Final Countdown..movie

[Mr. Laser Beam]

So do any of you think the Captain should have gone through with the attack? Assuming that the Nimitz could have escaped from the anomaly at the end of the film, of course (perhaps the Captain called off the attack only because he didn't think it could, and that he didn't want his forces snatched from the timeline in the middle of the melee).

Me, I don't think so. I think he was right to call it off. As Sheen says at the end: "At least we returned to the same world we left." That says it all, really.

 

[hyzmarca]

So do any of you think the Captain should have gone through with the attack? Assuming that the Nimitz could have escaped from the anomaly at the end of the film, of course (perhaps the Captain called off the attack only because he didn't think it could, and that he didn't want his forces snatched from the timeline in the middle of the melee).

Me, I don't think so. I think he was right to call it off. As Sheen says at the end: "At least we returned to the same world we left." That says it all, really.

Yep, destroying the Japanese fleet would have prevented one attack, but the end wresult would have been far worse. Without Pearl Harbor, it would have been impossible to justify US entry into WWII to the American people. Without the massive patriotism-induced war economy, the Great Depression would have lasted longer. The crippling of Japanese forces in the Pacific wouldn't have merely delayed the expansion of the Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere while the War in Europe would go on without American intervention. Without American nuclear weapons, Japan wouldn't have surrendered unconditionally but instead opted for a negotiated peace. In the end, the Russians would be the dominant Allied Power. The USSR would probably end up with a bigger chunk of Europe than they did originally. And a large Chunk of Asia, while Japan would control the rest.

 

[WendellM]

So do any of you think the Captain should have gone through with the attack?

Me as a teenager watching in the 80s sure did! Yeah, I was a Star Trek fan and knew all about not interfering in the past - but this was a USN carrier at Pearl Harbor in December, 1941 - do your duty: blow that Japanese fleet up! They already tried to do a sneak attack; you've still got your casus belli.

I had more mixed feeling later. But even on rewatching years later, the ending still doesn't feel quite right. Sheen's line still feels like a cop-out (not saying they had to attack, but give a better reason - what, is ours the "best of all possible worlds"?). And this is from someone who doesn't think the "alien contact" scene in Contact was a cop-out (I'm apparently one of about a dozen on the whole planet ).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

[Sheen's line still feels like a cop-out (not saying they had to attack, but give a better reason - what, is ours the "best of all possible worlds"?).

No, but it's no *worse* than what they had. It's too great a risk to take.

 

[Zachary Smith]

39 years passed between Pearl Harbor and the film, "The Final Countdown". This year marks 29 years since the film was made. Kind of scary when you think about that. How much better would a MODERN carrier be against the Japanese task force than one that is 30 years outdated from now?

 

[hyzmarca]

Not much better.

The Nimitiz Class is still the best. There really hasn't been much need to update it.
And the Navy recently retired all of their F-14s in favor of the Super Hornet, which is newer and more versatile but less capable in low-speed dogfights.

 

[Mr Light]

The Tomcats are gone?!?!?! Good lord... when I was a kid all I ever drew were Tomcats and aircraft carriers!

 

[Neopeius]

So do any of you think the Captain should have gone through with the attack? Assuming that the Nimitz could have escaped from the anomaly at the end of the film, of course (perhaps the Captain called off the attack only because he didn't think it could, and that he didn't want his forces snatched from the timeline in the middle of the melee).

Me, I don't think so. I think he was right to call it off. As Sheen says at the end: "At least we returned to the same world we left." That says it all, really.

Yep, destroying the Japanese fleet would have prevented one attack, but the end wresult would have been far worse. Without Pearl Harbor, it would have been impossible to justify US entry into WWII to the American people. Without the massive patriotism-induced war economy, the Great Depression would have lasted longer. The crippling of Japanese forces in the Pacific wouldn't have merely delayed the expansion of the Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere while the War in Europe would go on without American intervention. Without American nuclear weapons, Japan wouldn't have surrendered unconditionally but instead opted for a negotiated peace. In the end, the Russians would be the dominant Allied Power. The USSR would probably end up with a bigger chunk of Europe than they did originally. And a large Chunk of Asia, while Japan would control the rest.

First off, if the Nimitz sank the Japanese fleet and air wing within sight of Hawaii, the war would be on, regardless. Besides, the Japanese Ambassador would have still submitted the declaration of war that afternoon.

But even had the Japanese never attacked America on 12/7, we would have

A. Provoked Japan into war some other way.

B. Gone to war to help England out in the Pacific

C. Gone to war after enough naval sinkings by the Germans in the Atlantic.

American involvement in WW2 was inevitable.

I had more mixed feeling later. But even on rewatching years later, the ending still doesn't feel quite right. Sheen's line still feels like a cop-out (not saying they had to attack, but give a better reason - what, is ours the "best of all possible worlds"?).

There is a longer scene which ended up on the cutting room floor. Worth watching on the DVD.

And this is from someone who doesn't think the "alien contact" scene in Contact was a cop-out (I'm apparently one of about a dozen on the whole planet ).

Nah, that was one of the least egregiously bad scenes in the movie.

 

[Brandonv]

I wanted them to go snuff the Japanese Fleet. If you like the premise, try the John Birmingham "Weapons" trilogy-a UN Fleet from 2020 or something like that(2035?) gets transported to the Battle of Midway. Its a hell of a ride, a great series.

I just went to the library and checked out "Weapons of Choice". It has been a real page turner so far.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Weren't most of the Nimitz crew as seen in this film (apart from the most senior officers, such as the Captain, First Officer, CAG, dtc.) played by the *real* crewmen of the ship?

 

[Forbin]

Yup. Full Navy cooperation.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Cool.

 

[Daneel]

I rented this movie a few years ago. To be honest, I was a little disappointed. It was fun, in parts, but many of the characters seemed barely there. Sheen and Douglas were kind of wasted in their roles, IMO. In fact, I'm not even really sure why Sheen's character had to be there in the first place. Yeah, that guy who stayed back in the past ordered it, but why? To maintain the timeline he remembered? IIRC, Sheen didn't really make much of a difference. He offered a few theories, but I don't recall Douglas taking them into account much during his actions. But perhaps I'm remembering wrong, I don't know. Oh yeah, and I had a feeling from the beginning that someone was going to stay in the past and turn out to be the mysterious figure in the car, and once that one guy got stuck on the beach with that woman, it became pretty clear who it was going to be, so the "twist ending" didn't really come as any shock to me.

Overall, it's an okay movie, but not too memorable. Personally, I prefer this Final Countdown.

 

[Jedi Marso]

One of my favorite movies of all time, and quite instrumental in my choice of career.

On the DVD extras they do an interview with some of the pilots from VF-84 who participated in filming the aerial scenes. Some of their stories are just flat out awesome, most notably some of stuff surrounding the scene where it looks like Fox Farrel was about to fly an F-14 into the water, and another in which they describe the aftermath of their spurned attempt to meet Catherine Whatserface.

Oh, and wouldn't it have made for a boring movie if the Nimitz had appeared somewhere else?

Yellend: "CAG, we've figured it out. It's December the 6th, 1941."
CAG: "No shit?!"
Yellend: "Yup. The bad news is, we're 100 miles off the coast of Australia."
CAG: "Balls!"

 

[Jedi Marso]

Oh, and I HIGHLY recommend John Birmingham's series. It delivers on levels The Final Countdown could only imagine.

 

[Forbin]

...most notably some of stuff surrounding the scene where it looks like Fox Farrel was about to fly an F-14 into the water, ...

Didn't his wife have a fit when she saw the footage, or something like that?

 

[Jedi Marso]

...most notably some of stuff surrounding the scene where it looks like Fox Farrel was about to fly an F-14 into the water, ...

Didn't his wife have a fit when she saw the footage, or something like that?

No, what happened was that the sound editor took her to the daily room and told her what he was about to show her, and then asked her to watch, and then scream into a mic as if she thought her husband was about to die. The sound editor then took her recorded scream and mixed it with the sound of the Tomcat's engines as they throttled up during the pullout, giving it a signature sound unique to that scene, never heard before or since. Then when you go back and listen to it you can hear how bizarre it all sounds.

That particular scene got the attention of the brass, too. Farrell later made captain before he retired though, so obviously there were no repercussions.