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"First Flight" My thoughts

t_smitts

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
This was one of the better pre-season 4 episodes. I didn't realize until rewatching it the other day how much growth the younger Archer shows in this episode.

-Keith Carradine (one of the Carradine family of actors) does a great job as a foil for Scott Bakula. I'm almost curious to see what kind of captain he would've been.

For those who know the history of the Mercury program, Robinson and the younger Archer remind me of Alan Shepard and John Glenn, respectively. While both were accomplished test pilots (Glenn had set a trans-continental speed record before the first invitation to prospective astronauts went out) Glenn had a reputation as sort of a churchgoing "good boy". Alan Shepard had more of an edgier reputation. As a naval aviator, he'd had a history of doing things like "flat-hatting" (flying at extremely low altitudes), and somehow skating by with little or no consequences, and though he was married, he didn't always resist some of the women throwing themselves at him (though he was hardly the only astronaut to do so). Although Glenn had always been the best at the PR aspect of the job, it was Shepard who was ultimately chosen for the first manned Mercury flight, with Glenn as his back-up (much like Robinson and Archer's roles in this episode). Even though Shepard would later command a lunar mission on Apollo 14, Glenn would probably become the more celebrated of the two (again, like Archer and Robinson's roles here).

I remember, upon first watching this episode, not liking Robinson as much. I remember thinking if he'd just dropped out of warp when Archer and Forrest told him to, the ship might not have blown up, which gave the Vulcan leverage to pressure Starfleet into suspending the NX program. Now, I think he probably still should've aborted but understanding the test pilot mentality, and understanding the episode's message about taking risks, I'm a bit more understanding of his side of things. (Of course, in real life, an astronaut who ignores or challenges orders like that is probably guaranteeing he'll never fly again, as we saw with the Apollo 7 crew. And that was with a civilian agency, like NASA, as opposed to a more military protocol-based agency like Starfleet).

-Having Forrest be a commodore was a nice touch, bringing back a rank that was so prevalent in the original series, but for whatever reason, effectively dropped from the movies and subsequent series. (Of course, other than this episode, I don't think we saw it used on this series either).

-Memory Alpha says the earlier parts of this episode took place in 2143, but can't really catch any lines in the episode that places the year, other than it being about seven or eight years before they laid the keel for the NX-01 (and we don't know how long it took to build, especially given how long the NX-02 took)

-This is a bit of a downer, but think it bears mentioning, given Star Trek's progressive reputation, but, between this episode and "Broken Bow", the 22nd century Starfleet seems to be very male and very white (and that's coming from someone who happens to be white and male). Considering that this is supposed to be an international agency, it doesn't look very good that for the first two years of the show, the only minorities with speaking parts were the underused Travis and Hoshi, or that a 21st century Star Trek series is no more diverse (or maybe even less so) than one made in the 60's. Heck, TOS had an African American commodore in one episode and a Russian on the bridge, as opposed to the characters on this show, which, apart from Malcolm, seem overwhelmingly American (or at least North American).

-I found it a bit of a stretch that T'Pol knew nothing about Robinson's flight, to the point that I actually wonder if she wasn't feigning ignorance as pretense to get Archer to talk. I don't want to start another argument about Vulcans lying, though I've always been a bit more tolerant of exceptions to that supposed rule.

-Michael Canavan gives the show yet another snooty Vulcan who's dubious about humanity traveling to the stars. I'm not sure why they didn't just use Gary Graham as Soval in this role (which would have the advantage of illustrating the reason for our favorite bitter old Vulcan's disapproval of Archer that he spoke of in "Shadows of P'Jem") but to Canavan's credit, his unnamed Vulcan doesn't seem to look down on humans to the degree that Soval, Vanik, Sopek, and a lot of the other Vulcans on the show did (though, again, this concept didn't bother me as much as some people).

-All in all, the second season certainly wasn't Enterprise's best, but this was one of the best (actually, coming right after "Cogenitor" and "Regeneration", this was a nice trilogy of three well-done, yet distinctly different episodes).
 
Thanks for your thoughts. I think First Flight is a strong episode with an interesting angle, that tends to get overlooked. A "quiet achiever".

Interesting that the episode parallels with real life astronauts. I don't know much about NASA history so will have to take your word!

I hadn't thought about it, but I guess it is quite a white, male scenario. Not that there are many people in the episode anyway. I always imagined that there were competing space programs, just as I imagine there were competing teams developing warp engines. Those teams might have been more diverse.
One good thing about the episode Daedelus is we get to meet a black scientist (pioneer of the transporter), who was close with Archer's dad. That gives the idea that there was a community of scientists and engineers who were developing all the technology of space exploration in parallel (e.g. phase weapons, replicators, hull polarisation, artificial gravity).
 
That was a great history lesson t smitts! It gave me a new perspective on the episode. Now I will have to give it a rewatch.....
 
Thanks for your thoughts. I think First Flight is a strong episode with an interesting angle, that tends to get overlooked. A "quiet achiever".

Interesting that the episode parallels with real life astronauts. I don't know much about NASA history so will have to take your word!

The definitive book of the Mercury astronauts is Tom Wolfe's "The Right Stuff". Pretty much any library should have it Skip the movie. None of the real-life astronauts were impressed and neither was I. It spent most of the time idolizing Chuck Yeager and it's depiction of Gus Grissom as a panicky screw-up is unforgiveable, especially when you consider that he was the only one of the seven Mercury astronauts who wasn't alive at the time the movie who couldn't defend himself.

Pretty much all the Mercury astronauts wrote books, and I recommend John Glenn and Deke Slayton's autobiographies the most, and although it focuses more on the Apollo program, the HBO miniseries "From the Earth to the Moon" is terrific as well and worth checking out if you can find it (also count how many Star Trek actors you can spot it ;)).

I hadn't thought about it, but I guess it is quite a white, male scenario. Not that there are many people in the episode anyway. I always imagined that there were competing space programs, just as I imagine there were competing teams developing warp engines. Those teams might have been more diverse.

Yeah, there's not too many characters in this one, but when you factor in "Broken Bow" and possibly "Regeneration" (I'm not sure whether than arctic research team was Starfleet or not), it's kind of an unfortunate pattern. I remember seeing a Youtube video once where someone criticizes the 2009 Trek for a scene at Kirk's hearing where you pan out to this sea of white performers as the Starfleets cadets in the crowd (and he said putting Tyler Perry in the scene as an admiral does not cancel that out).

It's possible some other agencies where operating concurrently to Starfleet at the time (though, regardless, this still doesn't make the show look very good in this respect). In the 60's, the US Air Force was attempting to develop a Manned Orbiting Laboratory, which ultimately never went anywhere, and most of the Air Force pilots assigned to the program were later taken in by NASA (far too late for Apollo or Skylab flights, but most later flew on the shuttle).

Actually, coming back to the original subject, one of the MOL pilots (I don't recall his name) was African American, which actually made him the first African American astronaut (all the MOL pilots were technically astronauts, even though they had nothing to do with NASA). Unfortunately, he was killed in a plane crash about a year before the MOL pilots joined NASA. Had he lived, then, based on seniority, he probably would've been the first African American in space.

Back to the episode itself, I'd be interested to know if anyone's ever asked Carradine about his work in this episode.
 
Oh hey, glad you bumped this! As I said in the "Regeneration" topic, I should be watching this with my friend tonight. So I'll chime in with anything that comes to mind tomorrow. I'll read what you posted here at that point. :)
 
I found it a bit of a stretch that T'Pol knew nothing about Robinson's flight
The name Chuck Yeager is fairly well know, however Scott Crossfield's name isn't. It perfectly plausible that T'Pol wouldn't know who Robinson is/was.

I imagine there were competing teams developing warp engines. Those teams might have been more diverse.
It's possible some other agencies where operating concurrently to Starfleet at the time (though, regardless, this still doesn't make the show look very good in this respect)
First Flight takes place a couple of decades before United Earth is fully formed and I like that idea of competition between teams, perhaps competing national groups.

"
 
-Memory Alpha says the earlier parts of this episode took place in 2143, but can't really catch any lines in the episode that places the year, other than it being about seven or eight years before they laid the keel for the NX-01 (and we don't know how long it took to build, especially given how long the NX-02 took)

It's backdated from "Fight or Flight", the second episode of Season 1 (set in 2151), in which Archer says he's known Trip for eight years.
 
Just finished a rewatch....and wondering why there was no mention of Trip getting into trouble with assisting in the NX-Beta flight? And why Robinson and Archer had to switch seats in order for Archer to take over flight control? (Or maybe the piloting COULD have been done from both positions, except maybe the co pilot had to sit in the specific seat to manipulate the intermix tubes?) And it was annoying that Starfleet basically catered to,the whims of the Vulcan Council.

I did find it interesting that when T'Pol made comments on Archer's story, she did not make any comments in defense of the Vulcan Council. Of course, even this very episode had her mentioning how their findings in the nebula would cause some debate with the science directorate....and this WAS after Shockwave, in which T'Pol defended Archer to Soval. It was nice to see the growth in T'Pol from the strict adherence to the High Command in S1 to a more "independent thinking" T'Pol in S2. And I thought it was a very nice touch that SHE was the one to suggest the name "Robinson Nebula".
 
If Keith Carradine had been cast as Archer that would have been an improvment, he's alway brought a easy casual style to his acting roles.

Plus I find his indirect connection to Captain Kirk to be interesting.

"
 
I found it a bit of a stretch that T'Pol knew nothing about Robinson's flight
The name Chuck Yeager is fairly well know, however Scott Crossfield's name isn't. It perfectly plausible that T'Pol wouldn't know who Robinson is/was.

Except Robinson DID make the first flight that broke the Warp 2 barrier, so, in this case, HE'D be Yeager and Archer would be Crossfield.



Just finished a rewatch....and wondering why there was no mention of Trip getting into trouble with assisting in the NX-Beta flight? And why Robinson and Archer had to switch seats in order for Archer to take over flight control? (Or maybe the piloting COULD have been done from both positions, except maybe the co pilot had to sit in the specific seat to manipulate the intermix tubes?) And it was annoying that Starfleet basically catered to,the whims of the Vulcan Council.

I did find it interesting that when T'Pol made comments on Archer's story, she did not make any comments in defense of the Vulcan Council. Of course, even this very episode had her mentioning how their findings in the nebula would cause some debate with the science directorate....and this WAS after Shockwave, in which T'Pol defended Archer to Soval. It was nice to see the growth in T'Pol from the strict adherence to the High Command in S1 to a more "independent thinking" T'Pol in S2. And I thought it was a very nice touch that SHE was the one to suggest the name "Robinson Nebula".

Yeah, Starfleet comes off as kind of whipped here, though keep in mind that the Vulcans have kind been humanity's babysitter for several decades at this point and it's probably a tough habit to break.

Is it wrong to say I'd have preferred Robinson as captain of the Enterprise to Archer?

If Keith Carradine had been cast as Archer that would have been an improvment, he's alway brought a easy casual style to his acting roles.

Plus I find his indirect connection to Captain Kirk to be interesting.

"

I'm not so sure about that. While Carradine is rather charismatic, we get the impression that, while Archer needed to learn to take more risks, Robinson's a bit TOO willing to take risks. I read a review recently that suggested his climbing accident may have been the result of that.
 
I'm not so sure about that. While Carradine is rather charismatic, we get the impression that, while Archer needed to learn to take more risks, Robinson's a bit TOO willing to take risks. I read a review recently that suggested his climbing accident may have been the result of that.
Yes. And I was a little bothered when Robinson spoke of Archer being "by the book" as a negative thing. And even though Archer was probably a little TOO focused, at the detriment of his personal life, I think that a trait like that can be changed over time.

Also, as charismatic as I think Robinson was, I think he was more self-absorbed than Archer. I believe Archer was much more personable (though way more intense in the early years). And Archer's intensity and drive came more from the fact that he wanted his father's work to succeed.

It appears this is where the Archer/Tucker friendship began. It could have been a Robonson/Tucker friendship as well, but again, I feel Archer was more personable and made the connection, while Robinson was more focused on himself and his own goals.

In the end, I think you want a Captain that is not just technically proficient, but one with the interpersonal skills that can form the bonds that make people CARE and WANT to follow him. Charisma can fade over time, but the friendships can stay strong .
 
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Finally got to watch it last night (my friend and I actually went all the way from "First Flight" through to "The Xindi" which was a pretty great ride) and I can say that, yeah, you nailed it in your post, t_smitts. This was a great episode -- even better than I remembered from 12 or so years ago, and I remembered really liking it.

My friend had the same mentality for most of it, though. "Erm, why is Archer taking this guy's death so hard, again? Just... powerful memories, I guess?" But I think it ultimately worked. The way the two pilots worked together, broke all the rules, I don't know, I think it clicked. The rationale materialized. It made perfect sense in the end.

I loved Forrest, too. He has the slightest hint of a smirk at the end of that scolding. Armstrong did a wonderful job in this episode. Hell, Forrest has proven a far better character than my memory served.
 
As I recall, I liked the flashback material, but the framing story was pretty trite. It's probably one of S2's better ones, but isn't up there with "Dead Stop", "Regeneration" and "Cogenitor".
 
I liked the framing story. I like when the characters just hang out and reveal something about themselves (the framing story of Carbon Creek is another example).
 
Plus I find his indirect connection to Captain Kirk to be interesting.

Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious, but what connection?
Captain Kirk is (of course) played by William Statner.

Shatner does Priceline.com commercials.

His daughter in those commercial is played by Kaley Cuoco-Sweeting.

Cuoco is on The Big Bang Theory, she plays Penny.

Penny's father on the show is named Wyatt (one appearance).

Wyatt was played by Keith Carradine.

"
 
Plus I find his indirect connection to Captain Kirk to be interesting.

Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious, but what connection?
Captain Kirk is (of course) played by William Statner.

Shatner does Priceline.com commercials.

His daughter in those commercial is played by Kaley Cuoco-Sweeting.

Cuoco is on The Big Bang Theory, she plays Penny.

Penny's father on the show is named Wyatt (one appearance).

Wyatt was played by Keith Carradine.

"

However did I not get that...?
 
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