Filming order?

[Falconer]

It’s pretty easy to find production order, and airdate order, and even the order in which the music scores were recorded. But what about the order in which Shatner actually delivered his lines? I have heard it is close to production order, but not exactly the same. Can anyone post it here, or recommend a book that would cover this info? Thanks!

 

[Methuselah Flint]

Do you mean the Captain’s Logs? If so, interesting question! Never really thought about it, but I would assume after the episodes were shot, in post-production.

 

[J.T.B.]

It’s pretty easy to find production order, and airdate order, and even the order in which the music scores were recorded. But what about the order in which Shatner actually delivered his lines? I have heard it is close to production order, but not exactly the same. Can anyone post it here, or recommend a book that would cover this info? Thanks!

To find the actual order scenes were shot would require compiling stacks of production schedule information. AFAIK no one has done that, if the information is even available.

 

[Falconer]

I wasn’t thinking of the Captain’s Logs specifically, nor the order of filming within an episode. Just any deviances from production order, i.e., maybe episode 49 was filmed before episode 48.

 

[MAGolding]

See posts numbers 69, 79 & 80 on page 4, and 81 & 84 on page 5, in the thread: https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/the-cage-or-the-menagerie.301488/page-4#post-13130758

They mention various sources for the production dates and production orders of various episodes.

 

[Christopher]

Just any deviances from production order, i.e., maybe episode 49 was filmed before episode 48.

Huh? The order in which they were filmed is production order.

 

[Falconer]

Ah, okay, thanks. I guess I was unsure because of an old (very old) post that I read:

Just a tiny nuance here: The production number doesn't track perfectly with the filming order.

I don’t know if anyone can explain what he means, here.

 

[Christopher]

Ah, okay, thanks. I guess I was unsure because of an old (very old) post that I read:


I don’t know if anyone can explain what he means, here.

It was in response to a comment about TNG: "Unification, Part II" being filmed before Part I to accommodate Leonard Nimoy's availability. However, the statement seems to be incorrect, since the production number for Part II is 40275-207 and Part I is 40275-208, so the numbers do agree with filming order.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

The only way this becomes a story is if we get into the weeds, with post-production "finishing" order. For instance "The Corbomite Maneuver" famously took a longer time to get its miniature effects in the can. Likewise, music recording dates don't always track with production order.

 

[alchemist]

Ah, okay, thanks. I guess I was unsure because of an old (very old) post that I read:


I don’t know if anyone can explain what he means, here.

It's hard to read his mind, but I think he was referring to this fact about TOS:

The production number for "A Taste of Armageddon" was (6149)-23 and it's principal photography was from 12/27/66 to 1/4/1967. Interestingly, the production number for "Space Seed" was (6149)-24, and the actors went before the cameras from 12/15/1966 until 12/22/1966.

Time travel!

 

[ZapBrannigan]

It's hard to read his mind, but I think he was referring to this fact about TOS:

The production number for "A Taste of Armageddon" was (6149)-23 and it's principal photography was from 12/27/66 to 1/4/1967. Interestingly, the production number for "Space Seed" was (6149)-24, and the actors went before the cameras from 12/15/1966 until 12/22/1966.

Time travel!

I never noticed that; I wonder what caused it. If anything, I would have guessed "Space Seed" would be delayed, due to its fancy Botany Bay interior and the need to fabricate an interesting door for Sickbay's decompression chamber. But after being slated as 24, it went ahead of 23?

Also, it looks like they got five days off for Christmas.

 

[Lance]

Also, not necessarily relevant to TOS but may be, is the notion of reshoots and cross overs. More common in movies, but production on TV doesn't always line up perfectly, so scenes from one episode could theoretically be shot at the same time as another in order for both to make the most cost effective use of (for example) filming out on a non-studio location. Filming everything you need together while using the one location, even across multiple episodes, would naturally be cheaper than getting everybody hauled out there several times.

The only reliable gauge is to judge them according to when a finished version is 'in the can', so to speak. That's production order.

 

[Christopher]

Also, not necessarily relevant to TOS but may be, is the notion of reshoots and cross overs. More common in movies, but production on TV doesn't always line up perfectly, so scenes from one episode could theoretically be shot at the same time as another in order for both to make the most cost effective use of (for example) filming out on a non-studio location. Filming everything you need together while using the one location, even across multiple episodes, would naturally be cheaper than getting everybody hauled out there several times.

The only reliable gauge is to judge them according to when a finished version is 'in the can', so to speak. That's production order.

Something like that would typically be just a small portion of the whole, though. The order would be determined by when the bulk of the episode was shot, even if some pickup work might be done a couple of weeks later, for example. Such pickup work might technically count as part of the subsequent episode's production schedule, just sort of slipped in wherever it can fit.

 

[Maurice]

[...]so scenes from one episode could theoretically be shot at the same time as another in order for both to make the most cost effective use of (for example) filming out on a non-studio location. Filming everything you need together while using the one location, even across multiple episodes, would naturally be cheaper than getting everybody hauled out there several times.

That's how the BBC worked in the 2nd season (and I think those after) of Blake's 7 where they would shoot location blocks (on film) for two episodes and then go to the studio and shoot two episodes worth of soundstage blocks (on video) (I am oversimplifying this to keep it clear). My Three Sons would shoot all the Fred McMurray scenes for a bunch of episodes in blocks (something like 6 weeks on, 10 weeks off, 6 weeks on again), and while he was away they would go back and shoot all the scenes without him.

However, typically US shows, and Trek in particular shoot entire episodes at once. It's comparatively rare to shoot part of one episode during the production of another, and usually that only happens because of a production issue (e.g. Barbara Luna getting the flu, or realizing you need some extra bit refilmed or shot new to make an episode work).

 

[Christopher]

That's how the BBC worked in the 2nd season (and I think those after) of Blake's 7 where they would shoot location blocks (on film) for two episodes and then go to the studio and shoot two episodes worth of soundstage blocks (on video) (I am oversimplifying this to keep it clear).

That was standard for a lot of BBC shows back in the day. Early Doctor Who, for instance, was shot almost as a live performance with minimal breaks or edits, so they had to shoot all the filmed material like location shots, special effects, and fight/stunt sequences weeks ahead of time so they'd be processed and edited in time for the taping, where they'd basically be played back live at the appropriate points in the story. And then there was Monty Python's Flying Circus, which was taped before a studio audience and thus needed to run the film segments between the sketches in a similar way.

However, typically US shows, and Trek in particular shoot entire episodes at once. It's comparatively rare to shoot part of one episode during the production of another, and usually that only happens because of a production issue (e.g. Barbara Luna getting the flu, or realizing you need some extra bit refilmed or shot new to make an episode work).

Or in the case of something logistically complex like the Arrowverse's multi-series crossovers. They have to work around the actors' schedules, and the individual shows generally do one or two episodes that are light on the lead characters so that the actors can take that time off to shoot the crossover. So in that case, the shooting schedule for the crossover can be spread out over weeks, overlapping multiple earlier and later episodes.

But yes, most of the time, the procedure is to do all of the principal photography on one episode, take a day or two off, then shoot all of the next episode, etc. The only stuff that gets shot later is visual effects, insert shots (e.g. close-ups on characters' hands doing things), stuff that doesn't involve the actors. Particularly in older episodic shows where there were episode-specific sets that had to be torn down at the end of a shoot to make room for the next episode's sets. It wouldn't have made sense to break up the shooting schedules for those.

 

[diankra]

That's how the BBC worked in the 2nd season (and I think those after) of Blake's 7 where they would shoot location blocks (on film) for two episodes and then go to the studio and shoot two episodes worth of soundstage blocks (on video) (I am oversimplifying this to keep it clear). My Three Sons would shoot all the Fred McMurray scenes for a bunch of episodes in blocks (something like 6 weeks on, 10 weeks off, 6 weeks on again), and while he was away they would go back and shoot all the scenes without him.

However, typically US shows, and Trek in particular shoot entire episodes at once. It's comparatively rare to shoot part of one episode during the production of another, and usually that only happens because of a production issue (e.g. Barbara Luna getting the flu, or realizing you need some extra bit refilmed or shot new to make an episode work).

The difference is that Trek had standing sets, whereas the BBC put up and took down all sets for each studio session. So from season two B7 would combine two episodes, shooting all the Liberator flight deck scenes at once so the set wasn't needed for the other session (I have the studio script for Horizon, no flight deck scenes, but all the teleport bay and corridor scenes for Shadow).
On Who, by the 70s, the TARDIS scenes were always left till last, because if time ran out they could be done in the next story. Whereas on Trek, the bridge scenes were often done first, while the guest sets were being built.

 

[Harvey]

Whereas on Trek, the bridge scenes were often done first, while the guest sets were being built.

This may have become standard practice on the later shows, but on the original series, the bridge scenes were often scheduled for later in the shoot. Not sure of the exact percentage, but I just looked at the shooting schedules for ten random shows and six out of ten pushed the bridge scenes until after the first day.

 

[Lance]

UK cop show The Bill, which typically broadcast between 90 and 110 episodes per season for its 25 year run, used a system of three production units, lead by different staff and a different director, and each working on different episodes, but overlapping in terms of filming schedule. So, the actors might be taping scenes for any of those three episodes within minutes of each other, constantly having to try and stay in character for whichever one of the three they were filming (to help them, schedules were usually limited to the current dialogue and were rehearse-record, but it seems to me like a minor miracle that episodes would come out perfectly formed given the apparent chaos behind making them!)

A 'production order', therefore, in the case of The Bill could only be whatever date a fully finished and edited copy of any given episode existed in post.

 

[Christopher]

UK cop show The Bill, which typically broadcast between 90 and 110 episodes per season for its 25 year run, used a system of three production units, lead by different staff and a different director, and each working on different episodes, but overlapping in terms of filming schedule.

There were a couple of US shows that did something like that, having two simultaneous units to keep up the production schedule, but they did it by using alternating lead actors. The '60s Western Maverick started with just one lead, but then added his brother to alternate with him (and eventually a couple of other brothers making at least occasional appearances). The scripts were written generically, without knowing in advance which lead they'd go to, and the brothers' distinct personalities came through strictly via the actors' performances.

 

[diankra]

If you watch season two of Primeval and Moving Wallpaper, you'll spot that (after a few episodes) Ben Miller is wearing the same suit in both of them. They were shot in different studios on the same lot, and he'd move from one to the other as needed, without having to pause for a costume change.