Federation Credits

[Tim Thomason]

That was TV Picard. Movie Picard chucked it aside like a bag of garbage.

My personal belief is that it's just a replicated plaster mold, and the original relic was dropped off at a reputable (and much safer) museum in the intervening two years. Most of the stuff Picard "owns" are actually just replicas meant to invoke meaning, not the real thing.

It would be pretty reckless to hold onto a millions-year-old artifact on a ship that is constantly in danger and shakes and stirs every week.

 

[Tenacity]

No, he literally tosses it away in Generations when Picard and Riker are digging through the ready room wreckage. Consult 1:50 to 2:20 of this video:

The video shows Picard placing the statue on the deck softly (which is what I said), where is this "tosses" that you're referring to?

The show says there's no money, therefore there is no money

And the show says there is money and has people talking about making purchases and selling things, therefore there is money.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Negotiating with foreign worlds becomes we are willing to trade: Rationing Points for use of the wormhole. You can select anything our member worlds have to offer in exchange for the Federation Credits.

This doesn't apply everywhere.

Quark, for example, doesn't accept Federation credits in his bar.

 

[Tim Thomason]

The video shows Picard placing the statue on the deck softly (which is what I said), where is this "tosses" that you're referring to?

C'mon, really? He tosses a chair with wild abandonment, then takes the top half of the naiskos, barely acknowledges it, and with one hand places it very roughly down before ignoring it completely. It's not tossing it across the room (like the chair), but it's most certainly not setting it down gently or softly either, as you claim.

Everyone I have ever seen (accept for you) has acknowledged Picard's treatment of the naiskos as a mistake that doesn't meld well with The Chase. It's easily explainable through other means (it was a replica) without resorting to distortions or exaggerations of what happens.

Starfleet is a military, the Federation has money, and Picard didn't seem to care about the most fragile relic he owned.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I have to admit, it is less of a chuck than I remembered in my head.

 

[Tenacity]

Quark, for example, doesn't accept Federation credits in his bar.

hmmm, but with Harry Kim Quark offered to take payment in cash or credit. Credit might not have meant Federation credits, but Harry was shipping out" with the morning tide, so Quark would want Harry'a money up front.

Maybe Quark saw the error of his earlier ways?

 

[1001001]

hmmm, but with Harry Kim Quark offered to take payment in cash or credit. Credit might not have meant Federation credits, but Harry was shipping out" with the morning tide, so Quark would want Harry'a money up front.

 

[fireproof78]

The show says there's no money, therefore there is no money, regardless of our own personal beliefs about whether a moneyless society is possible. It's TV. Deal.

Suspension of disbelief only goes so far.

 

[Infern0]

There has to be money of some sort in the Federation because they deal a lot with other cultures who do use currency, and we have seen main characters make purchases. Some of them own property etc.

I tend to think it's more a case of there is no poverty in the federation. You need food, accommodation, medicine, transportation etc, all free.

But I think if someone high up in starfleet needs dat Latium then they are getting access to it.

 

[Tenacity]

You need food, accommodation, medicine, transportation etc, all free

Nahh, I don't think society is going to let you starve to death "in the streets." But likely you do have to get off your butt and support yourself and your family in the course of a normal everyday life in the Federation.

 

[Jedi Marso]

In First Contact, Picard tells Lily that 'the economics of the future are a little different' or words to that effect.

Personally, I'm just going to have to take his word for it because the economics of Trek have never made much sense to me. On the one hand, you have virtually limitless energy available in the form of fusion power and anti-matter reactors, with replicators that are essentially 'magic' 3D printers that can recreate just about anything. So, food? Readily available. Shelter? Replicate all the apartment buildings you want. Medical care? Given the state of technology in Trek, some form of 'socialized' medical care is probably possible and economically feasible- what form it actually takes remains a mystery.

On the other hand, you have stuff like the Ferengi, Quarks, non-Federation worlds, and oh yeah: property rights. The Picard family owns land and a vineyard in France. Sisko's dad owns a swanky restaurant in New Orleans. So what if Rocket Raccoon shows up and wants the Picard vineyard more than ol' Robert? I mean what if he really wants it? How does he obtain it? Does Sisko's dad serve up all that fine Creole food (hand made- not replicated!) for free? Where and how does he get his ingredients? So on that level, there needs to be some form of currency or means of exchange. Some form of dual-layer economy would seem to be the answer, but nobody has really ever bothered to tackle this deal in Trek- at least not anywhere I've seen or read.

 

[Infern0]

Nahh, I don't think society is going to let you starve to death "in the streets." But likely you do have to get off your butt and support yourself and your family in the course of a normal everyday life in the Federation.

If we take a country like the uk for a current example and their benefits system, I don't agree with how I'd percieve life in the federation.

But I also don't think people on benefits are lazy in the current era, I think it's mostly a mental health issue.

 

[Tenacity]

In First Contact, Picard tells Lily that 'the economics of the future are a little different' or words to that effect.

While Picard seem to have a admiration for Cockrane (whose true motivations Picard wouldn't approve of), in general Picard holds a disdain for people from his past. He probably thought the woman who actually constructed the first (Human) warp ship was too stupid to understand.

On the other hand, you have stuff like the Ferengi, Quarks, non-Federation worlds

And of course on Federation worlds too. Kirk said there wasn't money in the future, but that didn't mean that there isn't buying, selling, and private property right on Earth.

There's no money ... except McCoy had money.

But I also don't think people on benefits are lazy

All? I would agree no, however if someone is capable of work and is on benefits owing to simply not wanting to work and they enjoy being on benefits, then I would label them "lazy."

 

[suarezguy]

The show says there's no money, therefore there is no money, regardless of our own personal beliefs about whether a moneyless society is possible.

I think the main references were Kirk in TVH, Picard in FC and Jake in "In the Cards". Kirk's comment can easily really mean that they just don't have (what money is usually understood and meant to be) paper currency anymore and Picard's is also pretty ambiguous, it could just mean that there's very little or no private sector (ships aren't thought of as costing things when the government controls the resources).

Jake's seems the most direct, no currency or money for humans to use ... maybe that suggests Federation credits can't be used for individual consumer goods/luxury items, including baseball cards, as opposed to standard necessities.

 

[Timo]

Or children are not allowed money, firearms or social media access.

As for Kirk, perhaps he was broke? His entire band of mutineers probably had their assets frozen at the time (or what counts as "at the time" for time travelers).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I don't see what anyone's personal financial situation has to do with anything. Kirk could be the richest man in the Federation and it wouldn't do anyone any good in 20th century San Francisco. The Federation doesn't use US dollars.

The question asked of him is actually obviously ridiculous. Which, I would argue is the biggest reason why his answer as formulated truly indicates that the future doesn't use money. If it was just a case of them using a different 'kind' of money, he would've said 'of course we do, but I don't think this restaurant accepts Federation Credits'.

 

[Timo]

The question asked of him is actually obviously ridiculous. Which, I would argue is the biggest reason why his answer as formulated truly indicates that the future doesn't use money. If it was just a case of them using a different 'kind' of money, he would've said 'of course we do, but I don't think this restaurant accepts Federation Credits'.

...But if he's additionally penniless in the future, the line gives double the fun for the price.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The question asked of him is actually obviously ridiculous. Which, I would argue is the biggest reason why his answer as formulated truly indicates that the future doesn't use money. If it was just a case of them using a different 'kind' of money, he would've said 'of course we do, but I don't think this restaurant accepts Federation Credits'.

That's easy enough: Federation Credits are all-electronic. No physical currency, like bills or coins. It's all automatic. That's what Trek means when it says they don't use money...they really mean no CASH.

 

[Timo]

Or then lunches are free, and the idea of paying for food is as absurd to Kirk as paying for air, sleep or the right to vote.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Grendelsbayne]

That's easy enough: Federation Credits are all-electronic. No physical currency, like bills or coins. It's all automatic. That's what Trek means when it says they don't use money...they really mean no CASH.

Again, if that's all it meant, then why didn't he say that? He could easily have said 'all our money is digital/controlled by computers/etc', or even just simply 'we haven't used physical money/cash since x'.

The intent of the line is pretty clear. The Federation doesn't use money.

Yeah, other stories directly contradict that (and still more others confirm it), but that doesn't make this example any less clear. Just like the warp speed scale between TOS and VOY, the canon simply contradicts itself, so there is no 'right' answer. Just whatever answer you prefer to believe.