Fighters ?

[James Wright]

In an episode of DS9 when the Federation moves to retake DS9 during the war with the Dominion we hear Sisko tell fighter craft to attack the Cardasian ships.
How long are the fighters and what kind of weapons did the carry?
Could a single seat fighter like the Su-47 Berkut or the F-22 Raptor be designed in the Trek Universe?
Thanks!

JDW

 

[Tigger]

To my knowledge, there is no hard data on the Peregrine class fighter (including whether or not Peregrine is the actual name of the class). However, it is believed to be a single-seater. EAS has some speculative data, as does DITL.

A Trek fighter would likely need to be larger then a current Terran fighter because of the need to carry at least a fusion/impulse drive, if not a warp drive (since we have never seen a dedicated carrier).

 

[James Wright]

Tigger, you just about answered a question I forgot to include in my original post. Are those fighters warp capable ships or to they have to be carried into range of the enemy forces and launched?
I wonder if they might not be carried in the shuttlebays of the large Federation starships? That could explain why we don't see carrier type starships.
Thanks!

JDW

 

[nx1701g]

We have actually seen the fighters shown in the Dominion War being utilized by Starfleet personnel (well Maquis at least) in the two part episode "The Maquis". They were shown to be manned by two people in those episodes (Cal Hudson and another colonist were in one) and were described as being warp capable. They had phasers and torpedo launchers.

Federation Attack Fighter

 

[Cicero]

To my knowledge, there is no hard data on the Peregrine class fighter (including whether or not Peregrine is the actual name of the class). However, it is believed to be a single-seater. EAS has some speculative data, as does DITL.

A Trek fighter would likely need to be larger then a current Terran fighter because of the need to carry at least a fusion/impulse drive, if not a warp drive (since we have never seen a dedicated carrier).

The Akira was designed (offscreen) as a through-deck carrier, though. Many of those are present in Deep Space Nine's battle scenes.

 

[James Wright]

In Star Trek Nemesis was the ship Data & Picard stole to get back to the Enterprise a fighter? It was smaller than the fighters seen on DS9!
Could it have been warp capable?
Thanks!

JDW

 

[Timo]

The DS9 craft was at least 15 meters long and (without possible wing folding) wide, judging by the fact that two people could sit shoulder to shoulder in the cockpit. The ST:NEM craft was barely the size of a small automobile, with tandem seating.

I rather doubt the NEM craft would have had enough space onboard to accommodate a warp drive, but perhaps something with low performance could have been on board anyway. In contrast, I'd argue that the DS9 craft had relatively high performance, perhaps around warp 5, as all indications are that they could outrun a runabout in "The Maquis".

We theoretically saw an alternate cockpit configuration for the DS9 fighter in the mirror universe, in the episode where the rebels defended DS9 against Regent Worf. That interior was a revamp of the shuttlecraft cockpit set, rather than of the more cramped shuttlepod set that was used in "The Maquis". But that's the Mirror Universe, and might not really count.

We also saw an alternate, shuttlecraft-set-based cockpit in TNG "Preemptive Strike", but it was not solidly established that this belonged to the Federation fightercraft, as the Maquis swarm there had other types of craft present as well. And it does seem that the Federation fightercraft was designed specifically to mesh with the shuttlepod set, as the size, configuration and angle of the forward window is very close to the shuttlepod equivalent. This would allow for the 15 m length, even though one may imagine a 30 m fightercraft just as easily. The 30 m craft has the drawback of not easily fitting aboard starships, though - certainly not aboard the Akira if that is the desired goal.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tigger]

The Akira was designed (offscreen) as a through-deck carrier, though. Many of those are present in Deep Space Nine's battle scenes.

True, however some folks who have done "physical analysis" of those doors are of the opinion they do not have sufficient height clearance for the fighters they are said to carry.

 

[James Wright]

Can someone tell me what is the length of a shuttlepod & shuttlecraft on the Enterprise-D, how do they have the space to accommadate phasers and the power source to fire them?
Thanks!

JDW

 

[Unicron]

The phaser banks are mounted on the tips of the nacelles, according to the TNG TM, and powered by the warp core. They're only Type IV phasers, so they're considerably less powerful than the D's main phasers.

(I think. My brain's shot after having to work on a holiday. )

 

[James Wright]

Many thanks to unicorn for helping with information on shuttlecraft mounted phasers of TNG era!
Are shuttlecraft of this era longer or shorter than 22.6 meters(74 feet)?
The length of the Russian built Su-47 Berkut!

JDW

 

[Timo]

We know the length of Type 6 from TNG pretty exactly, because it was built as a full scale prop - it's six meters long, sharp. Similarly, we know the Type 15 pod is 3.6 meters long.

In contrast, the jury is out on whether the Type 7 was larger than Type 6 or not. The TNG Tech Manual suggests a relatively compact craft, not much past the six-meter mark, but still establishes Type 7 as "medium" while Type 6 is "light". There was no full scale mockup of Type 7, nor any really accurate comparison pictures; the interior cockpit set was roughly true to the scale model exterior, but still allows us to believe in a craft up to 12 meters long if we prefer.

The longest personnel shuttle so far would be the one from ST:Insurrection, sometimes claimed to be Type 11. The design length is a bit over 16 meters. Funny, then, that the interior set is relatively cramped, and the shuttle only seems to feature a single narrow aft door - which doesn't provide access to the forward cabin!

The Argo from ST:Nemesis is a bit larger, with about 20 m design length. The older counterpart postulated in the TNG Tech Manual, the Type 9 cargo shuttle, looks like it could be some 17 meters long.

The VOY shuttles are fairly small. Type 8 is similar to Type 6, at a bit over six and a half meters, while the other type (name never specified, although Sternbach originally wanted to call it Type 12) is about 8.5 meters long.

The Danube class runabout reaches the modern fightercraft mark, at 23.1 meters. Data's ST:INS scoutcraft matches that at some 24 meters. And as said, the fightercraft from "The Maquis" could be anything from 15 to 30 meters, although I'd tend to favor the smaller size.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[James Wright]

Thanks Timo, for posting the information on shuttlecraft lengths. I'm betting that all of you know what the F-22 Raptor looks like but do any of you know what the Su-47 Berkut looks like?(Just curious!)
Thanks,


JDW

 

[Timo]

...It looks like somebody at Sukhoi is an anime fan.

Or that anime artists fell in love with X-29 back when it was hot news.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[USS KG5]

Thanks Timo, for posting the information on shuttlecraft lengths. I'm betting that all of you know what the F-22 Raptor looks like but do any of you know what the Su-47 Berkut looks like?(Just curious!)
Thanks,


JDW

It looks cool - but I'd rather have a Typhoon in my drive...

 

[jolau]

True, however some folks who have done "physical analysis" of those doors are of the opinion they do not have sufficient height clearance for the fighters they are said to carry.

What if instead of through-deck shuttlebays, they're actually launch tubes like in BSG, or if they have a catapult system like modern day carriers?

 

[James Wright]

The

 

[James Wright]

The Typhoon, why would you want that old bucket of bolts!? It's Generaton 4.5.
If there could be a swept wing fighter in Star Trek what Generation of fighter would it be?

JDW

 

[Timo]

The Next, obviously.

What if instead of through-deck shuttlebays, they're actually launch tubes like in BSG, or if they have a catapult system like modern day carriers?

Trek small craft probably wouldn't need catapults in order to accelerate quickly into action - odds are, they can do hundreds of gees all on their own, given how they can do interplanetary distances in a matter of hours or better.

However, we have never quite seen what sort of arrangements it would take to launch a complex, largish, crewed vehicle from a mothership that is at warp. We know torpedoes and probes can be launched from warping motherships, but perhaps a shuttlecraft or fightercraft would require a device akin to a torpedo launcher in order to cleanly depart a warping mothership?

The "bow tubes" of the Akira and perhaps the Steamrunner as well might well be dedicated to warp launching. In which case it would make sense that they be kept as compact as possible (the launcher would probably get the more expensive and complex, the bigger it was), which in turn would call for wing folding in the fightercraft. And there is a fairly obvious seam in the wings of the DS9 fighter, just where an upward-folding wing outer panel would also result in a flat belly that would be ideal for landings. Without the wing fold, the wingtips would hit the ground first, unless there were long landing struts which are rather atypical for TNG era craft.

If the fightercraft is assumed to be just 15 meters long, then with wing fold, it could be fired out of the Akira bow holes all right.

Then again, those "holes" look very much like the supposed navigational deflector of Archer's Enterprise, and may instead serve such a function...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Rivas_Jakarta]

I got space fighter for you:

http://www.space-2063.de/images/joergens/SAAB_SA-43_2.jpg