First-Timer's Impressions of Deep Space Nine

[Jimmy Bob]

Hello. My name is Jimmy Bob and I'm going to watch DS9 for the first time in my life!

Bob the Resident Member: "Good for you. "

*taken back by the rampant hostility*

Umm... so I was thinking that while I'm watching the show I'd post my impressions and thoughts, to share my experience and perhaps...

Bob: "Go away please."

Why do you have to be so mean? I just thought it would be nice if old-timer's could get a taste of what it is like being the first-timer again and...

Bob: "We already have a thread. Clearly intellectually, emotionally, scientifically and factually more superior to yours. Besides, we don't need no random lurkers telling us their "opinions" about our show."

But I thought that was what these forums were all about. I mean, I can just watch the show alone and keep my experience to myself, but I'd much rather do an episode by episode online diary about my experience... that is, if allowed.

*echo*
Hello?
*echo*
Bob?
*echo*

I guess that's a yes then? So...

The Emissary

I was a bit taken back how TNG in-universe the beginning was. I had a slightly different mental image of the show. I didn't know that it started so early in the timeline. And I noticed that Brooks wore that TNG uniform much better than anyone on TNG.

And then the Sisko&Son scenes made me think of Seaquest DSV for some reason. I guess it's the similar 90's vibe. So I started to do a mental recap of DSV and other 90's shows, because for me 90's is a very warm and safe place because I was a kid then. I was only casually observing what went on.

But then Kira came on screen. And when they spoke, my nostalgic mental journey through the 90's was disrupted, and I was suddenly very keenly eating up every single word, and when Gal Dukat said that Sisko's office had been his just two weeks ago... I wasn't actually thinking anymore, I was just very, very immersed and fascinated by this political situation.

Is it that interesting of a pilot? Not really. Voyager and Enterprise pilots are much more satisfying as stand-alone tv experiences. I'm thinking that if one hasn't prepared himself mentally for experiencing 7 seasons, and one just casually glanced through pilots to see what to watch next, then Emissary isn't really that kind of "instant sell" pilot.

The first half was much more interesting than the second half with too many "what is this?" in it. For a moment, the second half even managed to kill the fascination I had just developed.

I actually like it when Trek gets trippy like this. One of my most favorite Trek episodes ever - The Fight - was just amazing on drugs. So I was hoping for the best.

But after the umpteenth "what is this?", I kept thinking that this is so typical; human captain teaches alien lifeforms some "valuable lesson" about corporeal beings, who of course are only "humans" in his speech, and then everyone is happy.

Only... it wasn't linear.

I gotta say, there is something different about this show. Something very intriguing and I want to find out what it is. I got my first "not in Kansas" vibe when that religious old guy appeared for the first time and made everyone go slightly "huh?"

About the Characters...

I had an instant love-fest with Kira. Odo made me shrug. Was surprised by Quark, in that he didn't act like a stereotypical ferengi, but like an actual individual. I like Sisko. Also Avery Brooks reminds me of Wayne Brady for some reason . So that probably added to my positive disposition.

I loved how Picard transported O'Brien away. It made me salute for some reason, while a "single manly tear rolled down my cheek". But O'Brien didn't impress me in TNG, so currently he's the "makes me shrug" character.

Bashir somehow managed to make me dislike him.

And Dax. Perhaps it's because I just recently watched Dollhouse, in where rich people live forever by robbing us poor folk of our identities and plant their own inside us, but I kept having a knee-jerk negative feelings about the whole worm moving from body-to-body. I'm hoping to find more about the host. I even interpreted the Orb-Dax flashback in a negative light... as in "the host being the prisoner of the worm".

Anyway. So, when Sisko and Dax were inside the wormhole, were their surroundings a mirror of their inner selves, or was Dax just experiencing an illusion and Sisko, due to having the magic powers of being a lead characters, just saw the real thing automatically?

No spoilers, please.

So... aye thread or nay thread?

 

[syc]

Congrats on discovering DS9,

My first experience with DS9 was back when it first showed up on Spike... more than a half decade ago. I started from the beginning onward and I do agree with your points concerning the pilot. If you, like you said, watched each series pilot one after another Voyager or Enterprise have more of a hook for the audience.

Keep going with DS9, I was skeptical at first as well. By season two, especially near the end of the season, I was completely taken. It only gets better. The first few are a bit bumpy, but by season three and four you are just overwhelmed by the continuing story and characters that its almost impossible to turn it off.

As for the wormhole illusion its been a long while since ive seen it so its hard for me to remember, sorry lol

 

[Withers]

I couldn't have been more than 8 or 9 years old when DS9 came out on television but I remember my initial reactions to it being something like yours- I was madly in love with Kira from the moment I saw her. I have a "thing" for powerful women. It is something I've had my whole life through. If you give Dax a chance I think she'll grow on you (as opposed to in you )

I agree with Syc that the first few seasons are a bit rough. It's the curse of every Star Trek franchise- for some reason the first few seasons are just full of "you almost had me" episodes. But DS9 especially takes off after season three and by the time you've made it that far you just have to know how it all ends.

If you fall in love with it, like I did, they'll call you a "Niner" (especially if you don't like Voyager.)


-Withers-​

 

[Navaros]

Welcome, Jimmy Bob!

You have a very unique perspective, so it's an aye thread.

Besides, DS9 has been a dead show for 10+ years, so it's not like there is anything else to do on a DS9 forum other than endlessly rehash discussions of old episodes. In other words, ain't nothing wrong with that, so don't worry about it. Plus, it's always nice to see a new perspective on the show.

Your comments about Quark are interesting. The Quark actor, Armin Shimerman, has said in interviews that he regrets how he unwittingly helped the Ferengi become one-dimensional silly cartoon baddies in TNG (he played one of the first if not the first Ferengi, IIRC), and therefore he worked very hard on DS9 to undo that damage. Although, he admits that Quark and the Ferengi are still largely comic roles. I believe he did achieve what he set out to do, though, by making Quark a very complex and intriguing character who is much more than just a cartoon, unlike any of the TNG Ferengi.

Odo is likewise an amazing character, but that shines through more in the later seasons. That is the case for most of the characters. They were kind of flopping around in Season 1, but they get much, much better as the series goes on.

Bashir's character in particular is one that gets much better, as does his acting (IMO he can't act in Season 1, but somehow learns how to act well in the later seasons, ditto for Jake Sisko).

I don't like Emissary enough to have paid enough attention to it in order to know the answer to your question, I'm sure someone else will be able to answer it for you though.

 

[Bones2]

Hey Jimmy Bob. I'll be reading.

And is The Fight really one of your favourite episodes? That's great. I always felt guilty for liking it, considering most people seem to consider it only one gobbed-up tongue away from being Threshold.

 

[TheGodBen]

I knew we should never have elected Bob as the president of the forum, he's objectionable and doesn't have a sense of humour.

Hello. My name is Jimmy Bob and I'm going to watch DS9 for the first time in my life!

I shall enjoy this. The first time that you criticise a clearly brilliant episode of this clearly brilliant show I shall object and attempt to make you feel like a fool, and when you reply to me you had damn well better be drunk!

Speaking of which...

The Emissary

You did not give it a rating! I am now confused as to how you feel about the episode. Do you actually expect me to read your review? Do you have no consideration for how busy my life is?

Gal Dukat

It's spelled Gul. Bob was right, you're clearly not good enough to have a review thread.

Is it that interesting of a pilot? Not really.

Burn the heretic!

Voyager and Enterprise pilots are much more satisfying as stand-alone tv experiences.

Burn him with super-charged plasma!

I'm thinking that if one hasn't prepared himself mentally for experiencing 7 seasons, and one just casually glanced through pilots to see what to watch next, then Emissary isn't really that kind of "instant sell" pilot.

I'll admit that when I first saw Emissary I didn't think much of it, but that's partly due to being 7 at the time and being confused about where Riker and Data were. So maybe it is because I grew to love these characters later that I look back at Emissary now and consider it my favourite Trek pilot.

But since I'm being as objectionable as possible I'm just going to claim that you're not smart enough to understand it.

One of my most favorite Trek episodes ever - The Fight -

Even liking that episode should be considered a crime against humanity.

But after the umpteenth "what is this?", I kept thinking that this is so typical; human captain teaches alien lifeforms some "valuable lesson" about corporeal beings, who of course are only "humans" in his speech, and then everyone is happy.

Only... it wasn't linear.

While I would agree with you that a human teaching aliens stuff has been done to death in Star Trek, Emissary has a very powerful twist in that the Prophets force Sisko to realise that he has been living in the past for two years, he was emotionally incapable of getting over his wife's death. That, to me, is not only a great character moment for Sisko (and it is the only one you're going to get for a few seasons) but it is also one of the best uses of science fiction in the whole franchise.

But I'm incredibly biased.

I loved how Picard transported O'Brien away. It made me salute for some reason, while a "single manly tear rolled down my cheek". But O'Brien didn't impress me in TNG, so currently he's the "makes me shrug" character.

Boring story: They cut that scene out on the 2-part TV version to make room for the second credits, so the first time I remember seeing that scene was when I saw it on the DVDs. It's was great, it was like watching all new material from my favourite show... and a minute later it was gone.

Bashir somehow managed to make me dislike him.

Yeah, he'll do that for a while, just wait until you get to The Passenger. Luckily the writers were aware of how annoying the character was and they included it in the show, there's a scene coming up in The Storyteller where O'Brien objects to being sent on an away mission with Bashir, which is hilarious when you look back on the show having seen it all.

And Dax. Perhaps it's because I just recently watched Dollhouse, in where rich people live forever by robbing us poor folk of our identities and plant their own inside us, but I kept having a knee-jerk negative feelings about the whole worm moving from body-to-body. I'm hoping to find more about the host. I even interpreted the Orb-Dax flashback in a negative light... as in "the host being the prisoner of the worm".

That's not the way it is intended, but you'll get to understand the host/symbiont issue eventually. There'll even be some lesbianism thrown in.

Anyway. So, when Sisko and Dax were inside the wormhole, were their surroundings a mirror of their inner selves, or was Dax just experiencing an illusion and Sisko, due to having the magic powers of being a lead characters, just saw the real thing automatically?

Both were an illusion, the "real" Celestial Temple is beyond our comprehension. Presumably Jadzia saw a beautiful garden because she's a happy, upbeat person while Sisko saw a bleak landscape because he was still stuck in a dark place in his life. That's how I interpret it, at least.

No spoilers, please.

But what about...

Spoiler: awesome spoiler

I'm just posting this spoiler to mess with Jimmy Bob and make him think that he's missing out on something amazing. If you want to help then reply to this spoiler with another spoiler and then I'll reply to that with another spoiler.

Trust me, he'll enjoy it, people who post first-timer threads without wanting to be spoiled love it when people start having conversations behind spoiler tags.

 

[Eyes]

Hi, Jimmy Bob

Good to see you're watching DS9, you'll enjoy it.

Emissary does get a bit repetitive later ('Being nice to your viewers: What is this?'), but to say its worse than Broken Bow or Caretaker is really, er, well... Every Star Trek show got better later on, but DS9 has the best pilot because it really delves into the universe set up for it. All the elements, the wormhole aliens, the Bajorans, the Cardassians are there from the start, and explored as decently as a 2-parter trying to explore all of them can.

As for the characters, yes, Bashir is annoying earlier on. You might like him later, I'm not sure yet, because the majority of watchers tend to have that attitude in Season 1.

For Kira and Dax, I instantly had the opposite reaction to what you had. I didn't know what to make of Kira, but Dax really intrigued me. I did grow to like Kira more over the coming seasons though.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

Funny thing is, though I recall enjoying Emissary, I can't really give it an unambiguous thumbs-up. The reason? Although I've seen it at least twice and the last time was under a year ago, I have the hardest time remembering what actually happens. I know they find the wormhole and Sisko gets told he's the Emissary, but I presume there must be more than that. Oh well!

 

[Jimmy Bob]

I knew we should never have elected Bob as the president of the forum, he's objectionable and doesn't have a sense of humour.

I shall enjoy this. The first time that you criticise a clearly brilliant episode of this clearly brilliant show I shall object and attempt to make you feel like a fool, and when you reply to me you had damn well better be drunk!

Ah, great times. That was the episode where Chakotay was one with the ship, wasn't it? Remember something...

Speaking of which...

The Emissary

You did not give it a rating! I am now confused as to how you feel about the episode. Do you actually expect me to read your review? Do you have no consideration for how busy my life is?

Yes. Yes I expect you to read my reviews. Yes I have no consideration for how busy your life is.

I don't actually do stars well. For example, I would have given every episode in VOY season 4 four or five stars, just because I was very excited by that season. But I would have given VOY season 6 only one stars for every episode, because I was just very bored by the season.

I'm very influenced by what comes before. And then everyone would just look at the stars only and yell at me, because I obviously can't understand that this deserves two more stars, because the true genius will only come to play in some later episode, and I am not a human being if I don't crawl back then and ask for forgiveness for my ignorance. Because stars tell everything.

While I would agree with you that a human teaching aliens stuff has been done to death in Star Trek, Emissary has a very powerful twist in that the Prophets force Sisko to realise that he has been living in the past for two years, he was emotionally incapable of getting over his wife's death. That, to me, is not only a great character moment for Sisko (and it is the only one you're going to get for a few seasons) but it is also one of the best uses of science fiction in the whole franchise.

Only... it wasn't linear.

I even paraphrased an actual quote. And you call yourself a fan. What's a few Gal's compared to this?

Note to self: Too subtle. Should have thrown "amazing twist" there somewhere. My bad.

Both were an illusion, the "real" Celestial Temple is beyond our comprehension. Presumably Jadzia saw a beautiful garden because she's a happy, upbeat person while Sisko saw a bleak landscape because he was still stuck in a dark place in his life. That's how I interpret it, at least.

I pretty much thought it too. It's only because Dax seemed later to fall into Sisko's reality that made me question it.

 

[TheGodBen]

I demanded that you be drunk, not high! Go sober up, then drink a bottle of vodka before posting again!

Ah, great times. That was the episode where Chakotay was one with the ship, wasn't it? Remember something...

No, it was the other Voyager episode with an ironic title, the one where B'Elanna saw visions of people being killed. It doesn't matter anyway, I already won that argument.

I'm very influenced by what comes before. And then everyone would just look at the stars only and yell at me, because I obviously can't understand that this deserves two more stars, because the true genius will only come to play in some later episode, and I am not a human being if I don't crawl back then and ask for forgiveness for my ignorance. Because stars tell everything.

I fail to understand what I will do in this thread if you don't have star ratings.

 

[Michael]

No spoilers, please.

But what about...

Spoiler: awesome spoiler

I'm just posting this spoiler to mess with Jimmy Bob and make him think that he's missing out on something amazing. If you want to help then reply to this spoiler with another spoiler and then I'll reply to that with another spoiler.

Trust me, he'll enjoy it, people who post first-timer threads without wanting to be spoiled love it when people start having conversations behind spoiler tags.

Oh boy, Ben, you are so wrong about this, because ...

Spoiler: ZOMG!!1!! SPOILERZ!!1!!

I'm game ...

 

[Danny99]

I like Sisko. Also Avery Brooks reminds me of Wayne Brady for some reason . So that probably added to my positive disposition.

"Does Ben Sisko have to choke a bitch?"

 

[TheGodBen]

Oh boy, Ben, you are so wrong about this, because ...

Spoiler: ZOMG!!1!! SPOILERZ!!1!!

I'm game ...

You could not possibly be more wrong if you tried.

Spoiler: character death

Excellent!

Soooooooo... have you seen Avatar?

 

[Diddle]

Hey there, Bob. I'd be honest with you, I don't dare watching series from the Pilot anymore, I usually left it to watch way later when I already like the series, not when there's still time for hatred towards everyone.

I'm glad you're beginning to enjoy the show, the first time I watched it, I guess I chose a pretty bad episode to start and automatically started to disliking the series, after a while I decided to give it another try and, you know, got a good episode, started enjoying it and now DS9 is one of my favorite series, I hope it turns out to be just as good for you too.

Spoiler: awesome spoiler

I'm just posting this spoiler to mess with Jimmy Bob and make him think that he's missing out on something amazing. If you want to help then reply to this spoiler with another spoiler and then I'll reply to that with another spoiler.

Trust me, he'll enjoy it, people who post first-timer threads without wanting to be spoiled love it when people start having conversations behind spoiler tags.

Spoiler: Have you heard

Hahah, this is great.

 

[AJBryant]

I'm in my first watch-through of the series, as well. Somehow, I managed to miss most of it during its first run (seminary and grad school will do that to you). I'm loving the show, but generally rolling my eyes at the Ferengi-centric episodes, and absolutely *hated* the episode "Valiant." Not too fond of the sudden apparent ease of crossing back and forth between the Alternate Universe, either, to be honest. This is DS9's Achilles heel, much as "time travel" has become Trek-in-general's overused plotline.

 

[Bones2]

^
What's wrong with Valiant?

Spoiler: Far Beyond the Stars

Rather than a joke spoiler, IT'S REEEEAL!! Ahahahaha.

 

[TheGodBen]

Spoiler: Have you heard

Hahah, this is great.

Spoiler: Season 4's big mindfuck

Excellent! Just a few more people and Jimmy Bob will go mental... with love, because everyone loves it when people have a conversation behind their backs.

^
What's wrong with Valiant?

Spoiler: Far Beyond the Stars

Rather than a joke spoiler, IT'S REEEEAL!! Ahahahaha.

Spoiler: In the Pale Moonlight

Not it's not, it's a FAAAAAAAAKE!

 

[AJBryant]

^
What's wrong with Valiant?

Spoiler: Well, I'll tell you...

I'm blown away -- and somewhat appalled -- that cadets who were supposedly the Academy's BEST would have turned privateer like that, instead of immediately reporting back to the fleet for orders. The whole idea that a ship's captain even has the authority to make field promotions like that -- let alone a cadet *acting* as captain thinking he could be right in doing so -- is ludicrous. And that the whole crew followed along? They were the elite, not the deluded wannabe. And it further blew me away at the ease with which Nog bought into it. Frankly, I'm also shocked that Moore wrote this episode, but seeing some of the things he did in BSG, I probably shouldn't be surprised. It's one of my least favorite episodes of the whole series.

 

[Jimmy Bob]

Past Prologue (0)

Dreadful, just dreadful. You know, I just figured out what is wrong with this show. No Neelix! That's right, there's a serious lack of Neelix.

I'm a very well-known and respected Neelix slash-fic writer, so I know what I'm talking about. In fact, in iloveneelixbbs.com forums I'm somewhat of a king. I own, completely. But I don't want to talk about myself, just if you ever drop by, just mention my name to get yourself leaded to some fine "You like some Kes, huh?" material. Work of art.

I also love this cheesy 70's synth tune that is playing in my head. Now it turned into a Barry White song.

Now, lack of Neelix is a serious prblem with other Trek shows too, so don't feel too bad about it. In fact, I actually have a humanitarian aid project called Saved by Neelix, in where I take classic Trek episodes and edit Neelix into them. My The City On The Edge Of Forever Neelix Edition was just mind-blowing success. True work of art. I'm an artist.

So with a trained eye like I have, I'm sorry to say that there is no Neelix in this episode. Sorry DS9 fans, but facts are facts. No Neelix=no stars.




















Past Prologue

I really hope that you people scroll down. Otherwise I just headed us into a serious case of misunderstanding each other in a very awkward way. Anyway.

Kira changed her hair. I liked her Emissary hair.

I was a bit dissapointed by this episode. What fascinated me the most about Emissary, was that it had a certain mystical... or mythological undertones... yeah, I'm just throwing words around with no idea what they mean.

But there was a certain mythical dimension to Emissary. And I was hoping to get more of that vibe, but instead I got some tv IRA fable, that was just so popular in the 90's. So that brought no excitement - of course the cast member will come to see her former comrade's ways in a bad light.

I appreciate that this series has taken a more honest approach towards Federation... portraying it as just one of many galaxy's expansionist powers. I can understand the bajoran concerns. Because Federation is ridiculously human-centric, with it's leaders constantly portraying corporeal traits as human alone to some non-corporeal beings. And it's basically assimiliating the weaker alien cultures.

So I'm digging this political situation very much... with it's unstable governments, ethnic tension and geopolitical stand-off between two expansionist powers. But this sort of tired story doesn't really inspire the mind. Then again, perhaps this wasn't that tired in 1993.

What I liked? I liked the glimpses into the everyday life of the station. Garak. And Bashir. Perhaps my dislike at first sight with Bashir happened because I was involved in a very heavy love-fest with Kira, and since he managed to piss her off with his "frontier" comment, he also pissed me off. Garak is also amazingly individual being. Worthy of mention, because aliens tend to be portrayed in a too collectivical manner.

I'm not sure that's even a word. Hey, and Admiral Forrest had a cameo.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

Personally I think Valiant is one of the best episodes of Season 6. People have the capacity to do all manner of stupid things in the right circumstances and Nog's behaviour never struck me as out of character.