First photo of phaser prop...for real this time.

[Irishman]

Re: Fisrt photo of phaser prop...for real this time.

But unless there's a very good reason given by the end of the series for contemporary props and costumes to be used...

The producers have already given their reasons, many times. Simply because they're not what you consider "very good" doesn't support the conclusion that it's not being done for the reasons they say.

It would be pretty damned difficult for most people to take the drama very seriously with the characters all glammed up in velour and ultrasuede and sparkly braid like oldBSG.

Good heavens, you're jumping to conclusions. I'll take it on your word that they've stated their reasons, Mr. Bailey, but I don't follow the production closely enough to hang on their every word. What is the stated reason for the Hummer with BC plates?

And I'm not sure one can reasonably argue that just because I object to clothing from Mens Wearhouse in a space opera, I'm looking to glam the actors "up in velour and ultrasuede." C'mon, meet me halfway, I won't bite.

Seriously, it does seem a little strange that a civilization spread across twelve planets and capable of faster-than-light travel so often borrows its look from contemporary North America. That strikes me as so unlikely, that it really does make it hard for me to take the drama very seriously.

Then I can only conclude that you approach it looking to pick apart, not to enjoy.

Those are your preconceptions. Period.

 

[Irishman]

Re: Fisrt photo of phaser prop...for real this time.

Curiously, nobody brought up either of those two issues in this thread but you.

Nice attempt to totally restate one position as meaning something utterly unrelated, though.

I'm entitled to bring up any topic I want, as long as the mods see fit to allow it.

But you are not entitled to pretend that someone else said something totally and completely unrelated to what they had actually said. That's not "you stating your opinion." That's either (1) you failing, utterly, to understand what is being said, or (2) you lying to attempt to discredit someone else's perspective by willfully mischaracterizing it.

You said "Soooo, to sum up. NuBSG is bad because they didn't design everything from the ground up?"

Which is in NO POSSIBLE FASHION WHATSOEVER related to what you're pretending to be "summing up."

And thus, why I'm calling "bullshit" on your comment.

Are you so attacked that you expect it from every quarter?

I must admit that my post could be viewed as a bit abrasive. However, what I was attempting to do was honest in its intent, and possessed of no malice or desire to misrepresent you or anyone else.

But, I'm letting you know how your posts could come across sounding like the direction NuBSG took in costume and prop direction (which in your view looks too 20th century Earth) nullifies all of the other unarguably fantastic elements the series has going for it.

In other words, to me, it sounded as though you were saying "the presence of props I don't like trump script and character development".

I'm very open to any clarification you can provide.

 

[Dusty Ayres]

Re: Fisrt photo of phaser prop...for real this time.

I'm very open to any clarification you can provide.

How's this: the clothing doesn't work because it takes us, the viewers away from the idea that these people are from another part of the galaxy, and that they are 'brothers of Man, out from beyond the heavens.' Even if the Colonies/Kobol were originally colonies of Earth, they would have developed their own style of dressing, speech, language, societal customs, etc. after centuries of being on their own. Most science fiction novels/movies/TV series have that as a logical basis, something Moore & Eick seem to have forgotten in their remaking of the original series. The mundanes seem to forget that too, mostly because they don't read any sci-fi, and mostly because society doesn't teach any sci-fi as literature in school, college, or university, so the mundanes begin to believe that a future society would wear the same clothes, eat the same food, and drive the same vehicles(!) as we here on 21st century Earth do. Sorry, but that does not compute, as the robot on Lost In Space and the gynoid (female android) on My Living Doll once used to say. That takes us-fellow sci-fi fans-out of it, and that is what makes it fake and false for us.

And that's why the look of Star Trek works a lot more, and is actually timeless, than that of the current Battlestar Galactica, as good as it was.

 

[Psion]

Re: Fisrt photo of phaser prop...for real this time.

The producers have already given their reasons, many times. Simply because they're not what you consider "very good" doesn't support the conclusion that it's not being done for the reasons they say.

It would be pretty damned difficult for most people to take the drama very seriously with the characters all glammed up in velour and ultrasuede and sparkly braid like oldBSG.

Good heavens, you're jumping to conclusions. I'll take it on your word that they've stated their reasons, Mr. Bailey, but I don't follow the production closely enough to hang on their every word. What is the stated reason for the Hummer with BC plates?

And I'm not sure one can reasonably argue that just because I object to clothing from Mens Wearhouse in a space opera, I'm looking to glam the actors "up in velour and ultrasuede." C'mon, meet me halfway, I won't bite.

Seriously, it does seem a little strange that a civilization spread across twelve planets and capable of faster-than-light travel so often borrows its look from contemporary North America. That strikes me as so unlikely, that it really does make it hard for me to take the drama very seriously.

Then I can only conclude that you approach it looking to pick apart, not to enjoy.

Those are your preconceptions. Period.

Check your premises, because your conclusion is wrong. Period.

 

[Psion]

I've mentioned several times that a Hummer with Vancouver or BC license plates was visible in one episode, however in my efforts to find a still of the offending anachronistic and mundanely terrestrial artifact, all I turn up are license plates with Caprica or Delphi markings. So I need to drop that particular criticism ... the mundanely terrestrial Hummers sporting mundanely terrestrial license plates with terrestrial characters printed on them (as pardonable a sin as making all aliens speak English), actually sport prop plates with continuity-correct markings.

Polaris and Irishman are now welcomed to take advantage.

 

[ancient]

Just think of BSG like a trek episode with an Earth-themed planet. Which were totally done by design and not to save money, btw...

 

[Psion]

Just think of BSG like a trek episode with an Earth-themed planet. Which were totally done by design and not to save money, btw...

You mean ... Kobol's other name is Sigma Iotia?

This explains so much.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Just think of BSG like a trek episode with an Earth-themed planet. Which were totally done by design and not to save money, btw...

Yeah, we all get that too... and we all know the "law of parallel planetary development" was pretty laughable. Still, it was at least SOME form of explanation... and thus, sufficient to let us "play along."

I'd have, by far, preferred something like "Patterns of Force" to have been done with some not-entirely-human species, using symbols and technology which weren't EXACTLY the same as the stuff being borrowed from "Hogan's Heroes" across the street.

I can accept it because there was never any conceit by the producers that there was some "higher, intended" purpose behind it, which would somehow make perfect sense in-continuity. The "parallel development" thing was never anything but a hack, and everyone knew it.

In other words, there's a difference between "yeah, we're pinching pennies, and this lets us tell good stories" and "really, honestly, this is all PART OF A PLAN!"

And BSG has really taken things over-the-top in some areas. I mean, honestly... it wouldn't have cost THAT much to do some cover-up body panels to change the general shape and appearance of Kara's Hummer, would it? (No, that's not a dirty joke... sheesh!)

Would it have been THAT hard to retailor the suits a bit more to make them less "right here, right now?" Hell, get rid of the ties and give them Seinfeldian "Puffy shirts" or something! Give the freakin' doctor technology beyond what was available on "M.A.S.H." (Actually, I think Hawkeye and the gang may have been more advanced, in health-care terms, than BSG's doc seems to be!)

We don't have to have "glowing blue wands that magically cure all sicknesses" and we don't have to have velour shirts with velcro. As I've tried to say several times, there's a happy medium. We just need enough "difference from today" to let us pretend that it's not today. That's where the current BSG has failed.

And for the record... this conversation is, as far as I'm concerned, ENTIRELY about the set-dressing, not in any way about the writing, directing, or acting. I'm not saying I like that stuff, nor as I saying that I don't. I'm not even TALKING about that stuff. That's a different conversation entirely. Which is why I said, earlier in this thread, that I thought Dennis' statement about that was a phoney argument. If you could have filmed the current series using the TOS sets and costumes, and had it be "just as good"... or if you could film the TOS stories using the "new" sets, costumes, etc... and not "improved it" (I'm putting quotes there because I'm not saying that I, personally, think that either is necessary the case, I'm addressing arguments made by others)...

... then I think it's abundantly clear that the "set-dressing" and the "storytelling" aren't really the same thing.

MY point here has been that the "set dressing" in the new BSG has HARMED the storytelling in a number of cases, because it reminds the audience that "this is all bullshit." To draw us out of our ability to pretend, even for just an hour, that any of it is anything but a bunch of actors playing make-believe. The only way to do that worse would be for the actors to start mugging to the cameras... ya know?

 

[Brent]

Can't believe so much arguing about where the firing button is lol

 

[JRS]

I like the desing of the new phaser, its nicely retro and has nice nods of what came before. I also like the way the setting is changed from stun to kill, nice idea.
And im sure it looks even better on screen than in the photo...

 

[Lashmore]

I'm confused now...on two fronts...

First- can't we just enjoy a prop which does in many ways resemble old fashioned trek phasers (at least to me) without nitpicking every detail and ruining the 'fantasy'

Second- ...how did a phaser thread turn into a nit-pick galactica thread? personally to me, galactica is ten times more entertaining then trek, i see so much modern stuff in it, but hey, doesn't ruin the story. If its something you feel you must discuss...there is a BSG area on this forum.

 

[Irishman]

I've mentioned several times that a Hummer with Vancouver or BC license plates was visible in one episode, however in my efforts to find a still of the offending anachronistic and mundanely terrestrial artifact, all I turn up are license plates with Caprica or Delphi markings. So I need to drop that particular criticism ... the mundanely terrestrial Hummers sporting mundanely terrestrial license plates with terrestrial characters printed on them (as pardonable a sin as making all aliens speak English), actually sport prop plates with continuity-correct markings.

Polaris and Irishman are now welcomed to take advantage.

And Trek makes aliens speak english, and Humans without UT's speak English to aliens without UT's and they understand each other.

 

[RealTime]

MY point here has been that the "set dressing" in the new BSG has HARMED the storytelling in a number of cases, because it reminds the audience that "this is all bullshit." To draw us out of our ability to pretend, even for just an hour, that any of it is anything but a bunch of actors playing make-believe. The only way to do that worse would be for the actors to start mugging to the cameras... ya know?

Lucky that some people can look past the "set dressing" and enjoy the story for what it is, no harm incurred. It's only afterwards where it might seem strange to remember Hummers or odd-looking phasers.
RT.

 

[Psion]

I've mentioned several times that a Hummer with Vancouver or BC license plates was visible in one episode, however in my efforts to find a still of the offending anachronistic and mundanely terrestrial artifact, all I turn up are license plates with Caprica or Delphi markings. So I need to drop that particular criticism ... the mundanely terrestrial Hummers sporting mundanely terrestrial license plates with terrestrial characters printed on them (as pardonable a sin as making all aliens speak English), actually sport prop plates with continuity-correct markings.

Polaris and Irishman are now welcomed to take advantage.

And Trek makes aliens speak english, and Humans without UT's speak English to aliens without UT's and they understand each other.

Did you miss the part where I said, "... as pardonable a sin as making all aliens speak English ..."?

I'm sorry, I obviously didn't make myself clear, so I'll have another go. Since there are no aliens in Moore's Battlestar, I couldn't have been talking about that show. Instead, I was comparing the use of familiar letters and numbers to the tendency of having aliens in shows like Star Trek, Doctor Who, and Stargate speak English. This is a "pardonable sin" because it's understood that the entertainment value of SF breaks down when it repeatedly becomes an exercise in linguistics. All those franchises have token nods to the difficulties, and then move on with the main part of the story. For that reason, I pardon the sin of seeing everything written in English in BSG.

I do so reluctantly, however, since there's been no effort to explain why the characters speak and write in English. Less effort even than in Doctor Who. Curiously, a show like Futurama, scores above BSG in this regard since they invented new symbologies for written communication and use them pretty faithfully throughout the show, leaving interpretation entirely to the viewers. It's plain they did this because the staff realized that in 1000 years things would change ... even though the action still takes place predominantly on Earth ... and understood the audience would get distracted by too much similarity to the contemporary. (As an aside, Futurama frequently outsmarts television science fiction, demonstrating just how lazy the production staff of live-action SF programs can get.)

I give BSG a pass on the letters and numbers for two reasons: because I understand the producers don't want to bog the story down, and because I expect some sort of explanation (to all the parallels to our world) to be part of the wrap-up of the series.

 

[Irishman]

I've mentioned several times that a Hummer with Vancouver or BC license plates was visible in one episode, however in my efforts to find a still of the offending anachronistic and mundanely terrestrial artifact, all I turn up are license plates with Caprica or Delphi markings. So I need to drop that particular criticism ... the mundanely terrestrial Hummers sporting mundanely terrestrial license plates with terrestrial characters printed on them (as pardonable a sin as making all aliens speak English), actually sport prop plates with continuity-correct markings.

Polaris and Irishman are now welcomed to take advantage.

And Trek makes aliens speak english, and Humans without UT's speak English to aliens without UT's and they understand each other.

Did you miss the part where I said, "... as pardonable a sin as making all aliens speak English ..."?

I'm sorry, I obviously didn't make myself clear, so I'll have another go. Since there are no aliens in Moore's Battlestar, I couldn't have been talking about that show. Instead, I was comparing the use of familiar letters and numbers to the tendency of having aliens in shows like Star Trek, Doctor Who, and Stargate speak English. This is a "pardonable sin" because it's understood that the entertainment value of SF breaks down when it repeatedly becomes an exercise in linguistics. All those franchises have token nods to the difficulties, and then move on with the main part of the story. For that reason, I pardon the sin of seeing everything written in English in BSG.

I do so reluctantly, however, since there's been no effort to explain why the characters speak and write in English. Less effort even than in Doctor Who. Curiously, a show like Futurama, scores above BSG in this regard since they invented new symbologies for written communication and use them pretty faithfully throughout the show, leaving interpretation entirely to the viewers. It's plain they did this because the staff realized that in 1000 years things would change ... even though the action still takes place predominantly on Earth ... and understood the audience would get distracted by too much similarity to the contemporary. (As an aside, Futurama frequently outsmarts television science fiction, demonstrating just how lazy the production staff of live-action SF programs can get.)

I give BSG a pass on the letters and numbers for two reasons: because I understand the producers don't want to bog the story down, and because I expect some sort of explanation (to all the parallels to our world) to be part of the wrap-up of the series.

No, I didn't miss it. But it wasn't clear who exactly you suggested had committed that sin - BSG or Trek.

I was clarifying.

 

[Psion]

And Trek makes aliens speak english, and Humans without UT's speak English to aliens without UT's and they understand each other.

Did you miss the part where I said, "... as pardonable a sin as making all aliens speak English ..."?

I'm sorry, I obviously didn't make myself clear, so I'll have another go. Since there are no aliens in Moore's Battlestar, I couldn't have been talking about that show. Instead, I was comparing the use of familiar letters and numbers to the tendency of having aliens in shows like Star Trek, Doctor Who, and Stargate speak English. This is a "pardonable sin" because it's understood that the entertainment value of SF breaks down when it repeatedly becomes an exercise in linguistics. All those franchises have token nods to the difficulties, and then move on with the main part of the story. For that reason, I pardon the sin of seeing everything written in English in BSG.

I do so reluctantly, however, since there's been no effort to explain why the characters speak and write in English. Less effort even than in Doctor Who. Curiously, a show like Futurama, scores above BSG in this regard since they invented new symbologies for written communication and use them pretty faithfully throughout the show, leaving interpretation entirely to the viewers. It's plain they did this because the staff realized that in 1000 years things would change ... even though the action still takes place predominantly on Earth ... and understood the audience would get distracted by too much similarity to the contemporary. (As an aside, Futurama frequently outsmarts television science fiction, demonstrating just how lazy the production staff of live-action SF programs can get.)

I give BSG a pass on the letters and numbers for two reasons: because I understand the producers don't want to bog the story down, and because I expect some sort of explanation (to all the parallels to our world) to be part of the wrap-up of the series.

No, I didn't miss it. But it wasn't clear who exactly you suggested had committed that sin - BSG or Trek.

I was clarifying.

Welllll, technically, I was the one who clarified. You just pointed out where a point of confusion existed.

 

[Irishman]

Just think of BSG like a trek episode with an Earth-themed planet. Which were totally done by design and not to save money, btw...

Yeah, we all get that too... and we all know the "law of parallel planetary development" was pretty laughable. Still, it was at least SOME form of explanation... and thus, sufficient to let us "play along."

I'd have, by far, preferred something like "Patterns of Force" to have been done with some not-entirely-human species, using symbols and technology which weren't EXACTLY the same as the stuff being borrowed from "Hogan's Heroes" across the street.

I can accept it because there was never any conceit by the producers that there was some "higher, intended" purpose behind it, which would somehow make perfect sense in-continuity. The "parallel development" thing was never anything but a hack, and everyone knew it.

In other words, there's a difference between "yeah, we're pinching pennies, and this lets us tell good stories" and "really, honestly, this is all PART OF A PLAN!"

And BSG has really taken things over-the-top in some areas. I mean, honestly... it wouldn't have cost THAT much to do some cover-up body panels to change the general shape and appearance of Kara's Hummer, would it? (No, that's not a dirty joke... sheesh!)

Would it have been THAT hard to retailor the suits a bit more to make them less "right here, right now?" Hell, get rid of the ties and give them Seinfeldian "Puffy shirts" or something! Give the freakin' doctor technology beyond what was available on "M.A.S.H." (Actually, I think Hawkeye and the gang may have been more advanced, in health-care terms, than BSG's doc seems to be!)

We don't have to have "glowing blue wands that magically cure all sicknesses" and we don't have to have velour shirts with velcro. As I've tried to say several times, there's a happy medium. We just need enough "difference from today" to let us pretend that it's not today. That's where the current BSG has failed.

And for the record... this conversation is, as far as I'm concerned, ENTIRELY about the set-dressing, not in any way about the writing, directing, or acting. I'm not saying I like that stuff, nor as I saying that I don't. I'm not even TALKING about that stuff. That's a different conversation entirely. Which is why I said, earlier in this thread, that I thought Dennis' statement about that was a phoney argument. If you could have filmed the current series using the TOS sets and costumes, and had it be "just as good"... or if you could film the TOS stories using the "new" sets, costumes, etc... and not "improved it" (I'm putting quotes there because I'm not saying that I, personally, think that either is necessary the case, I'm addressing arguments made by others)...

... then I think it's abundantly clear that the "set-dressing" and the "storytelling" aren't really the same thing.

MY point here has been that the "set dressing" in the new BSG has HARMED the storytelling in a number of cases, because it reminds the audience that "this is all bullshit." To draw us out of our ability to pretend, even for just an hour, that any of it is anything but a bunch of actors playing make-believe. The only way to do that worse would be for the actors to start mugging to the cameras... ya know?

Clearly, you care.

I don't.