The planet in New Eden (Terralysium) was 51k light years away, not 140k.
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First Impressions
- Thread starter Damian
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The planet in New Eden (Terralysium) was 51k light years away, not 140k.
Oh. Oops. I just watched it tonight so that shows you how good my memory is.
It still seems odd it would take them that long to get there with traditional warp considering we were told it would only take Voyager about 70-80 years to get home from 70,000 light years away at maximum warp.
I guess it depends on the maximum warp of the Discovery. Voyagers top speed was warp 9.8 (I think). I don't recall Discovery's top warp speed. I know the Enterprise top speed from the original series was warp 8. If Discovery was also warp 8 I'm not sure how much time that would add to the journey at their top warp speed so I guess it's possible.
Oh. Oops. I just watched it tonight so that shows you how good my memory is.
It still seems odd it would take them that long to get there with traditional warp considering we were told it would only take Voyager about 70-80 years to get home from 70,000 light years away at maximum warp.
I guess it depends on the maximum warp of the Discovery. Voyagers top speed was warp 9.8 (I think). I don't recall Discovery's top warp speed. I know the Enterprise top speed from the original series was warp 8. If Discovery was also warp 8 I'm not sure how much time that would add to the journey at their top warp speed so I guess it's possible.
The warp scale in the TOS era is also different from the TNG era.
There's also a line in Voyager that says ships from this era are half as fast.
I watched another episode last night, the first one of the 2nd season featuring Klingons. I was happy to see more of a variety in the Klingons, including some that look more familiar. Some were season 1 versions with hair, some still appeared as they did in season 1, and some looked more like their TSFS through Enterprise counterparts (not exactly but close enough that they were familiar). I'm ok with a variety--some new some old. The only thing that would be nice is if they threw in a human-style Klingon--just to link it to the original series/Enterprise. Even if there was one or two in a group of Klingons.
Phillipa was also back along with Section 31 and I noticed a passing mention of "Control". I have seen some passing mentions of Control in some comments and that it's not the same as the one in the novels, though I'll be curious to see if there is any passing similarities to the novels. Time will tell I guess.
And it's obvious they are building to something with the 'red angel', Spock, and Burnham, along with something going on with Tilley and her run in with the dark matter life form. So far the 2nd episode has been my favorite of the 3. Episode 3 was a bit more of a set-up story for later episodes it seems---necessary if you are having season long arcs, but those episodes aren't quite as enjoyable as later episodes usually.
Phillipa was also back along with Section 31 and I noticed a passing mention of "Control". I have seen some passing mentions of Control in some comments and that it's not the same as the one in the novels, though I'll be curious to see if there is any passing similarities to the novels. Time will tell I guess.
And it's obvious they are building to something with the 'red angel', Spock, and Burnham, along with something going on with Tilley and her run in with the dark matter life form. So far the 2nd episode has been my favorite of the 3. Episode 3 was a bit more of a set-up story for later episodes it seems---necessary if you are having season long arcs, but those episodes aren't quite as enjoyable as later episodes usually.
Only superficially.
Ok. Now I'm about 5 episodes in. I have to admit the scenes with Saru and Burnham were very poignant and well handled. I'm not sure if we're past the spoiler point so I won't post specifics (those that have seen it will know what I'm talking about--I'm too lazy right now to spoil tag it).
I must admit I'm a bit mystified with how out in the open Section 31 is. Everyone is aware of them it seems and the Admiral from season 1 (I forget her name offhand) is giving orders to the Section 31 officers as well as Pike. That seems very inconsistent with their previous portrayals in DS9, Enterprise and even STID. They were supposedly a secret cabal that no one was supposed to be aware of. After all, if you're a secret spy/enforcer ring that operates outside the law it kind of defeats the purpose if everyone knows about you. It flies in the face of Starfleet and Federation ideals. So I'm not sure what that's all about. I mean, in DS9 and Enterprise most of the Starfleet crew that finds out about them are horrified and mystified by their existence. Yet in Discovery they are out in the open. Something doesn't line up here.
But maybe that will be explained in later episodes. I just have to admit I was shocked that Section 31 made no attempts to hide themselves.
I must admit I'm a bit mystified with how out in the open Section 31 is. Everyone is aware of them it seems and the Admiral from season 1 (I forget her name offhand) is giving orders to the Section 31 officers as well as Pike. That seems very inconsistent with their previous portrayals in DS9, Enterprise and even STID. They were supposedly a secret cabal that no one was supposed to be aware of. After all, if you're a secret spy/enforcer ring that operates outside the law it kind of defeats the purpose if everyone knows about you. It flies in the face of Starfleet and Federation ideals. So I'm not sure what that's all about. I mean, in DS9 and Enterprise most of the Starfleet crew that finds out about them are horrified and mystified by their existence. Yet in Discovery they are out in the open. Something doesn't line up here.
But maybe that will be explained in later episodes. I just have to admit I was shocked that Section 31 made no attempts to hide themselves.
Things change in a couple of hundred years?
Things change in a couple of hundred years?
I get that there can be some changes over the course of time between Enterprise and DS9--but in the 22nd century and 24th century Section 31 is pretty well hidden. When they first appeared in DS9 in fact they were disguised as Starfleet Intelligence.
It just seems odd to me that no one on Discovery is surprised by the existence of Section 31 and they are treated basically as another sanctioned element of the Federation. That's pretty inconsistent with their presentation in the past (and future) as an extra-legal organization with no official standing in Starfleet or the Federation.
They were LL crew on a highly experimental ship - which had areas gaurded by personnel with Black Badges (which we find out are Section 31 operatives). <--- That was Season 1. So yeah, I wouldn't be surprised that some crew (and members of the Admiralty) who are dealiong with a ship/project commissioned by Section 31 -- know of Section 31.
The U.S.S. Discovery was NEVER just another 'standard ship of the line' in teh Federation fleet in ST: D Season 1 or Season 2.
Indeed. I can buy the idea that by the 24th Century humanity thinks Section 31 is gone, but they've really just gone underground. But someone like Bashir - who remember had a love for James Bond style spy stories - should be well read on the history of espionage in the Federation. Hell, there probably are 23rd century "spy holonovels" featuring them.
The only real solution that makes sense is Section 31 somehow totally suppressed all knowledge about itself within a century. Which implies the Federation has some totalitarian tendencies, because there are plenty of individuals (Vulcans, Klingons, etc) who survived from the Discovery era till DS9.
I don't think Section 31 went around doing any more supression than it already has over the centuries. The people on the U.S.S. Discovery know because the ship and the Spore Drive project were done under/controlled by Section 31 and its operatives. there's also the Admiral who was killed (although she seems to have been a member of Section 31); Sarek and Amanda know of Section 31 and Pike and many of his crew know of Section 31 - but they ALL see it as an arm of Starfleet Intelligence; and as such don't feel it's done enough to be fully outed or shut down.
Hell, even in DS9's time; NEITHER Sisko and Bashir go on any sort of real campaign to 'out' Section 31 to Starfleet or the 'public'.
Just because something comes up in a series that certain characters find out about, it doesn't automatically follow that everyone else must also have knowledge of it.
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Eh, I saw their treatment as being similar to ID and DS9. Ross didn't deny it, and was willing to work with S31 despite his personal misgivings. Starfleet would neither confirm nor deny their existence.
I treat it as Section 31 tried to be more overt, and then was sent scurrying back to the darkness.
Sorry no, not buying it. Micheal knew about Section 31 before anyone explained it to her. IIRC even Tilly did. It's very strongly implied that its existence is not - in any way - classified during this time period, even though its activities are. Also, the season ends with the promise (minor spoiler to OP) that Section 31 will be reformed to be more transparent.
Basically it's presented as a special branch of Starfleet Intelligence. Maybe everything it was "officially" involved with was so boring that it kind of ended up a footnote in history? You'd still think there would be the Starfleet version of Illuminati conspiracy theories going on though.
Not necessarily. To the average Starfleet Officer it probably means about as much as those Illuminati theories mean to most people you'll meet on the street.
I agree it was presented as a branch of Starfleet Intelligence, which suits S31's appearance just fine. Because then it becomes a part of the background noise until they become less noticeable, or less worth commenting on, hidden in plain sight.
Human beings are terrible at picking up on things hidden in plain sight.
I’m currently in the middle of my first rewatch and will say, I like first season more the second time, not less. Maybe cause I know the characters better.
Utopias in general aren't known for an insistence on easy access to information that counters the narrative of being perfect societies, now are they? And Star Trek in particular has invariably presented utopias as harboring some nasty secret or two in how they are constructed and maintained. So why should the Federation be the lone exception?
I'd say the show is mostly well acted, the casting folks definitely earned their collective paychecks there. The writing? It is just plain bad for the most part. Unimaginative with nostalgia as the primary driver. Hopefully the shift to the 32nd century, and a consistent show runner in Michelle Paradise, the show will find a sense of why it exists beyond nostalgia.
With a trailer that's showing us Andorians, Morn's race, Cardassians and Trills, complete with the caves where their unjoined slugs swim in pools, I'd say they're still milking nostalgia.
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I’ll hold out hope until the episodes start to air.
Nostalgia is safe.
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