First-Timer's Impressions of Deep Space Nine
- Thread starter Jimmy Bob
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Wow, it's been 11 days already. I just have no control over time, it's slipping through my fingers.
Truth is I just watched too much of season 3 in one sitting and I was too lazy to write all those reviews. Besides, there was Eurovision and alcohol involved.
House of Quark
In my season overview I wrote this about Quark: "Quark is sometimes the heroic Bogart and sometimes he's the annoying scared screaming in terror funny guy. Sometimes he's the brilliant businessman, sometimes he's the rogue with a heart of gold, sometimes he's caring, sometimes he's a complete bastard. Not completely consistent in my opinion."
The brilliance of this episode is that Quark is all that described above in this episode, but in this balancing and unifying way that is uniquely Quark. This is where they fixed the rough edges on Quark.
It was an awesome episode. I just could not believe that was Gowron, because usually episodes involving him are all so epic and serious. But here, klingons were just so ridiculous.
And the best moment? Rom: "Tell me the story again."
Truth is I just watched too much of season 3 in one sitting and I was too lazy to write all those reviews. Besides, there was Eurovision and alcohol involved.
House of Quark
In my season overview I wrote this about Quark: "Quark is sometimes the heroic Bogart and sometimes he's the annoying scared screaming in terror funny guy. Sometimes he's the brilliant businessman, sometimes he's the rogue with a heart of gold, sometimes he's caring, sometimes he's a complete bastard. Not completely consistent in my opinion."
The brilliance of this episode is that Quark is all that described above in this episode, but in this balancing and unifying way that is uniquely Quark. This is where they fixed the rough edges on Quark.
It was an awesome episode. I just could not believe that was Gowron, because usually episodes involving him are all so epic and serious. But here, klingons were just so ridiculous.
And the best moment? Rom: "Tell me the story again."
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Equilibrium
Ha! I knew that Trill society was a lie! All that nonsense about qualifying for joining and all that terror and psychological trauma they inflict upon young people, who as a result are stumped in their emotional growth as individuals. It's all just population control.
Sisko: "If anything happens to Jadzia..."
How many times are Sisko and Bashir going to have that dialogue? Didn't they already have it in that other Dax episode where Dax was in mortal danger? That one with Lex Luthor's dad.
Sisko: "Jadzia is like a daughter to me. If anything happens to her... A daughter that has perfect memory of us sharing women, threesome, wild orgies, random one-nighters..."
Bashir: "Yeah. I know what you mean."
Speaking of Jadzia and Bashir. Jadzia was just so helpless and girl-like around him. Gone was that unbearably smug, experience of a thousand lifetimes "Bashir? He's young" and "In a way, I feel we've invaded your privacy" woman.
You know,the more I see and know of Jadzia, the more I'm thinking that Jadzia is just begging for her to be written by Joss Whedon.
Neurotic, confident, scared, beautiful, scarred, worldly and wise, stupid and young, brave, strong, weak, fragile - a baggage of issues. Not to mention that the whole past hosts and multiple personalities thing is very Dollhouse.
I love a good conspiracy with psychological elements. I'm just one of those people to whom governments are always evil. And seeing how governments kill and lie about a living being, because his life would complicate their narrative, thus showing their inherent wrongness is just what my wet dreams are made of.
And the healing scene between Joran and Jadzia was touching as well.
Ha! I knew that Trill society was a lie! All that nonsense about qualifying for joining and all that terror and psychological trauma they inflict upon young people, who as a result are stumped in their emotional growth as individuals. It's all just population control.
Sisko: "If anything happens to Jadzia..."
How many times are Sisko and Bashir going to have that dialogue? Didn't they already have it in that other Dax episode where Dax was in mortal danger? That one with Lex Luthor's dad.
Sisko: "Jadzia is like a daughter to me. If anything happens to her... A daughter that has perfect memory of us sharing women, threesome, wild orgies, random one-nighters..."
Bashir: "Yeah. I know what you mean."
Speaking of Jadzia and Bashir. Jadzia was just so helpless and girl-like around him. Gone was that unbearably smug, experience of a thousand lifetimes "Bashir? He's young" and "In a way, I feel we've invaded your privacy" woman.
You know,the more I see and know of Jadzia, the more I'm thinking that Jadzia is just begging for her to be written by Joss Whedon.
Neurotic, confident, scared, beautiful, scarred, worldly and wise, stupid and young, brave, strong, weak, fragile - a baggage of issues. Not to mention that the whole past hosts and multiple personalities thing is very Dollhouse.
I love a good conspiracy with psychological elements. I'm just one of those people to whom governments are always evil. And seeing how governments kill and lie about a living being, because his life would complicate their narrative, thus showing their inherent wrongness is just what my wet dreams are made of.
And the healing scene between Joran and Jadzia was touching as well.
The House of Quark - great episode 
Second Skin
Awesome episode. Season 3 has just been so good to me. I don't have anything smart to say, so I'll just make these couple of observations.
Sisko just doesn't let Garak shine. No wonder Garak likes the company of Bashir. He let's Garak be in his "Garak - full mode".
And.
Would Garak kill Bashir? Would he kill Bashir if they happened to be in opposite sides in some situation and Bashir would be all "I can't let you do that"? He said he liked the legate. And he obviously likes Bashir. But how much? Does Garak love Bashir? After all they've been through, could he kill Bashir in cold-blood?
Awesome episode. Season 3 has just been so good to me. I don't have anything smart to say, so I'll just make these couple of observations.
Sisko just doesn't let Garak shine. No wonder Garak likes the company of Bashir. He let's Garak be in his "Garak - full mode".
And.
Would Garak kill Bashir? Would he kill Bashir if they happened to be in opposite sides in some situation and Bashir would be all "I can't let you do that"? He said he liked the legate. And he obviously likes Bashir. But how much? Does Garak love Bashir? After all they've been through, could he kill Bashir in cold-blood?
Second Skin is one of my favourites from DS9.
I think he would, though he'd probably be pretty sad about it.
I think he would, though he'd probably be pretty sad about it.
Second Skin and The House of Quark are among my favorite DS9 episodes. 
By this time, the show has already established this equation: Kira + Cardassians = guaranteed WIN. Great Kira episode, great Garak episode, great Cardassian episode. And now you know where my signature comes from. 
Oh, and BTW, I thought Kira looked great as a Cardie. It's interesting that the writer of the episode originally planned to have a more ambiguous ending that would leave the possibility that she may in fact be Iliana Ghemor, but I am glad that didn't happen. While this would have been a cool idea if the episode was a movie, the possibility of Kira being Cardassian would have seriously spoiled her character arc, which is based on her being an angry Bajoran learning to let go of her prejudices towards Cardassians, and her relationships with her Cardassian "father" Ghemor would have been less touching if there had been any possibility of her actually being his biological father.
Quark is always the best when he is not surrounded by the Ferengi as in the Ferengi comedy episodes, but when he is interacting with other characters, especially when the writers use him as a mouthpiece for their own sharp comment on some aspects of human, or in this case, Klingon culture (which was always a representation of human warrior cultures anyway). His speech to the Klingons was awesome - it was great to have Quark give a lesson to the Klingons about honor and courage. I like the Klingon episodes whenever they show that they're in fact not all that 'honorable' as they claim to be. "Honor" is in Klingon culture a catchphrase similar to "logic" for Vulcans, or things like "common good", "the right thing", "tolerance" "exploration", or "bettering ourselves" for Humans - they'll always swear by it, even when they're driven by completely different motives. (Though the Ferengi can be as hypocritical, only in the opposite way - their catchphrase is "profit", and they'll always say that they're doing everything for profit, even when they're in fact driven by compassion or affection. Quark tends to do that.) BTW, this episode was the first DS9 episode written by Ron Moore.
By this time, the show has already established this equation: Kira + Cardassians = guaranteed WIN.
Great Kira episode, great Garak episode, great Cardassian episode. And now you know where my signature comes from. Oh, and BTW, I thought Kira looked great as a Cardie. It's interesting that the writer of the episode originally planned to have a more ambiguous ending that would leave the possibility that she may in fact be Iliana Ghemor, but I am glad that didn't happen. While this would have been a cool idea if the episode was a movie, the possibility of Kira being Cardassian would have seriously spoiled her character arc, which is based on her being an angry Bajoran learning to let go of her prejudices towards Cardassians, and her relationships with her Cardassian "father" Ghemor would have been less touching if there had been any possibility of her actually being his biological father.Quark is always the best when he is not surrounded by the Ferengi as in the Ferengi comedy episodes, but when he is interacting with other characters, especially when the writers use him as a mouthpiece for their own sharp comment on some aspects of human, or in this case, Klingon culture (which was always a representation of human warrior cultures anyway). His speech to the Klingons was awesome - it was great to have Quark give a lesson to the Klingons about honor and courage. I like the Klingon episodes whenever they show that they're in fact not all that 'honorable' as they claim to be. "Honor" is in Klingon culture a catchphrase similar to "logic" for Vulcans, or things like "common good", "the right thing", "tolerance" "exploration", or "bettering ourselves" for Humans - they'll always swear by it, even when they're driven by completely different motives. (Though the Ferengi can be as hypocritical, only in the opposite way - their catchphrase is "profit", and they'll always say that they're doing everything for profit, even when they're in fact driven by compassion or affection. Quark tends to do that.) BTW, this episode was the first DS9 episode written by Ron Moore.
Oh, and BTW, I thought Kira looked great as a Cardie.
Yes, she did!
Second Skin is my very favourite episode of DS9. I love the concept and the execution is so good that I almost find myself believing that Kira is a Cardassian, even though I know it isn't so. I'm very interested in issues of identity and that was handled fantastically here. Ghemor was a great guest character and this is one of Garak's best outings as well.
The Abandoned
Now they're just hitting me on the head with Odo and Kira.
I must say that there's a huge change in quality between season 2 and 3. It's like the jump between TNG season 2 and 3, but with the difference that the first two seasons of DS9 weren't bad. They were actually quite good in some parts. Just suffered from a certain aimlessness.
But season 3 is making the first two seasons matter. It's building on the right parts in the right way. Like The Search II with Odo.
If I had seen The Search II, before I would have start writing my season overview, my analysis of Odo would have been quite different.
And all these small scenes like O'Brien trying to make life interesting for his wife, Sisko meeting with the girlfriend of his son, no Nog, Odo's new room, Sisko holding the baby, Sisko making food - it just builds and doesn't (seemingly) go to waste.
And perhaps it's just me, but event the lighting seems warmer somehow. I was rewatching some of season 1 and 2 stuff, and they look a bit grayer.
I'm now going to pretend that this is the result of the magic touch of Ronald D. Moore. Only he alone could bring such goodness with his presence.
So the Jem'Hadar are robots built in flesh and programmed by genetics? And they don't have a free will, but an instict they must follow. But Odo has a free will. Odo tried to do the same to the Jemmy, what he himself went through. Trying to take him outside the world, so he could see things uncolored by his culture. But Jem'Hadar is just too much of a biological being.
The individualist in me has some issues with that anyone could be so biological that they don't possess a free will or a capability to be above his culture or species.
But at least Odo is above his culture and species. A free man.
I guess I could take it as an allegory how not everyone wants to be free.
Now they're just hitting me on the head with Odo and Kira.
I must say that there's a huge change in quality between season 2 and 3. It's like the jump between TNG season 2 and 3, but with the difference that the first two seasons of DS9 weren't bad. They were actually quite good in some parts. Just suffered from a certain aimlessness.
But season 3 is making the first two seasons matter. It's building on the right parts in the right way. Like The Search II with Odo.
If I had seen The Search II, before I would have start writing my season overview, my analysis of Odo would have been quite different.
And all these small scenes like O'Brien trying to make life interesting for his wife, Sisko meeting with the girlfriend of his son, no Nog, Odo's new room, Sisko holding the baby, Sisko making food - it just builds and doesn't (seemingly) go to waste.
And perhaps it's just me, but event the lighting seems warmer somehow. I was rewatching some of season 1 and 2 stuff, and they look a bit grayer.
I'm now going to pretend that this is the result of the magic touch of Ronald D. Moore. Only he alone could bring such goodness with his presence.
So the Jem'Hadar are robots built in flesh and programmed by genetics? And they don't have a free will, but an instict they must follow. But Odo has a free will. Odo tried to do the same to the Jemmy, what he himself went through. Trying to take him outside the world, so he could see things uncolored by his culture. But Jem'Hadar is just too much of a biological being.
The individualist in me has some issues with that anyone could be so biological that they don't possess a free will or a capability to be above his culture or species.
But at least Odo is above his culture and species. A free man.
I guess I could take it as an allegory how not everyone wants to be free.
Bingo. This is what we needed more of with Quark. I wonder if the all-Ferengi subplot had a strong following while the show was on the air, or whether someone in the writing staff just couldn't get enough of Rom, Brunt and the Nagus?
There must be some reason why we end up with so many episodes involving massed Ferengi despite the fact that Quark blatantly works much better when used in other ways.
Oh, and BTW, I thought Kira looked great as a Cardie.
She really does. Garak's comment at the end is entirely warranted. As I recall, Nana Visitor had an extremely difficult time in the full Cardassian make-up, though, which probably contributes to the vividness of her growing frustration with her new features over the course of this episode, particularly in those sequences where she starts clawing at her skin.
I would have hated that. I just hate these kind of retcons were suddenly people are not who who they thought they are. Like Will and Thomas Riker. Suddenly Riker wasn't real anymore. In that episode anyway, since one later ignores stuff like that.
It's great if this is the direction for the character from the beginning, but it sucks when it happens like several seasons into the character and from no where.
As alone, these ideas make for good sci-fi. Like O'Brien in Whispers. But if they happen with characters that have fed you a different thing for 3 or 6 years. Not good.
So, I agree.
There will be a few more episodes - not in season 3, but in later seasons - that explore the Jem'Hadar and their individual personalities, and one episode early in season 4 in particular explores the issue of whether they have free will.
Hm, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Riker was as real as always, it's just that we learned that there was another Riker, too, who left in the next episode.
BTW, have you seen episode 9 already?
I'm past Past Tense actually. I'm doing my best now to update this thread to where I am actually at the moment.
Civil Defense
I don't remember much of this episode. It seems to be the kind that just blends into other episodes. You might remember that there's a funny scene with Garak in early season 3, but were exactly? Especially in marathon.
In fact, I'd say there was something season 1 about this episode.
I'd say it's very average. Though the scenes on the bridge with Garak and Dukat were just pure gold. I laughed.
I don't remember much of this episode. It seems to be the kind that just blends into other episodes. You might remember that there's a funny scene with Garak in early season 3, but were exactly? Especially in marathon.
In fact, I'd say there was something season 1 about this episode.
I'd say it's very average. Though the scenes on the bridge with Garak and Dukat were just pure gold. I laughed.
Meridian
Speaking of Admiral Shran. I guess what they say about reincarnation is true then. 300 years and a different species but still the same personality.
Personally I just love all these references to Enterprise. This blatant fanboyism certainly earns points for DS9 in my eyes.
And Jadzia. She seems to be different every season. I guess the theme for Jadzia this season is fragile. In season 2 it was promiscuous, and now it's "fragile", sad and broken.
And now I'm throwing out a piece of information about me that will make it easier for people to judge me. I like Jadzia the Fragile more than Jadzia the Promiscuous.
I'm now going to take a break in updating. I just saw a thread in Sci-Fi/Fantasy forum that blew my world, "Guillermo del Toro exits "The Hobbit" and I now have to read it. Every single post. Knee-jerk reaction? "This sucks!"
I didn't see what's so bad about this episode. It had Admiral Shran in it. Kira's body with Quark's head. The love story I didn't mind. The planet thing was interesting (the shifts). And the ending pleasingly sad.
Speaking of Admiral Shran. I guess what they say about reincarnation is true then. 300 years and a different species but still the same personality.
Personally I just love all these references to Enterprise. This blatant fanboyism certainly earns points for DS9 in my eyes.
And Jadzia. She seems to be different every season. I guess the theme for Jadzia this season is fragile. In season 2 it was promiscuous, and now it's "fragile", sad and broken.
And now I'm throwing out a piece of information about me that will make it easier for people to judge me. I like Jadzia the Fragile more than Jadzia the Promiscuous.
I'm now going to take a break in updating. I just saw a thread in Sci-Fi/Fantasy forum that blew my world, "Guillermo del Toro exits "The Hobbit" and I now have to read it. Every single post. Knee-jerk reaction? "This sucks!"
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Well, I believe you may be the only person on the planet who actually likes Meridian's A-plot. IMO the guy's acting was horrible, the dialogue very annoying, and their romance was incredibly clichéd and hasty. Also, I saw the ending coming 10 minutes into the episode, and when it finally came, I was very glad it was over.
The B-plot is pretty funny, though. If you watch the episode skipping the A-plot entirely, it's actually a pretty good episode.
The B-plot is pretty funny, though. If you watch the episode skipping the A-plot entirely, it's actually a pretty good episode.
Civil Defense tends to get more accolades than I feel it really deserves. Not a bad episode, but I agree with your assessment, JimmyBob, that it is quite mediocre, aside from a few good scenes in ops.
It works in the scheme of things as a reminder that the crew is living and working on a station that remains alien to them, a bit of a throwback to season 1 episodes like Babel and The Forsaken.
Meridian's B-story almost saves it, along with Dax's farewell to Sisko, which the actors milk for all its worth even though we know Jadzia isn't going anywhere. The only way this ep could have really worked overall would have been for Farrell and the guest star to just have awesome chemistry to make you believe this relationship was worth the sacrifice, but that doesn't happen.
It works in the scheme of things as a reminder that the crew is living and working on a station that remains alien to them, a bit of a throwback to season 1 episodes like Babel and The Forsaken.
Meridian's B-story almost saves it, along with Dax's farewell to Sisko, which the actors milk for all its worth even though we know Jadzia isn't going anywhere. The only way this ep could have really worked overall would have been for Farrell and the guest star to just have awesome chemistry to make you believe this relationship was worth the sacrifice, but that doesn't happen.
I loved Civil Defense. It has some brilliant Dukat/Garak scenes, and works at a lovely pace to create a tense plot, but I guess it isn't the most memorable plot.
Your review of Meridian:
. Ok, the B-story isn't too bad, but the A-Story is positively sickening. The people of Meridian are all the worst parts of The Storyteller and Paradise rolled together, and Jadzia's story was so ridiculous, especially with the bad acting from her opposite, and a predictable ending that is about as close to character assassination as DS9 gets. Oh, and also, IT'S BORING AS HELL 
!
Your opinion of Jadzia's two moods does mirror mine, however, but this episode was not the best one for revealing anything about her character.
Your review of Meridian:
. Ok, the B-story isn't too bad, but the A-Story is positively sickening. The people of Meridian are all the worst parts of The Storyteller and Paradise rolled together, and Jadzia's story was so ridiculous, especially with the bad acting from her opposite, and a predictable ending that is about as close to character assassination as DS9 gets. Oh, and also, IT'S BORING AS HELL !Your opinion of Jadzia's two moods does mirror mine, however, but this episode was not the best one for revealing anything about her character.
Civil Defense is really good, I think.
Meridian is pretty bad, but I don't think it even approaches the level of awfulness reached by DS9's worst episodes.
Meridian is pretty bad, but I don't think it even approaches the level of awfulness reached by DS9's worst episodes.
Your review of Meridian:
I guess this pretty much explains it all.
The Storyteller
I loved it.
This episode was great fun. But when I circle around too much, my head gets dizzy.
Paradise
I liked this episode.
It made me think about important issues. Weehhee! I'm Jimmy Bob, I review. It's so exciting.
Normally I would leave it for TheGodBen to show my utmost lack of qualifications in making valid opinions, but he is nowhere to be found. I hope he didn't die or something. It would be a pity, he had such a nice goatee.
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