First photo of phaser prop...for real this time.

[Psion]

Re: Fisrt photo of phaser prop...for real this time.

OK.. ok.. I'll just shut-up from now on.... goodness knows one shouldn't try to defend those who don't desire it... especially since it appears...

"...We are All, One, Big, Happy Family..."


(and I guess I misread the quotes...should have typed Dusty Ayres, not Psion.)

Oh, don't be like that, I appreciate the effort! I just couldn't resist the urge to use your post to have some fun with Polaris. Like you, I really wish I was as happy with the stuff I watch.

 

[Dusty Ayres]

Re: Fisrt photo of phaser prop...for real this time.

There's a happy medium to be found here, and BOTH sides of this argument are guilty of exaggeration of their perspective.

The "nuBSG" approach was utterly unconvincing to me because it was just utterly obvious that they were cutting corners in terms of design time (prop, costume, and set) in order to be able to save a few bucks shopping at the local mall, WalMart, or surplus store. It wasn't JUST the phone handsets (which, for the record, have been used by almost EVERYONE with any military background, not just submarine guys) or the HMMWV ("Humvees" or "Hummers") or the contemporary firearms. It's sort of a COMPOSITE.

That's taking things TOO FAR in one direction.

...

The mistake that Moore's BSG has made is just as bad, though. It's just a DIFFERENT mistake.

Cameron's flick is an example of how to do it RIGHT.

Soooo, to sum up. NuBSG is bad because they didn't design everything from the ground up?

Phenomenal stories and kickass character development be damned, eh?

We aren't discussing stories, we're discussing art direction; set design, props, costuming. It just feels cheap or unimaginative when you have massive battlestars and awesome space fighters and people walk around in suits from Men's Wearhouse and drive hummers. That recognizable tie to conventional Earth technology may be deliberate and proven by the final episode, but I still find it jarring.

It's also being done just to get mundanes to watch, because apparently mundanes can't stand futuristic looking stuff. This despite that fact that most mundanes use futuristic technology that was inspired by science fiction in the first place, like Blackberries, cellphones, the Internet (possibly) and a lot of other things.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Fisrt photo of phaser prop...for real this time.

It's also being done just to get mundanes to watch, because apparently mundanes can't stand futuristic looking stuff.

"Mundanes" = most people who are more interested in life than in skiffy hobbies.

 

[ancient]

Re: Fisrt photo of phaser prop...for real this time.

The more you know. (TM)

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Fisrt photo of phaser prop...for real this time.

Well, for "mundanes can't stand futuristic looking stuff" substitute "some mundanes know how to dress."

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Re: Fisrt photo of phaser prop...for real this time.

Soooo, to sum up. NuBSG is bad because they didn't design everything from the ground up?

Phenomenal stories and kickass character development be damned, eh?

Curiously, nobody brought up either of those two issues in this thread but you.

Nice attempt to totally restate one position as meaning something utterly unrelated, though.

 

[DaveyNY]

Re: Fisrt photo of phaser prop...for real this time.

OK.. ok.. I'll just shut-up from now on.... goodness knows one shouldn't try to defend those who don't desire it... especially since it appears...

"...We are All, One, Big, Happy Family..."


(and I guess I misread the quotes...should have typed Dusty Ayres, not Psion.)

Oh, don't be like that, I appreciate the effort! I just couldn't resist the urge to use your post to have some fun with Polaris. Like you, I really wish I was as happy with the stuff I watch.

Well... I went off on a rant, I know better than that.
Was really tired when I posted it and have been kinda-sorta down in the dumps lately .

I'm sure I'm gonna like what We get on May 8th, but I'm also sure it's gonna make me feel somewhat forlorn for the Trek I grew up with.

Young Minds and all that though...

It's also being done just to get mundanes to watch, because apparently mundanes can't stand futuristic looking stuff.

"Mundanes" = most people who are more interested in life than in skiffy hobbies.

Thank Goodness I'm not a 'Mundane'... Because I'm Passionat about My Life AND Skiffy Hobbies!

 

[Irishman]

Re: Fisrt photo of phaser prop...for real this time.

Soooo, to sum up. NuBSG is bad because they didn't design everything from the ground up?

Phenomenal stories and kickass character development be damned, eh?

Curiously, nobody brought up either of those two issues in this thread but you.

Nice attempt to totally restate one position as meaning something utterly unrelated, though.

I'm entitled to bring up any topic I want, as long as the mods see fit to allow it.

 

[Psion]

Re: Fisrt photo of phaser prop...for real this time.

Well... I went off on a rant, I know better than that.
Was really tired when I posted it and have been kinda-sorta down in the dumps lately .

I'm sure I'm gonna like what We get on May 8th, but I'm also sure it's gonna make me feel somewhat forlorn for the Trek I grew up with.

Young Minds and all that though...

Screw young minds ... it's bad enough they get all the girls, I want Trek my way. With the original Enterprise and a scene with it being built in orbit just to drive Bailey crazy and make him pull his hair out for a change!

Soooo, to sum up. NuBSG is bad because they didn't design everything from the ground up?

Phenomenal stories and kickass character development be damned, eh?

Curiously, nobody brought up either of those two issues in this thread but you.

Nice attempt to totally restate one position as meaning something utterly unrelated, though.

I'm entitled to bring up any topic I want, as long as the mods see fit to allow it.

Absolutely! Just don't try to put those words into the mouths of folks who don't see eye-to-eye with you on related issues. That's called a straw-man argument and it's neither intellectually rigorous nor honest. Sometimes, I love the writing on the unrelentingly grim BSG. But unless there's a very good reason given by the end of the series for contemporary props and costumes to be used, then I'll just have to draw the conclusion that such choices are a sign that the show had an inadequate budget. It's hardly the first show to have its quality suffer in such a fashion. Maybe the remake will get better funding.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Fisrt photo of phaser prop...for real this time.

But unless there's a very good reason given by the end of the series for contemporary props and costumes to be used...

The producers have already given their reasons, many times. Simply because they're not what you consider "very good" doesn't support the conclusion that it's not being done for the reasons they say.

It would be pretty damned difficult for most people to take the drama very seriously with the characters all glammed up in velour and ultrasuede and sparkly braid like oldBSG.

 

[Psion]

Re: Fisrt photo of phaser prop...for real this time.

But unless there's a very good reason given by the end of the series for contemporary props and costumes to be used...

The producers have already given their reasons, many times. Simply because they're not what you consider "very good" doesn't support the conclusion that it's not being done for the reasons they say.

It would be pretty damned difficult for most people to take the drama very seriously with the characters all glammed up in velour and ultrasuede and sparkly braid like oldBSG.

Good heavens, you're jumping to conclusions. I'll take it on your word that they've stated their reasons, Mr. Bailey, but I don't follow the production closely enough to hang on their every word. What is the stated reason for the Hummer with BC plates?

And I'm not sure one can reasonably argue that just because I object to clothing from Mens Wearhouse in a space opera, I'm looking to glam the actors "up in velour and ultrasuede." C'mon, meet me halfway, I won't bite.

Seriously, it does seem a little strange that a civilization spread across twelve planets and capable of faster-than-light travel so often borrows its look from contemporary North America. That strikes me as so unlikely, that it really does make it hard for me to take the drama very seriously.

 

[Will]

Re: Fisrt photo of phaser prop...for real this time.

It would be pretty damned difficult for most people to take the drama very seriously with the characters all glammed up in velour and ultrasuede and sparkly braid like oldBSG.

Or like TOS?

I like the new phaser, except for the horizontal spinning barrel. I think a six-shooter effect would be have been a whole lot more practical.

And whoever said that matchlocks and flintlocks were accurate??? Umm...not so much. Sure, you'd get the shot in the general direction you were "aiming" but (a) no rifling effect in the barrel means the shot doesn't necessarily have to carry in a perfectly straight line for the 50 yard maximum range; (b) those weapons were creating little explosions right next to your face so you didn't actually *look* when you pulled the trigger--you turned your face away so as to not get burned, ergo there's no such thing as "aiming." You just pointed the gun in the general direction of the enemy, and hoped for the best (fortunately, they all lined up like idiots and waited to get shot...but so did you).

(sorry, history geek here. We've been talking about flintlocks in one of my history classes this week, so it's been on my mind)

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Re: Fisrt photo of phaser prop...for real this time.

Soooo, to sum up. NuBSG is bad because they didn't design everything from the ground up?

Phenomenal stories and kickass character development be damned, eh?

Curiously, nobody brought up either of those two issues in this thread but you.

Nice attempt to totally restate one position as meaning something utterly unrelated, though.

I'm entitled to bring up any topic I want, as long as the mods see fit to allow it.

But you are not entitled to pretend that someone else said something totally and completely unrelated to what they had actually said. That's not "you stating your opinion." That's either (1) you failing, utterly, to understand what is being said, or (2) you lying to attempt to discredit someone else's perspective by willfully mischaracterizing it.

You said "Soooo, to sum up. NuBSG is bad because they didn't design everything from the ground up?"

Which is in NO POSSIBLE FASHION WHATSOEVER related to what you're pretending to be "summing up."

And thus, why I'm calling "bullshit" on your comment.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Re: Fisrt photo of phaser prop...for real this time.

But unless there's a very good reason given by the end of the series for contemporary props and costumes to be used...

The producers have already given their reasons, many times. Simply because they're not what you consider "very good" doesn't support the conclusion that it's not being done for the reasons they say.

No, they haven't... not really. They've thrown out "hints" that there "may be a reason for it, in-story" but we haven't had that answered yet.

But, Dennis, since you may have information the rest of us don't in this case, care to share?

Give us a listing of the various "reasons" that they've given.

It would be pretty damned difficult for most people to take the drama very seriously with the characters all glammed up in velour and ultrasuede and sparkly braid like oldBSG.

So, do you feel the same way about the new "Trek" uniforms? I mean, aren't they "all glammed up" with fancy chevron-imprinted fabrics and silvery doodads?

Simply stating a description in derogatory terms doesn't mean anything except that you're being dishonest in your argument by attempting to imbue it with an emotionally-driven preconception.

FYI, velour and ultrasuede aren't necessarily BAD materials, and "sparkly braid" is pretty common in both civilian and military uniform, and has been throughout history, hasn't it been?

I'd argue, and one would think you'd be able to grasp this point, that good drama remains good drama regardless of the state of the costuming, and bad drama remains bad drama regardless, too.

Are you honestly saying that had they used something similar (even if not identical) to the original series costumes on the new show, it would have been ruined? Or if they'd done the original series using costumes like the new series has, you'd have suddenly thought it was a fantastic show?

I think you're reaching just a LITTLE BIT too far in order to pretend to be "smarter" and more "authoritative" than those whose position you've chosen to oppose.

 

[ST-One]

Re: Fisrt photo of phaser prop...for real this time.

Cameron's flick is an example of how to do it RIGHT.

Yeah, but you can't compare a feature film with a TV-show.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Re: Fisrt photo of phaser prop...for real this time.

Cameron's flick is an example of how to do it RIGHT.

Yeah, but you can't compare a feature film with a TV-show.

I agree. The film had less need to show things on an ongoing basis, and (per-scene) a more significant budget.

I doubt, very much, that people would be complaining about a lot of this stuff if the producers had simply admitted "we're trying to tell great stories but don't have an unlimited budget or unlimited time, so we're using existing materials to let us focus on what's important."

Unfortunately, they instead have played "justification games" by pretending that there are other, fully-intentional reasons behind their choices. That they have Tom Zarek wearing something off-the-rack from here, from today, because ... well, wait and see, and it'll all be explained....

This is not to say that it's not POSSIBLE that it could all, in fact, be explained. But I certainly haven't seen that explanation yet. Has anyone? (The only possible chance I can imagine would tie, somehow, into Earth having been nuked... and the whole "colonies" thing being, somehow, entirely artificial, sort of like "The Matrix.")

The most likely explanation is the simplest... they saved time and $$$ by buying off-the-rack and off-the-shelf.

This (despite the protestations from above) has NOTHING to do with the stories being told (which would be the same regardless of whether they used an off-the-showroom-floor Hummer or spent $500,000 to build a functional "colonial landram"). It only has relevance when it's so overt, so unmistakeable, that it pulls audience members (like me) out of our ability to pretend, even for the duration of the show, that what we're watching is "real."

 

[Psion]

^^

Very well said, Mr. Brown. And I agree ... if Moore et al had come out at the beginning and said, "we're cutting the budget here and deliberately using contemporary costuming and props to make it easier to tell the story we're telling", then I'd accept that. Or, if by the end of the show, an alternate explanation surfaces, I'll go along with that as well. But every time I see clothing I can run out and buy at a mall, I get pulled right out of my willing suspension of disbelief and wind up paying more attention to the tie than to the lines the actor wearing it is delivering. I really hope in a few weeks something will come up in the show that makes me look at a tie and go, "Wow ... that is really cool!"

I do give the cast and crew credit, though. After having stuck through the relentlessly grim developments of the last few years, the current string of episodes are absolutely rivetting and the hour of television I most look forward to each week. Tying that back to the upcoming Star Trek movie, if the phaser props and sets are the worst part of the movie, there's plenty of room for a good story and strong performances to make it a hit.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Fisrt photo of phaser prop...for real this time.

It would be pretty damned difficult for most people to take the drama very seriously with the characters all glammed up in velour and ultrasuede and sparkly braid like oldBSG.

Or like TOS?

The same. Star Trek uniforms would be nonsensical and distracting on BSG.

 

[trevanian]

Re: Fisrt photo of phaser prop...for real this time.

Soooo, to sum up. NuBSG is bad because they didn't design everything from the ground up?

Phenomenal stories and kickass character development be damned, eh?

Curiously, nobody brought up either of those two issues in this thread but you.

Nice attempt to totally restate one position as meaning something utterly unrelated, though.

I'm entitled to bring up any topic I want, as long as the mods see fit to allow it.

That's mighty specious of you.

 

[trevanian]

For me, nuBSG succeeds in spite of a lot of visual problems, and the clothing/sets seeming off the rack is the least of them. I think the baseship interiors look like 70s era 6million dollar man 'bigfoot' episodes, and that, coupled with the distracting rough visual treatment throughout, is going to date this series badly, IN SPITE of the good performances and great writing and some skillful direction, almost like B5's production values and vfx date it (though BSG far outstrips that show's success for me.)