Federation Credits

[johnnybear]

When Kirk spoke of people still using money, maybe he meant the physical kind? Perhaps in the future and we all know it's coming whether we like it or not, they will have a type of credit system where you either have a card or an arm for the infused material? I know we've had cards for decades now but I'm saying it will be that and nothing else, no paper money!
JB

 

[Longinus]

This we're in agreement on, at least as far as the Federation internally, but there are still moments where I believe a nominal external currency is necessary for dealing with societies that are not so enlightened, eg during negotiations for the Barzan wormhole, and therefore that Federation Credits needs to have some kind of value on a galactic exchange or whatever for that money to actually mean anything. No-one here is suggesting the 1701-D crew are doing it for the Benjamins.

Yep, I agree. I said earlier: 'My theory is that their main purpose is to facilitate interaction with primitive money based economies. They're not used internally in the Federation. Then people from those cultures can exchange them for Federation goods.'

 

[Tenacity]

They're not used internally in the Federation.

Sorry, but while on holiday on the planet Risa, Picard bought a small "I wants have sex" statue.

Unless you want to restart the whole is Risa a part of the Federation debate.

Maurice was a wealthy vineyard owner from an aristocratic family

Wait a minute, how could the Picard clan be "wealthy" if there is no money?

 

[Longinus]

Sorry, but while on holiday on the planet Risa, Picard bought a small "I wants have sex" statue.

Figure of speech perhaps? People still say 'roll up a car window' or hang up the phone' even though with modern devices no literal rolling or hanging up is happening. Perhaps the process of acquiring an item is still referred as 'buying' even though no exchange of money happens. Or the merchant was a foreign national. Or some rare greedy people want to acquire latinum in order to use it for nefarious purchases of Ferengi origin. Or there is play currency to use on casinos of Risa.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Like this for example:

JAKE: I sold my first book today.
QUARK: Really? How much did you get for it?
JAKE: It's just a figure of speech. The Federation News Service is going to publish a book of my stories about life on the station under Dominion rule.
QUARK: And they're not paying you?
JAKE: No.
QUARK: Well then, you have my sympathies and the first round of drinks is on the house.
JAKE: Really?
QUARK: No. It's a figure of speech.

So we would have to believe that major organizations or (businesses?) like the Fed news services don't pay their reporters even if they go on dangerous assignments

If I didn't know better, I'd think the writers were intentionally making fun of the use money/no money thing.

 

[Sci]

Simple explanation: Currency exists electronically but not in cash but most people don't have or want it, in the same way that most people don't have or want to own a helicopter in real life today; that currency facilitates trade in unnecessary luxuries that most folks aren't looking for; a strong welfare state provides for the necessities of a healthy life at what we today consider middle-class levels of comfort, because those goods exist in such a state of abundance that market competition isn't necessary to acquire them anymore; most people don't feel the need to earn money in market competition; there's a floor and a ceiling on how much and how little wealth you can have; and they have democratic market socialism rather than capitalism.

Reconciles everything.

 

[suarezguy]

Trek has always been really bi-polar about the money thing. True, the main takeaway is that the way Trek presented it, it makes no sense whatsoever. Either one minute everyone uses money regularly, the next minute there is absolutely no money use at all.

I think, post-original series, most of the usage of money by humans seems to be for commerce with aliens, it's understandable and even inferred that when they say there is no money they mean among humans.

Jake Sisko: "I'm Human, I don't have any money.

Though that statement seems absolute and wasn't really challenged it could well be Jake being self-serving, he could have money, some humans do, but very few do. He does seem pretty jerky for defending his system being without currency but still craving Nog's and having no decent response to Nog's "if you don't need money you sure don't need mine."

 

[Tenacity]

Figure of speech perhaps?

Ahh, so when someone says there's no money that referrs solely to the use of pretty shells for monetary purposes. But otherwise money by another name is still in regular use.

 

[Shawnster]

Shells are toiletries.

 

[Nightdiamond]

I think, post-original series, most of the usage of money by humans seems to be for commerce with aliens, it's understandable and even inferred that when they say there is no money they mean among humans.

Though that statement seems absolute and wasn't really challenged it could well be Jake being self-serving, he could have money, some humans do, but very few do. He does seem pretty jerky for defending his system being without currency but still craving Nog's and having no decent response to Nog's "if you don't need money you sure don't need mine."

Maybe, and maybe it's limited only to off world commerce.

But...isn't it a little weird to see an adult at a bar, with a job, who just sold a book--- and wants to get a drink there but cant, because his culture doesn't believe in money?

 

[Longinus]

Ahh, so when someone says there's no money that referrs solely to the use of pretty shells for monetary purposes. But otherwise money by another name is still in regular use.

If you want to be intentionally obtuse. We just had quote here about how Jake didn't get paid in money even though he 'sold' his writing. The intent is clear.

 

[Atet]

I always thought Picard meant "money doesn't exist in the 24th Century"- referred to Earth? Of course there is money "credits" in the galaxy; mentioned in The Trouble with Tribbbles.

 

[Tenacity]

I always thought Picard meant "money doesn't exist in the 24th Century"- referred to Earth?

Picard said in First Contact:
You see, money doesn't exist in the twenty-fourth century.

Followed shortly by:
We work to better ourselves ...and the rest of humanity.

The first statement can't be all inclusive, because some people do in fact have and use money in the 24th century. It obviously does exist.

So who is Jean-Luc specifically referring to?

Picard: " ... humanity."

Might Picard be using the term humanity in some kind of generic fashion to refer to all the species within the Federation, doesn't seem like something our uber-PC captain would do.

Could it (no money) be exclusive to humanity, with the other species of the Federation not participating? From Janeway's lamp story Vulcan commerce uses money. Risa uses money. Qualor Two uses money.

When speaking to Lily, why didn't Picard say: " ...and the rest of the Federation." Lily already knew about the Federation from Picard.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Picard said in First Contact:
You see, money doesn't exist in the twenty-fourth century.

Followed shortly by:
We work to better ourselves ...and the rest of humanity.

The first statement can't be all inclusive, because some people do in fact have and use money in the 24th century. It obviously does exist.

So who is Jean-Luc specifically referring to?

Picard: " ... humanity."

Might Picard be using the term humanity in some kind of generic fashion to refer to all the species within the Federation, doesn't seem like something our uber-PC captain would do.

Could it (no money) be exclusive to humanity, with the other species of the Federation not participating? From Janeway's lamp story Vulcan commerce uses money. Risa uses money. Qualor Two uses money.

When speaking to Lily, why didn't Picard say: " ...and the rest of the Federation." Lily already knew about the Federation from Picard.

And Picard is probably speaking of the specific subset of "good humans" (i.e. noble Starfleet officers like himself, who apparently don't get paid, and perhaps the average citizen of Earth and affiliated colonies, who live in an ultra-welfare state). He wasn't counting the likes of Harry Mudd or the Maquis or even perhaps the Izarian colonists who trade in paper currency or the Gaullians who use rubles.

Kirk said we don't use money in the 23rd century. Picard said that for the 24th. They are obviously not speaking universally. Jake seemed to imply it was universal for all humans (or maybe United Earth citizens?).

This is a Gordian knot. There is no answer. Discovery or Reliant or Destiny can air an 80-minute episode with a dissertation on how the UE economy works, and we'll all throw up our hands and describe how it fundamentally conflicts with seven other episodes.

 

[suarezguy]

Picard said in First Contact:
You see, money doesn't exist in the twenty-fourth century.

Followed shortly by:
We work to better ourselves ...and the rest of humanity.

Both preceded by seeming to refer to Starfleet, Lily asking how much did the Starfleet ship cost and Picard replying money wasn't involved in it or at all but the at all probably still centered around Starfleet.

 

[1001001]

 

[Tenacity]

Kirk said we don't use money in the 23rd century.

In TVH.

And then there's money possession, buying, selling, offers to buy in TSFS (McCoy), TUC (Scotty), GEN (Kirk), and TTWT (Uhura).