First Contact Vs. Star Trek XI
- Thread starter Falcor5
- Start date
Picard has flaws which he must over come. Kirk has flaws but instead of them being used to develop his character, they're glorified to look as though Kirk is always right.
No shaky cameras, no rushing story moments, no overly bright shots, interesting premise and relevant moments in the Trek lore (even if I still have trouble accepting them). We also have Jerry Goldsmith giving us his great trek music without using the same theme over, and over, and over again.
Vote = First Contact
No shaky cameras, no rushing story moments, no overly bright shots, interesting premise and relevant moments in the Trek lore (even if I still have trouble accepting them). We also have Jerry Goldsmith giving us his great trek music without using the same theme over, and over, and over again.
Vote = First Contact
The fight on the deflector dish is also far better than the fight on the drilling beam, imo (and since First Contact came first, it's even more original).
Don't agree. All you need to know for the story of the movie is that Picard was raped by the Borg in the past, and that's stated a lot of times in the movie.
Actually, First Contact does an excellent job at bringing Star Trek to newcomers. Every important fact you need to know about TNG and Star Trek as a whole is stated quickly and efficient. Every key feature of the characters are mentioned or seen in use at least once, from Picard's love for classic literature and music, over Geordi being a blind man with artificial vision to Troi being empathic, that it all began with Cochrane and that the Vulcans are the most important allies in the Federation history, that Romulans are bad guys just waiting for an opportunity, how large the Federation is, that the society has evolved and that they don't use money anymore, that Klingons have a great sense of honor and lust for battle etc..., heck, they even have Barclay in a cameo. They included the Defiant from DS9 and the holographic doctor from Voyager. Every important trademark is prominently featured in this one movie.
It works perfectly as a standalone movie, because everything you need to understand is in there. It did a far better job in explaining all the important things of the Star Trek universe to non-fans than the new movie did, in my opinion.
Don't agree. All you need to know for the story of the movie is that Picard was raped by the Borg in the past, and that's stated a lot of times in the movie.
Actually, First Contact does an excellent job at bringing Star Trek to newcomers. Every important fact you need to know about TNG and Star Trek as a whole is stated quickly and efficient. Every key feature of the characters are mentioned or seen in use at least once, from Picard's love for classic literature and music, over Geordi being a blind man with artificial vision to Troi being empathic, that it all began with Cochrane and that the Vulcans are the most important allies in the Federation history, that Romulans are bad guys just waiting for an opportunity, how large the Federation is, that the society has evolved and that they don't use money anymore, that Klingons have a great sense of honor and lust for battle etc..., heck, they even have Barclay in a cameo. They included the Defiant from DS9 and the holographic doctor from Voyager. Every important trademark is prominently featured in this one movie.
It works perfectly as a standalone movie, because everything you need to understand is in there. It did a far better job in explaining all the important things of the Star Trek universe to non-fans than the new movie did, in my opinion.
Star Trek: First Contact (1996) is a solid film, the best made with the TNG cast, and one of my favorites of the series. It also makes a good introduction to the series for newcomers, and is accessible without being stupid.
But Star Trek (2009) is also a solid film, with a great cast that is well-utilized. In addition, it provides a good introduction to the series for newcomers, and is also very accessible without being (too) stupid.
I might give the edge to the 1996 film, but it is close enough that I'm calling this one a tie.
But Star Trek (2009) is also a solid film, with a great cast that is well-utilized. In addition, it provides a good introduction to the series for newcomers, and is also very accessible without being (too) stupid.
I might give the edge to the 1996 film, but it is close enough that I'm calling this one a tie.
Hm. I'd agree with those upthread who consider First Contact an entirely self-contained story also, but I do feel First Contact is a self-contained story that's also very conscious of its ties and connections to the larger Star Trek continuity, admittedly inevitable given that it's a movie based directly on the TV series rather than a reboot. So this comparison would endear FC to me more than XI - the only time I felt XI was really channeling its connection to a previous saga was, unsurprisingly, when Leonard Nimoy was on the screen.
That said, it'd be fairly close for me. First Contact remains the one TNG movie that really works, and far from character assassinating Picard gives him some very nice, noble moments in addition to his more controversial vendetta against the Borg (which I also liked - even Mon Capitan needs to snap once in his crystal life to show there's something behind his otherwise impeccable facade).
On the other hand, while I had problems with the new movie it was pretty ballsy in places and overall great fun. Even despite my misgivings I was grinning from ear to ear, and that's saying something.
Really? From the writers of Transformers? Really?
Transformers? That film is almost good when you compare it to TRANSFORMERS 2! If there was ever a group of writers who seemed to have taken strides to NOT learn from criticisms, it's these two. They took everything I hated about the first Transformers movie and multiplied it by a factor of 10.
God, they literally said "The testicles were in the script". You know? FOR KIDS!
Surprisingly yes.
True there is quite a bit of stupidity about the new movie's plot if one stops to think about it, and I've found the frenetic pace is a tad wearisome near the end of the movie, but the character writing and acting is solid and above par and the story is mostly well paced, albeit brisk.
I personally would call it not too stupid, yes, and given my complete lack of interest in anything else Orci & Kurtzmann related I could be more surprised by my own opinion.
That observation I made long time ago. Ever read one of the Trekmovie discussions they are involved with? The way they react to criticism is pretty funny.
What makes First Contact my prefered choice and an over the top awesome film is the depiction of humanity taking its first steps toward a new future; the earth woman looking out of the Enterprise at Earth for the first time, Cochrane pulling himself together seeing the wonder of space, and the first Vulcan ship landing on our planet. Those moments are simply unforgetably classic and monumental.
The fact that the date of First Contact is set on April 5, 2063 - within the reach of a lifetime - is an additionally profound tip of the hat to the fact that in spite of currently uncertain times, humanity has potential to do and see amazing things in the 21st century; that we don't have to wait until the 23rd century to begin reeping the benefits of a better world.
More than action, politics, or philosophy, Star Trek throughout the last 43 odd years has been, most of all, about hope. First Contact, of all the 11 ST films, in my opinion does the best job of depicting that message.
The fact that the date of First Contact is set on April 5, 2063 - within the reach of a lifetime - is an additionally profound tip of the hat to the fact that in spite of currently uncertain times, humanity has potential to do and see amazing things in the 21st century; that we don't have to wait until the 23rd century to begin reeping the benefits of a better world.
More than action, politics, or philosophy, Star Trek throughout the last 43 odd years has been, most of all, about hope. First Contact, of all the 11 ST films, in my opinion does the best job of depicting that message.
I can't personally vouch for the quality of the Transformers franchise, as I have steered clear of it, but every review I've read has suggested that they're about as intelligent as one could expect from juvenille action films doubling as toy-line commercials.
On the other hand, while the plot was occasionaly wonky and the science sometimes lapsed (although Kurtzman and Orci did a good job defending the science in the film in an interview I wish I had the link to, and, moreover, much of the film gets away with murder because the science is just so damned vague), most of the characters were very well-defined, the humor was consistant, and the pace was spot-on (although this can be attributed as much to judicious editing amd Abrams' direction as to the screenplay).
The pacing in the first Transformers film is dire. It's not that it's stupid that bugged me, but rather how dull it is. But then quite a bit - the poor pacing, the godawful and limp action sequences - can be attributed to Michael Bay's direction. Even so, the decision to make the focus of the movie a guy and his car rather than the robots - fairly stupid in itself given how shallow the lead is - is entirely Orci & Kurtzmann's fault, if their interviews are any indication (they gush over the idea.)
Back to TWOK and 09.... They both have their good points, and if the latter could get my brother and his wife enthusiastic, that's a good thing! ^^
In regards to 09, what good points?
Neither of which are bad, really. If there's a movie where most mainstream audiences love but a minority of Trekkies hate, Trek wins. If there's a movie that makes a ton of money and greenlights a sequel even before it's released despite the lack of quality, Trek wins.
I'm not the type to say "As long as it's Trek, it's good." God knows that Voyager taught me the error of such thinking. But if this means that the franchise lives longer, the way TMP was trashed by 50% of fans and critics alike yet still made enough to get the superior TWOK made, then so be it.
No, that's me talking. But who would you prefer? Let's see if we can get them in.
Me too. I went into that movie with a co-worker expecting utter garbage but I had a good time. I went a second time with my brother, who had tuned out on Trek ages ago and who expected to hate it, and we had a good time. I went a third time, a little high (and THC makes me more critical than usual), and still had a good time. So yeah, it is the audience talking--we are it.
