Five Year Mission

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Thanos007, Feb 15, 2019.

  1. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Wesley was a acting ensign, without being a commissioned officer. Kirk's time as a acting ensign could have been while he was still a academy cadet. Just as Pine-Kirk was a lieutenant whle still a third year acadeny cadet.
     
  2. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    Saavik was also a Lieutenant at the Academy.

    Kor
     
  3. MAGolding

    MAGolding Captain Captain

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    Part One: Dr. Piper.

    And here is another possibility mentioned in another thread:

    https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/did-mitchell-and-dehner-survive.298431/

    A thread that discusses whether Mitchell and Dehner faked their deaths in WNMHGB so Kirk would leave them alone.

    Post number five lists seven possible courses of action Kirk could have taken in regard to the corpses of Mitchel and/or Dehner. Course number five is:

    And:

    Part Two: When was David Marcus Born?

    Was Carol Marcus the "little blonde lab technician" Kirk almost married?

    Here is a link to a question about that and my answer to it:

    https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/140090/was-carol-marcus-the-little-blonde-lab-technician

    My calculations indicate that in my reconstruction of Kirk's career it would have been possible for the "little blonde lab technician" to have been Carol Marcus, but there was only a narrow time range when it was chronologically possible.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
  4. Henoch

    Henoch Captain Premium Member

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    A one-night stand takes...only one night. How narrow do you need? Anything more is now dating or a relationship.
     
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  5. lawman

    lawman Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, whether the little blonde lab tech was Carol or someone else, we do know that Kirk "almost married her." Presumably that involved more time than a one-night stand!...
     
  6. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I still don't think that was the first mission. I think it was the end of an entire unseen 1st season of missions.
     
  7. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Thanks. Corrected.

    That's what I get for posting at 2AM...
     
  8. Kerock

    Kerock Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Wasn't there personnel and uniform changes during the 3 seasons. Can those be charted to the 5 year mission timeline.
     
  9. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, Kirk was an Ensign aboard the Republic "some years" after Kirk was a Midshipman. Or, alternately, "some years" after Ben Finney named his daughter after Jim Kirk.

    It's actually pretty difficult to squeeze Kirk's Ensign year within his Academy studies, at least those preceding his graduation. Not to mention ultimately unsatisfactory and unnecessary. Letting Kirk graduate first to obtain his Ensign rank the usual way presents us with no problems, because we have to accept that Kirk would be an instructor at Lieutenant rank, hence being at the Academy in a role not relating to his own studies.

    And Picard was a Captain at the Academy, in "First Duty". Doesn't tell us much about his exact academic status.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  10. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    That's different. Saavik was "at the academy" as a trainee taking an exam when already a commissioned Lieutenant.

    Kor
     
  11. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yup. So we learn that rank and being at the Academy do not actually offer much information about one's career path: one can be at the Academy at just about any rank, and be involved in studies in some fashion (undergraduate, postgraduate, instructor, outside evaluator or mentor, whatnot). Kirk can do the no-win test as a Cadet, Saavik as a Lieutenant; nothing rules out a character doing it as Ensign or perhaps Lieutenant Commander, considering Spock skipped it altogether despite making Captain.

    In the case of Kirk, this leaves us with the choice between Occam's Razor and Hollywood's Fake Beard Glue. Did Kirk duly graduate, have adventures as Ensign, have instructor duties as Lieutenant, and then finally "leave the Academy" in some fashion? Or did he only graduate after reaching Lieutenant rank, this graduation marking his "leaving the Academy"? There's something to be said for either approach.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  12. Henoch

    Henoch Captain Premium Member

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    Again, something odd occurred around Kirk's senior year at Academy; some training mission or conflict which gets him into Ensign rank earlier than normal. (Officer commissions fly around during war-footing events.)
    • As for Saavik, she could be a transfer from the Vulcan whatever Academy or the Vulcan Defense Force into Starfleet (sort like T'pol in ENT) given the rank of Lieutenant. She's at the Starfleet Academy catching up on necessary course work and training required for all new Starfleet officers before she can commence active duty. The Maru Test is one such test. An evaluation voyage on a training vessel is another requirement.
    • Kirk took the test 3 times because it could had been a brand new training requirement which he thought was an unfair test of command ability. He was trying to make a point to the Academy which apparently he fails to make since the damn test still exists 30 years later. Maybe the Academy presented the test as something else at first, "a command ability test", but after Kirk's accommodation for original thinking, the test was modified somewhat and now presented to the student as "character building exercise" so they are not under the illusion that the failing to win is not failure of command ability.
    • Spock never took the test because it didn't exist when he graduated (hence before Kirk?). The JJ-Spock doesn't jive with the TWOK-Spock where in one universe he never takes the test and in the other he invents the test. :wtf: If he invents the test in both universes, then in the prime, Spock must be sworn to secrecy that he invented it and doesn't tell Kirk this in TWOK. Or maybe Spock didn't have the heart to tell him that his best friend was his nemesis behind the test. ?
     
  13. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Or they've both known that fact for so long that neither one of them bothers to comment on it.
     
  14. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not on watching Stardate or BBC ordering! :techman:
    JB
     
  15. Henoch

    Henoch Captain Premium Member

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    Corrections to my previous timeline: Based on Court Marital, the Republic is definitely not a training vessel but still seems an older ship based on its number and since a simple circuit mistake could result in the blowing up the ship. A newer ship would at least have alarm bells to detect those errors. Kirk has graduated Academy with rank of Ensign (not Lt.), and gets assigned to the Republic years after meeting instructor Lt. Finney at Academy. Kirk may have graduated in 3 years (as suggested by the ST09 movie), making him 21 as Ensign.

    In The Menagerie, Pike is rescuing cadets in an old J-Class ship with bad baffles. It's a shame that Starfleet didn't put up the resources for the best training facilities and equipment. At least they may have learn their lessons during the Movie era. Even though Saavik is training on an old, 40 year old starship, 10 years since its last refit with no more refits planned, the ship is in remarkably excellent condition.
     
  16. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly, but Richard Arnold once pointed out at a convention (and he likes to pretend TAS never happened), the TOS Stardates do range from numbers that start with "1" up to numbers that start with "5", so he liked to assume that TOS represented the whole 5YM. (TNG stardates ranged from "41..." to "47...": representing the seven seasons.)

    I remember seeing the two lists Bjo Trimble compiled in her first commercial version of the "ST Concordance". Because TAS star dates are so random, they definitely do not comfortable sort when TOS is placed in Stardate Order.

    For my own purposes, I prefer TOS in production order, followed by TAS in "Star Trek Log" order (since Alan Dean Foster's novelisations carry overarching narrative across the episodes, and he gives them all brand new stardates).

    As noted by the Timeliners, the hardcover novel, "Prime Directive", is the perfect novel defining the end of TOS and the beginning of TAS.
     
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  17. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What order did ADF have the episodes in?
     
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  18. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I read them all as a child in the 80s, and remember almost nothing.... damn.
     
  19. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Shit. I accidentally agreed with Richard Arnold about something.

    I'm going to need a moment.
     
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  20. Henoch

    Henoch Captain Premium Member

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    I believe Production Order gives the most consistency to TOS, but I still poke around and look at stardate order for fun. Episode Order or the Production Order never indicate how many years have passed, but Stardate does suggest 5 years occurred over the Series. It usually doesn't matter in 95% of the episodes (including the 6 undated episodes), but then there's those "misunderstood" 4-5 episodes (I won't call it "random"). Some days I want to just retcon those stardates, but instead, I'm open to suggestions that stardates can vary a little based on where you are in the galaxy. Galaxy timezones could work, but I haven't heard of a great system, yet. Does it vary by 10's to 100's stardates based distance from the galaxy center, or based on distance from Earth along the galaxy arc length, or both or neither? A 10 to 100 stardate adjustment will easily fix all of the problems, and most can be fixed with only about a 20 stardate adjustment.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
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