John Hoyt was not a large man...
Female Command Officers & the Uniform Code
- Thread starter Smellincoffee
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Dusty Ayres
Commodore
All I have to say with regards to the future of Star Trek as far as women's Starfleet uniforms is this: Let the women wear the pants.
^ Unless they want to show off those legs...
Hmmm so that's why McCoy ripped Kirk's shirt when he gave him a shot...
The Phase II guys should really go the extra mile and have a female duty uniform that Roddenberry would have had if he could: I'm thinking bikini bottoms and no tops. Just insignia pasties over the nipples.
Anybody wanna sketch that design? Is there a new Rudi Gernreich in the audience?
Oooooooooh, the temptation....
The prosecutor in Court Martial (Areel Shaw if memory serves) had a longer dress.
My view has always been that a woman shouldn't have to dress exactly like a man to command the same respect as a man. She should be afforded the same respect you'd give anyone with her rank and experience, regardless of which uniform option she chooses to wear.
As for options, in both TOS and AOS, you see women wearing a variety of uniforms--long-sleeved tunics with trousers, short sleeve tunics with trousers, and in Star Trek (2009) short-sleeved dresses, and long-sleeved dresses--which to me means it is clearly the individual's choice which option she prefers.
As for folks who wouldn't be able to respect a woman in a mini-skirt, or would only wish to see a young fit attractive woman in a mini-skirt uniform... all I have to say is, you're welcome to join the rest of us in the 21st century whenever you like. We're waiting for you.
As for options, in both TOS and AOS, you see women wearing a variety of uniforms--long-sleeved tunics with trousers, short sleeve tunics with trousers, and in Star Trek (2009) short-sleeved dresses, and long-sleeved dresses--which to me means it is clearly the individual's choice which option she prefers.
As for folks who wouldn't be able to respect a woman in a mini-skirt, or would only wish to see a young fit attractive woman in a mini-skirt uniform... all I have to say is, you're welcome to join the rest of us in the 21st century whenever you like. We're waiting for you.
Flipping that around, though, there was a women's baseball league during World War II. This female baseball competition was the basis for the 1992 Geena Davis / Madonna / Rosie O'Donnell vehicle "A League of Their Own".
Clearly on display during the movie were the players' uniforms which were chosen by men of that era. The uniform included a medium-length skirt. Critics looked back on that era an pointed to the uniforms as obviously sexist, making the women wearing them look silly and clumsy because the skirts were encumbering.
While this isn't the same thing as what Tara is talking about, the question in the back of my mind for years has consistently been What if Uhura or the other female crew members suddenly found themselves in an emergency situation and they had to put on a spacesuit or similar gear? You wouldn't want a skirt (mini or not) getting in the way, would you?
Clearly on display during the movie were the players' uniforms which were chosen by men of that era. The uniform included a medium-length skirt. Critics looked back on that era an pointed to the uniforms as obviously sexist, making the women wearing them look silly and clumsy because the skirts were encumbering.
While this isn't the same thing as what Tara is talking about, the question in the back of my mind for years has consistently been What if Uhura or the other female crew members suddenly found themselves in an emergency situation and they had to put on a spacesuit or similar gear? You wouldn't want a skirt (mini or not) getting in the way, would you?
I think one would be hard pressed to find a situation where that barely-there skirt would be in the way of anything.
Well, now you're just being rational!
Seriously, who's to say what will be considered unprofessional in 300 years? Our two most recent secretaries of state would wear business suits consisting of knee-langth skirts, while 100 years ago it was obscene for a woman to show her ankles.
Seriously, who's to say what will be considered unprofessional in 300 years? Our two most recent secretaries of state would wear business suits consisting of knee-langth skirts, while 100 years ago it was obscene for a woman to show her ankles.
Waitresses at Hooters wear bright orange hot pants, not mini-skirts.
And from personal knowledge, some don't even wear any panties.
I'm well-aware of that.
I've eaten at Hooters before. Good food and the husband likes the eye candy (my comment "They're young enough to be your daughters." His comment: "But they're not!" 
)It was a bit of a crude comparison admittedly. A better one would be a restaurant that were down here in the early 1980s, where the women wore a traditional double-knit top, but no slacks, just white rhumba panties. It honest to God looked like they forgot to put on their slacks.
It was all I could do not to walk out. I was with a work group, including my boss, so I was trapped. I can deal with a little sex appeal (some cleavage, a mini-skirt for a women) but I draw the line at bras and panties, even matching panties, being out on display.
Besides rhumba panties back then were marketed for babies and toddlers, so having the women seemingly infant-ized frankly made me see red.
Anyhow, there is a time and a place for sex appeal and the original series fucked up with the uniforms. Bill Theiss made many beautiful sexy outfits which I found to be quite nice (as a woman) but they were for specific instances.
If your skirt is so short that you need matching panties and you're over the age of 4, you need a longer skirt. Mini, yes. Micro-mini, no. I realize any hot-blooded straight males (and a few females) will disagree with me. But anytime those panties showed, it yanked me right out of whatever story was being told.
Real-world Hollywood reasons aside, I always saw the female uniforms in TOS as being a reflection of its particular society--and yes, it's a different society from ours, even if there are many similarities. As a result, there are bound to be instances where what we consider inappropriate attire isn't to them.
But in a way, though, it's probably no different from judging the fashions and customs of any current-day society that's different from ours with a different standard of modesty, IMO...
But in a way, though, it's probably no different from judging the fashions and customs of any current-day society that's different from ours with a different standard of modesty, IMO...
Dusty Ayres
Commodore
Oh, I could see somebody losing their dignity when their clothing is torn in a fight, suffering a cut-open leg after running and sliding (exactly what happened during the filming of A League Of Their Own) and a whole other kind of calamities. At least the Next Generation/Deep Space Nine/Voyager/Enterprise uniforms looked, and were, practical compared to what was seen in TOS and Star Trek 2009 for women. So, for me it isn't being in the way as much as losing something that will show them naked.
I don't have a problem with women in skirts, being a straight guy and all. However, realistically speaking, the skirts in Trek were too short. Did I need to see Uhura's bloomers all the time? In a professional office, for example, the dress code would prohibit the showing of ass cheek. However, an inch above the knee is fine, and since that has a habit if riding up a great deal with a woman sits and crosses her legs, it's sufficient. I'm sure most professional women wouldn't mind not flashing their crotches everytime they sat down.
Obviously, the costumes reflect the times and Roddenberry's preferences, and pulp sci-fi always stresses the sexy chicks. My own preferences, however, tell me that a woman can also be "sexy" in a longer skirt while still retaining her professional demeanor. Usually, if a woman wants to be taken seriously in the "male dominated" world of whatever, she doesn't dress like a space hooker. However, she would need to retain her feminity. A nice professional skirt does wonders. As a male pig, I always loved having a boss who was able to command respect while still showing her gams. Hell, I did whatever she wanted without any argument.
Sadly, the post-TOS shows were almost allergic to showing leg. Such a shame since so many of the acresses had great legs.
Obviously, the costumes reflect the times and Roddenberry's preferences, and pulp sci-fi always stresses the sexy chicks. My own preferences, however, tell me that a woman can also be "sexy" in a longer skirt while still retaining her professional demeanor. Usually, if a woman wants to be taken seriously in the "male dominated" world of whatever, she doesn't dress like a space hooker. However, she would need to retain her feminity. A nice professional skirt does wonders. As a male pig, I always loved having a boss who was able to command respect while still showing her gams. Hell, I did whatever she wanted without any argument.
Sadly, the post-TOS shows were almost allergic to showing leg. Such a shame since so many of the acresses had great legs.
