excellent point. If you're going to call yourself part of Starfleet in order to order the captain around then you'd better be calling yourself Starfleet when it's time to face the consequences of your actions.

Hmm, I could have sworn the the Doctor did. There must be two different versions of this episode, I guess.

I'm thinking of when he brought up that position in Year of Hell, and she told him to go to hell and threatened to turn him off. I.E' "Don't fuck with the Janeway". But the CMO does outrank the captain in medical issues, but then we saw aboard Enterprise in hatchery to name just the once, that when the captain goes insane using medical grounds to legitimize a coup isn't a seamless tack.

Although when he ordered her to have sex in Fairhaven. She followed that order. How oddly respectful.

O'Brien despite not being an officer was promoted to tactical officer aboard the Ruttledge, and the entire Maquis... they are all civilians no matter that they wear those uniforms, since between Tom leaving for that hedgehog convoy or Janeway saying the hole crew can bog off in the 37s... She's not bolting the Door for anyone except maybe Suder and the Equinox 5, if they're unhappy with her as a person or a monster.

I think you missed my point. The sentiment that we are created equal was what the writers set out to do and i commend them for that. Unfortunately, they took it to the extreme and ended up creating a Doctor that could and did get away with anything. He was no longer being treated as an equal but as a superior. harry Kim waited ages to get the nightshift Captains seat, within one season the Doctor was able to use the ECH. Now you tell me that no one on Voyager would not have been just a little pissed off with the lenient way Janeway treated the Doctor. Come on.

When Harry was given a Captain's chair in "Nightingale" he fucked up, the Doctor didn't when given ECH. The Doctor knew command procedures that Harry still didn't. The Doctor could go on hazardous away missions others couldn't. I some ways the Doc. is superior, however he was also given the same free pass as all the others he worked with. Didn't Janeway bring Tom Paris onboard because she believed he deserved a second chance, which is the same privilage she gave to all the other Maquis. Didn't Janeway also tell Kashyk in "Counterpoint" that she'd welcome him onboard Voyager as a member of the crew if he had only been true to his word? All that after he harrassed & abused her crew. How many chances did Janeway give Seven?

Punishing the Doctor only sends the message that it's wrong to be different, think for yourself and find a just cause to back. It would send the message that it's wrong for miniorities to want to exist an be amoung their own culture. That's the message the show is trying to convey by not punishing him. Janeway's end speech to him even implies it.

To get the Nightingale gig Kim bitched like a little baby. "If I was in the AQ I would have been a lieutenant commander by now or a Commander." And to that... Janeway laughed at him. Laughed and laughed. No respect. Then when she decided to humour the punk, offering a Big brother to watch over his "command" because he's a moron, Kim said something like 'No that's not fair! I want to do it myself!" while I swear he was sucking his thumb, holding his breath and stamping his foot as petulantly as possible. And then he fucked it all up completely as Exodus said just to prove that Janeway should never have faith in this dolt again who is about the same age as Will Riker was in the beginning of TNG during this seventh season catastrophe.

Maybe that's why he had as much self esteem as a handbag full of shit that he not only revelled in his lack of prospect on the command track at the end of Nightingale but later allowed the doctor, a bloody computer, to defend the ship in Workforce which is just adding insult to injury that Janeway would rather make command straff than trust and train Kim.

O, and when Tom got his Pips back, to again resume his role as THIRD Officer ( He was XO in Resolutions. the entire crew wanted to dump Tom out an airlock in the pilot before he was placed three heartbeats away from the captains chair.) Harry asked "Where's mine?" with all seriousness like he's in some dysfunctional family where the parents don't even pretend to love their kids the same.

Harry Kim is a shining example of nothing wonderful to no one.

 

[GrowlingDog]

To get the Nightingale gig Kim bitched like a little baby. "If I was in the AQ I would have been a lieutenant commander by now or a Commander." And to that... Janeway laughed at him. Laughed and laughed. No respect. Then when she decided to humour the punk, offering a Big brother to watch over his "command" because he's a moron, Kim said something like 'No that's not fair! I want to do it myself!" while I swear he was sucking his thumb, holding his breath and stamping his foot as petulantly as possible. And then he fucked it all up completely as Exodus said just to prove that Janeway should never have faith in this dolt again who is about the same age as Will Riker was in the beginning of TNG during this seventh season catastrophe.

Maybe that's why he had as much self esteem as a handbag full of shit that he not only revelled in his lack of prospect on the command track at the end of Nightingale but later allowed the doctor, a bloody computer, to defend the ship in Workforce which is just adding insult to injury that Janeway would rather make command straff than trust and train Kim.

O, and when Tom got his Pips back, to again resume his role as THIRD Officer ( He was XO in Resolutions. the entire crew wanted to dump Tom out an airlock in the pilot before he was placed three heartbeats away from the captains chair.) Harry asked "Where's mine?" with all seriousness like he's in some dysfunctional family where the parents don't even pretend to love their kids the same.

Harry Kim is a shining example of nothing wonderful to no one.

Hahahahaha, oh thank you, that was hilarious and just what i needed after a tough day at work. No, i'm not being sarcastic, that was a great read, bloody hilarious.

Oh and if it makes everyone happy, yep the Doctor was awesome and they didn t need to change anything about him. Land rights for holograms i say, o'k, now there may have been a little sarcasm then.

 

[GrowlingDog]

O'k i've finished season 7 of Voyager now after about a 3 week marathon from season 2. Moving on to DS9 now and The Emissary. It's been so long since i watched any DS9 (never used to be a big fan) and have not watched every episode. Am hoping the experience from season 1 to 7 will be a good one (seem to remember that season 7 was great). Hey the Doc in DS9 isn't exactly all human either is he?

 

[kimc]

To get the Nightingale gig Kim bitched like a little baby. "If I was in the AQ I would have been a lieutenant commander by now or a Commander." And to that... Janeway laughed at him. Laughed and laughed. No respect. Then when she decided to humour the punk, offering a Big brother to watch over his "command" because he's a moron, Kim said something like 'No that's not fair! I want to do it myself!" while I swear he was sucking his thumb, holding his breath and stamping his foot as petulantly as possible. And then he fucked it all up completely as Exodus said just to prove that Janeway should never have faith in this dolt again who is about the same age as Will Riker was in the beginning of TNG during this seventh season catastrophe.

Maybe that's why he had as much self esteem as a handbag full of shit that he not only revelled in his lack of prospect on the command track at the end of Nightingale but later allowed the doctor, a bloody computer, to defend the ship in Workforce which is just adding insult to injury that Janeway would rather make command straff than trust and train Kim.

O, and when Tom got his Pips back, to again resume his role as THIRD Officer ( He was XO in Resolutions. the entire crew wanted to dump Tom out an airlock in the pilot before he was placed three heartbeats away from the captains chair.) Harry asked "Where's mine?" with all seriousness like he's in some dysfunctional family where the parents don't even pretend to love their kids the same.

Harry Kim is a shining example of nothing wonderful to no one.

Hahahahaha, oh thank you, that was hilarious and just what i needed after a tough day at work. No, i'm not being sarcastic, that was a great read, bloody hilarious.

Hilarious and also shows whining sometimes work. I'm in the process of negotiating salary for a new position. Unfortunately, I'm also fighting a stomach virus so jumping up and down isn't the best plan right now.