First-Timer's Impressions of Enterprise

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by Jimmy Bob, Jul 6, 2009.

  1. commodore64

    commodore64 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Nice review of the Vulcan trilogy. I agree. It's my favorite in the series. The Forge can't be beaten.
     
  2. miriel68

    miriel68 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Am I the only one who doesn't like the IVth season? :confused: I did like the topics they picked there but then was always disappointed about how they carried them on. In the case of Vulcan Trylogy I loved the idea of the corrupt Vulcan government but I was not able to see any logic in the plot development. Why on Earth (on Vulcan?) the put the bomb in the Earth embassy in first place? What did they want to achieve? Why did they implicate humans if they didn't want to have them there? If they wanted to get rid of T'Pau and company they should have put a bomb in some important Vulcan sanctuary, in order to convince the Vulcans that Syrannits have to be eliminated. From the very first minute is seems quite idiotic that Syrannits should try to carry a terrorist attack against humans :confused:
    I also didn't like Archer being transformed in a kind of superhero in IVth season. Yes, he saved the world in the IIIrd season but still, he managed to remain a human who happened to become a hero. In the IVth season he is saving Universe in almost every episode :vulcan:
    Nontheless, Vulcan trylogy makes a nice watch.
     
  3. commodore64

    commodore64 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't hate the 4th season, but as a whole I find it disappointing. It went down the right track, but didn't deliver. Without giving away anything, I think the episodes after the andorian arc start to really hit the old trash can (other than Observer Effect). Bound, for example, was terrible. I don't think much of Demons or Terra Prime either. Reeves-Stevens made the 4th season and from my understanding, they were hampered quite a bit.

    Yeah, the Vulcan arc gave me hope.
     
  4. Jimmy Bob

    Jimmy Bob Commander Red Shirt

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    So this has been as good as it gets, all downhill from here?

    Daedalus

    Hmm... reminds me of Jetrel. True, very Enterprised. A lot more sons of bitches flying around, tension and screaming between crew members, certain disgust/love relationship between a daughter and a father, a much more natural dialogue and character approach... did I mention those "son of bitches" and "god damns"? Enterprise has it's own style but not even this style can't refreshen old rehashed plots. Not impressed.

    T'Pol/Trip doesn't seem to be very healthy. T'Pol has had this "sad broken girl with issues" act for over a season now. She's always very intensely broken lately. I wonder if they're going to play out this non-nurturing factor of their relationship? Hope T'Pol doesn't become a Kir'Shara fanatic. I liked her as a skeptic, with a touch of cynicism and bitterness.
     
  5. HopefulRomantic

    HopefulRomantic hyperpolypyroferricist redux Moderator

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    It'll be up to you to decide for yourself, but there are plenty of folks here (myself included) who would say there are many fine episodes ahead. :)
     
  6. pookha

    pookha Admiral Admiral

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    they (the romulans and vulcans sympathetic to them) wanted to get humans out of the way and to throw a lot of angst and distrust around.

    i need to go back and check but i dont think a human was ever implicated.
    but rather they wanted to split humans away from vulcan at time when both fleets were about to do joint maneuvers ect..

    thowing suspicion the syrannites was a distraction while they prepped plan b which was to start a war with the andorians.

    to me the plan seemed to be to cut off vulcans from their potential ally (humans) while weakening them in war with andoria.
    then the romulans would have come in and mopped up.

    now later on in another episode the romulans will try to implicate humans and start yet another mess.
     
  7. Jimmy Bob

    Jimmy Bob Commander Red Shirt

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  8. Jimmy Bob

    Jimmy Bob Commander Red Shirt

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    Observer Effect


    This felt more like a season 1 episode. Or possibly season 2. I think it would have fitted better there since for example Hoshi's characterization has her still waxing poetical about life on Brazil. But... I liked it. Perhaps it was the recent attempt to watch TNG's season 1 and as such certain differences were more obvious and striking. Season 1 of TNG is really unnatural, every episode has some theme that refers back to what is wrong with the humanity in 1980's and then Picard makes a lecture on how enlightened Gene Rodenberry's ideas are. And very stilted acting. So coming from that and then witnessing a much more natural acting style and dialogue unhold was much more pleasant. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those deviant "TNG sucks!" sexuals. I love TNG seasons 3 and 4 with a passion. I was just reasoning what made me like this episode.

    I loved Hoshi's and Trip's shared moments. And loved Archer. Bakula has really perfected Archer. His eyes, body language, facial gestures. Very subtle.

    I've been noticing that Travis and Malcolm spend a lot of time together in season 4. Of course this time they were possessed by aliens, but at first I thought I had to make a claim like this since I have noticed that they pair somewhat in this season. Lucky Anthony, this is the most acting he has done since late season 2. Good for him.

    So. Judging by Hoshi's Brazil moment, this would have fitted season ½ more. It's really sad that Hoshi hasn't had a really personally meaningful journey. She's still stuck in that "Brazil – Good. Enterprise – Scary" thing. But hopefully Linda will get a bone before this show is over. But I really enjoyed seeing Hoshi get some non-expositional dialogue again. That story about breaking some guy's arm. :) And Trip's story about breaking the dining table in thanksgiving... when he was 25! :lol: This is incredibly relaxed and laid-back. This is actually what season 1 promised. These friendly laidback beer drinking-just talking moments. But Enterprise hasn't really delivered on this. I blame season 2.

    Meh story. But has some nice acting moments in it. Hopefully I can get some more bang again like the two previous three-parters.
     
  9. bluedana

    bluedana Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Observer Effect is my favorite S4 episode. It's the best kind of bottle episode - a simple story that depends on characterization to make it work. Aside from Hoshi's bad girl side, we mostly reinforce what we already know about the characters, but in a way that's really satisfying. You have Trip who is valiantly trying to remain upbeat because he can tell that Archer is on the verge of falling apart. You have T'Pol who, through subtle facial expressions and tone of voice, conveys how much she cares about Archer and Trip. You have Phlox, who takes the loss of any crew member as a personal failure. And you have Archer, who will do absolutely everything he can to save his crew. My favorite scene is when alien-Travis asks Archer if he really would have approached the Klingons for information (knowing, of course that there is still a bounty on his head from his escape from Rura Penthe, so he'd be a dead man), and Archer says, "On bended knee." That whole sickbay scene, with Phlox and Archer desperately trying to save Hoshi and Trip, and failing, was probably the first time I cried watching Trek since Data lost Lal.

    I agree that it felt like S1 or S2, but to me, that's because it was so very clear how much these crew members cared about each other, and that closeness was missing by necessity in S3. (By the way, I'm pretty sure Trip was joking about being 25 that infamous Thanksgiving.)

    I love this episode, and I think it's one of the best in all the Trek I've seen.
     
  10. Jimmy Bob

    Jimmy Bob Commander Red Shirt

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    Yeah, moments like this make you wonder what are those "Bakula's acting sucks!" people smoking. Bakula's acting is less diva-style than previous captains. I don't have the academic vocabulary for it, but I'd say Shatner, Mulgrew and Stewart have a more diva-style. Very expressive body language and dialogue delivery. Stewart has that dignity thing, but Shatner and Mulgrew perform in a way like they're actively enjoying themselves and their acting. Mulgrew is especially like that, waving her hands like she has a glass of scotch in them and... nothing wrong with it. I enjoy all the captains for their individual touches, but Bakula's and in fact the whole crew's acting style is different in Enterprise. It's like just some... I think... I guess I have to come back to it when I have figured out what I'm exactly trying to say.
     
  11. bluedana

    bluedana Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't know if this is what you're getting at, JimmyBob, but, to me, the ENTcast, unlike the prior casts, don't seem so stagey and dramatic. Maybe it's the claustrophobic nature of the NX01, but their conversations feel more like conversations and less like find your mark, strike your pose and declaim to the back row seats. More intimate, less theatrical.
     
  12. commodore64

    commodore64 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I've long ago stopped trying to understand that one. I think Bakula was awesome and Archer was an enjoyable hero - pitfalls and triumphs.
     
  13. Jimmy Bob

    Jimmy Bob Commander Red Shirt

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    The Uneven Somewhat Mishandled Saga

    This saga was a bit mishandled. It wasn't like the previous two where each episode did it's part to lead the viewer into exciting and fantastic finale. It was more like 2+1 deal. There's the two-parter Babel One and United, plus the episode Aenar.

    Aenar is much more beautiful than the others because everything Andorian is unbelivably good. I can't believe how undeveloped the andorians were before Enterprise. How come no one realized that andorians were cool before? It's just I want more.. and I know I won't.

    Then there was the Tellarite two-parter. I have to be honest. I found Babel One to be boring and a bit awkward. There was something off. But United really blew it. In a good way. Malcolm&Trip on the ship was an exciting action story, and Shran's tale was very captivating and it ended in a pretty cool fighting scene.

    But here's the thing. United ended on a conclusive note. There's a bit... a big leap in general tone. Aenar delivers a much more tender story leaded by Alexandra Lydon. Andoria is cool, all the sets are amazing, the tone is beautiful, a lot of tender intimate moments.... and it's just sad that as a finale Aenar sucks. Aenar deserved it's own story, not this "oh great, we have to finish this but we don't know how."

    So the good:

    1) Trip&Malcolm make a great couple in danger. Their adventures were for me the most exciting thing in United.

    2) They have this diplomatical thing. There's tension. Archer solves it. And then some Tellarite grabs a gun and kills Shran's love. After Archer saved the day. And she died. This unfortunate twist really made this much more interesting.

    3) Babel One ends with the discovery that the ship is a drone and that the guys we thought were on the ship were actually on Romulus. United ends with the discovery that the ship is controlled by some andorian guy. Aenar ends with a touching dialogue between Archer and Trip. Each episode has a really great ending that makes you want more.

    4) Trip leaving. I really want to see how this turns out. But it's a logical conclusion. It's just something we haven't seen happening yet between cast members.

    5) Everything to do with andorians and Andoria. And all those intimate character moments in Aenar.

    6) Alexandra Lydon

    The Bad:

    1) First it's about forming an alliance which the romulans try to subvert. Some really personal things happen... and then an alliance is formed and we even don't see those Tellarites anymore. Suddenly it's just about destroying some ship.

    And Aenar, despite delivering fan service for an hungry andorianphile like myself and having some nice moments, is a really crap finale. The things that Malcolm and Trip did in United were far more exciting.

    2) I'm really getting tired of these ridiculously evil villains. The Lizard Guy in Xindi Season. Malik in Augments. Vulcan High Command Leader in Vulcan Saga. And the Romulan Brian Thompson in this trilogy? What they all have in common? They're all very ridiculously evil. They all have this second-in-command guy who is like "My God! I just can't believe how evil you are!"

    Lizard Guy had insectoid's going like that. Malik had Soong. Vulcan Leader had another vulcan senator. And this romulan guy had his second-in-command. Actually the Vulcan High Command Leader and this Romulan Brian Thompson are almost identical. And all these villains are just going "I'm evil, I'll destroy everyone!"

    But Xindi season at least had Degra. Augments had Brent Spiner getting finally a character he deserves. Vulcan saga had a really great tale about religion and identity and "official" truths. But this... we get the 4th ridiculously comic-bookish villain who is just too evil... and that's it. And I'm just craving for a more nuanced character. Or even a different character. They're all the same type. Okay Malik is more unique, but the lizard guy, evil vulcan and this romulan are pretty much the same type.

    3) Romulans. It's just that they're so... boring. I understand that Earth-Romulan war needed a set up... but, I just don't care for romulans. Okay perhaps it's just that Enterprise doesn't do them very interestingly. No, it's not just Enterprise. The romulans were great in TNG season 3 though.

    4) Anthony's great acting moment of the season. That was just so awkwardly written and acted. I mean, they've been through season 3. Archer went on a suicide mission. And only now Travis is like "I'm worried about the captain." Poor Anthony. It just felt so fake. Even Linda looked quite "let's just get this over with, but we all know what this really is." So they discuss the fight and their discussion doesn't add anything. That cutting the antenna would have worked just as well without it. Harry Kim at least got to do some jokes and stuff. Travis gets nothing.
     
  14. HopefulRomantic

    HopefulRomantic hyperpolypyroferricist redux Moderator

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    "Observer Effect" is my favorite Enterprise episode. It's a classic example of putting characters under pressure and finding out what they're capable of as things get worse. The character interaction was great, the performances and production values and music were all top-notch for me. The whole sickbay sequence, Phlox and Archer trying to save Trip and Hoshi, the two Organians at odds with each other, Archer's last talk with T'Pol, Archer watching over Trip as he breathes his last, then pleading with the Organians to show compassion... I loved it all.

    I liked the Andorian trilogy a lot, too. Perhaps it's because I loved the Shran storyline in "The Aenar" so much. I think you have the right idea if you think of "Babel One" and "United" as the two-parter with the big finish, and "The Aenar" as a follow-up companion piece in which the characters deal with the fallout.

    The early scene in "Babel One" where Hoshi is teaching Archer to insult like a Tellarite is one of my favorite scenes in the whole series. The interaction between the two characters is so natural and fun. And then there's Archer goofing with Trip at the Tellarite meet-n-greet buffet. And Archer + Shran just can't be beat. There's a sense of growth, maturity, relationships evolving.

    There's a lot going on in "United," but I think I enjoyed the Archer-Shran storyline the most. They've both come a long way, and their obvious respect for each other added so much to the tensions between them. The scene where Archer goes to Shran's quarters to talk about the fight, and Shran gradually realizes he's going to be fighting Archer to the death... T'Pol's effort to talk Archer out of it... both really great scenes for the characters and their relationships.

    Very cool fight between Archer and Shran. I really liked the fight choreography, and that both actors were used for many of the shots.

    "The Aenar" (and a lot of "United" too) really belongs to Shran, and it was just wonderful to see Jeff Combs layering the character with even more nuance, pathos, and gentleness, without taking away any of his bluster or fierceness. There are many things I miss about not getting more seasons of Enterprise, but Shran, and his touching romance with Jhamel, and his byplay with Archer, are right up there at the top of the list.
     
  15. commodore64

    commodore64 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I thought this was so good, I wanted to call attention to it. I liked this about Observer Effect and I liked this about Twilight. Characters are best when life for them is at its worst.

    I really liked Babel One, maybe because I like seeing Tellarites again. We haven't really seen them (I mean really seen them, not in a Bounty way) since TOS. I think they filled out the species nicely. I do agree that baddies tend to be overly bad, with black hats and twirling mustaches. I guess that doesn't bother me as much as you. Sometimes seeing a really bad bad guy is ... well, fun. I mean, there has to be a mustache twirling baddie for a reason, right?

    I did feel like many of the season 4 episodes had large red circles and arrows that read: TOS! I mean, I've seen people who'd never seen TOS call out it was like TOS (just from commercials). Homage is fun. Blatant rip-off without an interesting story line though is well ... almost as bad as never acknowledging there was TOS. I think Enterprise would've been at its best when having like every fourth episode related to TOS that built on the overall arc of the story.

    I didn't really like Aenar. I thought the scenes between the brother and sister were a bit silly. I agree in it feeling rushed. I thought Trip seeking relationship advice from Phlox was interesting, but then ... he didn't follow it! It's like Trip learned very little on that front over the past four years. I think Trip is smarter than that. Oh well.

    Overall, the trilogy was fun, but I think all the "end of arc" episodes (Kirshara, etc.) felt disjointed and rushed.
     
  16. Jimmy Bob

    Jimmy Bob Commander Red Shirt

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    Once or twice maybe, but at the moment every baddie is like that.

    I was thinking more of scenes like this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEITN7YTE3g. Actually I didn't find a video that would just be a cut to Shran and Jhamel, but it's there on that video in 3:00.
     
  17. Jimmy Bob

    Jimmy Bob Commander Red Shirt

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    Klingon Jesus

    Affliction


    I really enjoyed Affliction. It felt relaxing somehow. I think it's because that so far every parter has been too focused on the mission, so it's just feels great to have this relaxing beginning focusing on the characters.

    Trip actually left Enterprise! And it feels natural. It might be fixed with the next episode... but it feels natural and not forced. It makes season 3 feel like it really matters. T'Pol is still teary-eyed and sad... though in that post-trauma way, and Trip's all getting screwed. As an Archer/T'Pol guy I appreciate that Trip/T'Pol is all messy and destructive. And the best part? Enterprise continued without Trip, going to find Phlox... and it's just crazy. I like this.

    And it was fun to finally see Hoshi's martial skills in action. And not to mention another normal klingon in the class of J.G Hertzler in Judgement, but with a cute pet. And Phlox got it good, being forced to let his core surface in a tough situation.

    But the best bone went to Malcolm. He hasn't had it this good since Minefield I'd say. Well, it's even better so he never has had it this good. That secret organization thing... no, that scene with Archer and Malcolm in captain's quarters, really great scene.

    This episode makes me think that Enterprise could have used more Earth in it. I really got a more livelier universe feeling with this episode. People changing jobs, cops on the scene of crime, secret meetings, first day on a new job, funny daydreams, personal conflicts...

    I've got nothing more to add really.
     
  18. HopefulRomantic

    HopefulRomantic hyperpolypyroferricist redux Moderator

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    I love that scene. I used it for a music video.

    I love that scene too! Very intense. Lots of cool stuff in this show -- Hoshi in civvies, mindmeld, Phlox and Antaak, Malcolm in the brig, white space bondspeak between Trip and T'Pol.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2009
  19. commodore64

    commodore64 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I was really disappointed in the Klingon episodes. I was mostly disappointed because perhaps I liked Worf's offhanded comment in DS9 that Klingons preferred not to talk about what happened in the "old days." I kinda felt like it was better off ignored. I mean, why not also explain why TOS women wore miniskirts? Or Romulans sometimes had ridges (Neanderthal brows) and sometimes didn't? Or why Kirk wore a different uniform when Shatner gained weight? Or .... It just, to me, felt like mindless fanwank. I know it's a fine line. In my opinion, they danced across while giving us the Bronx cheer.

    I did like Malcolm's plight -- loyalty to Enterprise vs. his ultra security past. As a huge fan of Archer, I was a bit upset with his response to the ordeal, especially a post-Xindi Archer.

    1) I really like Bakula's acting, but don't typically enjoy when he's madder than mad. I don't think it's his strength. His barking at Malcolm felt uncomfortable, but not in the way that made we want to shout, "Go get him!"

    2) I wonder if a post-Xindi Archer would be so willing to forgive. I mean, don't you think, despite Surak, that Archer would've at least asked for Malcolm to take non-Bridge duty? I do. I also think it'd make an interesting story because in my opinion, Malcolm might be more willing to help Section 31 again.
     
  20. Jimmy Bob

    Jimmy Bob Commander Red Shirt

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    Divergence

    I quite liked it. I really like the structure of this season. They get missions and then they go on them and it takes several episodes to solve the mission. If I ever happened to do a new Trek series I would emulate the structure of this season. And then spice it up with TEH INTENSE SEASON every now and then.

    I liked how they teamed up with Columbia... I'm already getting pre-regrets for this show having only 4 seasons. Right now I'm just imagining how there are two ships out there, sometimes they team up... whole new regular guest crew. Enterprise got it really rolling.

    But now we know why they don't want to talk about those old days. Every klingon started to look like Jesus, and they had to go through a big fashion change to get rid of those last few fanatics from Earth going on a pilgrimage to Klingon homeworld. I mean it's embarassing enough that you try to build a superrace and then end up being mixed with some new inferior upstart race... but all those new evangelical movements. Just crazy.

    I quite liked that there was no two dimensional baddie in this two-parter. It was just conflicting interests, everyone trying to save millions of lives in their own way.

    Season 1 klingons were too TNG, but from season 2 Enterprise klingons really have this higher intellectual quality to them. I like it.

    There are two Bakula-Malcolm captain's quarters scenes. One of them kinda fits your "madder than mad" description. But that's the one in Divergence. I was thinking of Affliction scene... were you thinking of the same one? I meant this one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxXQZG1iGKs

    Okay, not that one. That was just what I found and thought would be funny. I meant this one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJqT5Lyui4g (5:35 into that)

    Yeah, I guess you have a point. But would they have been able to bring it to a satisfying conclusion with the series cancelled and all?