Fear the Walking Dead Season 2 discussion and spoilers.

[TREK_GOD_1]

The people that went to the beach all engaged in classic dumb (only happens in TV) behaviour. The slow moving zombies are coming; let's back away at a similar pace until we're cornered.

...especially when they had every opportunity to outrun the walkers as they were at the top of the ridge. Have you ever seen any of the WD characters from season one act in this way?

I've got as gun so I'll shoot randomly from a distance.

Yeah--Daniel thinks he's got the edge on everyone, but uses a pistol for distance shooting moving targets?

Oh look... a hole with a crab-happy zombie. I'll stand on the edge and watch for a bit because, you know... post apocalyptic entertainment is hard to come by.

Someone will make an excuse for standing on a sandy mound overlooking a pit with a walker in it. Just wait for it.

Strand is on the ocean in a yacht that can only handle so many people without everyone suffering. Those are vastly different scenarios.

Of course they are vastly different, but some have a very hard time understanding that, and act as if Strand's ship is the freaking Queen Mary.

Honestly, why would anyone listen to Travis' group? Their list of credits includes Daniel the torturing-barber opening a stadium full of walkers to not only attack soldiers, but would flood back toward the neighborhood where there were other survivors left. Who would trust Travis' group? They cannot accuse Strand of being sel-interested, since the torture of a soldier and releasing an stadium full of walkers was all to serve their own interests.

And if I remember correctly, back in between Rick's group having the prison and Alexandria, they turned away more than they welcomed in (unless they were forced to). Even Hershel was more like Strand than Rick on his farm, due to the limited space and resources.

Well observed.

TWD:

• Season two: Hershel initially wanted to help Carl, then argued several times for Rick's group to leave.
• Season three: Rick flatly refused to accept Tyreese's group.
• Season three: Rick refused to rescue the backpack man on the road, which guaranteed the man's death.
• Season six: Rick argued with Daryl about not even looking for others to bring in. He only changed his mind after disaster struck the ASZ, and Carl was shot.

So, we see this behavior is nothing new, yet for whatever reason, Strand is painted as the villain for protecting his resources and safety, and not wanting to listen to this questionable group.

 

[sojourner]

Scroll, scroll, scroll...

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Troll, troll, troll....

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Droll, droll, droll...

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Troll, troll troll...

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Saying that exchange was amusing with a rhyme constitutes trolling to you? My, aren't you a delicate flower. And here I thought you were the world's foremost expert on the zombie apocalypse, you know, having lived through it personally. But no one so fragile could have possibly survived.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Just found out the actor who plays Chris, Lorenzo James Henrie, was one of the Vulcan bullies in Star Trek 09.

 

[Crow T. Robot]

Well judging by that first meal of theirs, they apparently have more than enough to spare for the occasional survivor that comes along. And let's not forget the two capable fishermen on board.

And I'm pretty sure I remember times when Rick's group was just barely scraping by, but they would still at least make an attempt to help people in need. The times when they would just coldly turn people away (such as when Rick was in one of his darker moods) feels more like the exception than the rule.

Obviously I understand there are limitations and it's smart to be suspicious of any new strangers that come along, but I don't think that means not even giving people a chance. And given the huge zombie threat out there, I think I'd want as many friends and capable fighters by my side as possible.

Most of them do give people a chance, to a degree.

Strand, and to a lesser degree Salazar, are just realists and, most likely, they both have dark/criminal backgrounds which makes trusting people an iffy proposition at best. Honestly, I'm pretty sure I'd have a mindset similar to Strand's if I were caught in the apocalypse. Unless someone had a proven skillset that would benefit me and mine (or some other need; such as building a workforce or cannon fodder against a known threat), I'd very likely turn them away, too. Especially if all I had at the moment was a yacht with plenty of food, water, and fuel for me and mine. Why risk it for some strangers you don't know, especially in an environment in which it's becoming more and more clear that many people are of a similar mindset to you?

The social contract is gone. You either fend for yourself and your interests, or you most likely wind up a victim of those who do.

 

[Neroon]

Scroll, scroll, scroll...

Troll, troll, troll....

Droll, droll, droll...

1.) Posting rhymes of a previous post are not necessarily trolling, but after a time they can become annoying, so please cease from such comments or it might just be considered trolling. As would be repeated notifications in this thread
2.) The best way to avoid said warnings, would be to return to posting on topic.
3.) If the zombie apocalypse does come... I'm tripping all three of you

As always, comments to PM if you please.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I am glad Alex is joining...but the way the episode left her, how does she get into the group?

Either Madison, Travis, and Daniel take over the boat and turn it around to help her (although that would require people who were saved to dare to assert themselves and not just be unquestioning cogs in Strand's cult of personality, which is apparently not allowed), or since Alex overheard them talking about Mexico, she might catch up to them there. Which is why it was stupid to just cut her loose if you're worried about being followed, because now she's pissed and has a legitimate grudge.

He's very suspicious ... a fully stocked boat, untouched by anyone during the initial outbreak??? I mean NO crew waiting for him, or maintaining the boat? Not even a security guard?

Unless Strand was the "security guard" (not literally, but more likely head of security) for the real Slim Shady who actually owns the yacht:

- Who has fortified Mexican mansions stocked up for a potential siege?
- Who owns multiple mansions and giant mega-yachts that people are afraid to touch even in the apocalypse?
- Who has associates who know about the black market and might get detained by authorities despite not being infected?
- Who has associates that know intimately the survival instincts of drug addicts and how people will act when they're at their worst?

I think Strand might be the head of security for one of the Mexican cartels, and his boss may or may not still be alive down in Mexico. Or the boss(es) are dead and it's Strand and a fellow minion communicating with each other.

Even Hershel was more like Strand than Rick on his farm, due to the limited space and resources.

Wasn't that more of a philosophical issue than a resources issue, though (not that the resource issue was unimportant)? Herschel was still deluded at that point and didn't like Rick's group's violent tendencies and the fact that they killed zombies instead of collecting them in the hopes of a cure being found.

Someone will make an excuse for standing on a sandy mound overlooking a pit with a walker in it. Just wait for it.

Of course they are vastly different, but some have a very hard time understanding that, and act as if Strand's ship is the freaking Queen Mary.

If you ever wonder why you keep allegedly getting "trolled" by people (though your apparent lack of understanding of what the word "droll" means or your humorless reaction does not make its use to comment on you and someone else amusingly arguing "trolling," it makes it a rhyming joke), it might be because of the way you dominate threads, the utter contempt for other people's opinions that drips from your every post (like above), and the strawman arguments you use to misrepresent what others are saying. Perhaps you'd have fewer problems if you cut back on that a bit, mmkay?

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Of course they are vastly different, but some have a very hard time understanding that, and act as if Strand's ship is the freaking Queen Mary.

Honestly, why would anyone listen to Travis' group? Their list of credits includes Daniel the torturing-barber opening a stadium full of walkers to not only attack soldiers, but would flood back toward the neighborhood where there were other survivors left. Who would trust Travis' group? They cannot accuse Strand of being sel-interested, since the torture of a soldier and releasing an stadium full of walkers was all to serve their own interests.

Because they're the only people Strand has available. Seriously, you're so obsessed with all the things Travis' group has done wrong (and how that apparently justifies Strand to do anything he wants), but stop for a second and think about the actual position here. Strand is one person, with seemingly few skills outside of hurting and manipulating people. Travis fixes the entire boat by himself while Strand sits around making threats. The kids pay attention to the world and come up with good plans to go gain more supplies while Strand sits in the cabin ignoring the world and obsessing about his secrets.

There may be some dead weight in Travis's group, but Strand's way of dealing with the ZA is every bit as stupid as the others'. He NEEDS a group for his own survival. He needs help keeping watch. He needs help fighting. He most definitely seems to need help keeping 'his' boat in working order, since he proved utterly incapable of doing a damn thing to help fix it this episode.

He may have disagreements with this group, but if he expects to reach mexico at all, there is a limit to the amount of times he can actively antagonize them by playing lord protector and acting like they should all be his eternally grateful minions for having been allowed on his ship (as if he could ever have sailed, maintained and defended the ship by himself in the first place). He is not the only person who matters and he doesn't get to unilaterally set the rules for everyone, even if it is his boat (which it almost certainly isn't, given how much he lies).

 

[hux]

Flight 462 didn't tell me much. She's aware of the virus, what happens and how you kill them but that could mean anything.

Secret government scientist.

Only person in this universe who's seen a zombie film.

She'll be back though I guess otherwise what was the point of all that (unless she and the kid were just competition winners and their prize was a cameo in FTWD).

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Because they're the only people Strand has available. Seriously, you're so obsessed with all the things Travis' group has done wrong (and how that apparently justifies Strand to do anything he wants), but stop for a second and think about the actual position here. Strand is one person, with seemingly few skills outside of hurting and manipulating people. Travis fixes the entire boat by himself while Strand sits around making threats. The kids pay attention to the world and come up with good plans to go gain more supplies while Strand sits in the cabin ignoring the world and obsessing about his secrets.

Let's go back to how this all unfolded. Strand was going to escape the army compound whether Travis' group arrived or not (he was not relying on them)--which means he had been prepared to escape to his house, and then to the boat. That Nick was in his cell was coincidence, so let's not pretend Strand was some incompetent user who would have died if not for Travis and company.

Moreover, when someone offers you shelter in a Los Angeles that was falling to the walking dead, then offer you passage on his boat, what part of wisdom and common sense is missing for:

• Daniel breaks into his private possessions. In the real world, people have been shot for less, but even if it does not go to violence, its such an incredibly disrespectful violation. If Strand found out, how in the world can Daniel justify that?
  
• Madison to threaten to throw Strand overboard for some wholly imagined threat to her kids? Really? At that point, what made her think he would not just grab her and do the same, or (since he's armed) force them to "walk the plank?" Do you think there's any common sense in threatening the owner/captain of the boat who is responsible for you being alive? Where were they going to go if not for Strand? They would have been trying to get through an overrun city that was soon to be bombed. End of their story.

There may be some dead weight in Travis's group, but Strand's way of dealing with the ZA is every bit as stupid as the others'. He NEEDS a group for his own survival. He needs help keeping watch. He needs help fighting. He most definitely seems to need help keeping 'his' boat in working order, since he proved utterly incapable of doing a damn thing to help fix it this episode.

Remember, he was headed to his boat anyway. If he escaped alone, he would have made every move in the same way we see now, and probably would not have stopped at suicide island, or plane wreck beach.

He may have disagreements with this group, but if he expects to reach mexico at all, there is a limit to the amount of times he can actively antagonize them by playing lord protector and acting like they should all be his eternally grateful minions for having been allowed on his ship (as if he could ever have sailed, maintained and defended the ship by himself in the first place). He is not the only person who matters and he doesn't get to unilaterally set the rules for everyone, even if it is his boat (which it almost certainly isn't, given how much he lies).

You say that about him, but again, where is the common sense in a passenger threatening the life of the captain? Where can that go?

 

[davejames]

Most of them do give people a chance, to a degree.

Strand, and to a lesser degree Salazar, are just realists and, most likely, they both have dark/criminal backgrounds which makes trusting people an iffy proposition at best. Honestly, I'm pretty sure I'd have a mindset similar to Strand's if I were caught in the apocalypse. Unless someone had a proven skillset that would benefit me and mine (or some other need; such as building a workforce or cannon fodder against a known threat), I'd very likely turn them away, too. Especially if all I had at the moment was a yacht with plenty of food, water, and fuel for me and mine. Why risk it for some strangers you don't know, especially in an environment in which it's becoming more and more clear that many people are of a similar mindset to you?

The social contract is gone. You either fend for yourself and your interests, or you most likely wind up a victim of those who do.

I guess I just have a bit more faith in humanity than that. Obviously in any disaster situation there will be those who will want to steal and take advantage of others, but I think we see from the aftermath of most disasters or terrorist attacks today that the vast majority of people are good and decent and eager to provide help and assistance to their fellow man.

No matter how desperate or hungry people might be, I just don't think their first instinct is to want to kill the first person they see who has something they want (as we see, for instance, in the flood of Syrian refugees, who aren't pillaging the countryside but are simply looking for some help and a better life).

And certainly at this early stage of the ZA, I wouldn't expect everyone I encounter to be a bloodthirsty killer ready to steal everything I have.

 

[Crow T. Robot]

And certainly at this early stage of the ZA, I wouldn't expect everyone I encounter to be a bloodthirsty killer ready to steal everything I have.

I dunno. When the military turns on you, you learn how widespread the disaster is, and you find out that there's at least one pirate out on the open seas attacking and destroying other ships (as opposed to just stealing from them)... I think you'd have to be a fool to welcome everyone you come across with open arms.

There's no hope in sight. There's no indication that the apocalypse is coming to an end anytime soon. You don't know of any safe harbor (with Strand's sounding too good to be true, which we know it will be). You have limited supplies, limited space, and no one to call on if things turn South. What choice do you really have other than to protect you and yours? Say you did invite a stranger to join you. What do you do if they turn out to steal everything you have? Call the authorities? Cut your losses and head to the nearest Piggly Wiggly to restock? Nope, none of those are options. You'll either have to get really lucky and find an untouched location, or you're going to have to do what they did and rob someone else blind.

 

[HIjol]

Ok, please. Be kind! I have never Posted here, before, but I took the CNN test regarding "...which character you were most associated with..." and, based on my results, I am most associated with Sasha.

Is that a good thing?

 

[davejames]

I dunno. When the military turns on you, you learn how widespread the disaster is, and you find out that there's at least one pirate out on the open seas attacking and destroying other ships (as opposed to just stealing from them)... I think you'd have to be a fool to welcome everyone you come across with open arms.

There's no hope in sight. There's no indication that the apocalypse is coming to an end anytime soon. You don't know of any safe harbor (with Strand's sounding too good to be true, which we know it will be). You have limited supplies, limited space, and no one to call on if things turn South. What choice do you really have other than to protect you and yours? Say you did invite a stranger to join you. What do you do if they turn out to steal everything you have? Call the authorities? Cut your losses and head to the nearest Piggly Wiggly to restock? Nope, none of those are options. You'll either have to get really lucky and find an untouched location, or you're going to have to do what they did and rob someone else blind.

Well I didn't say welcome everyone. But it should certainly be okay to make exceptions now and then, like for someone like Alex who was only trying to care for her friend and wasn't any more of a threat than anybody else already on the boat.

 

[hux]

I'm trying to work out the timeline. The plane went down when Nick was searching for drugs in the compound. But that was a week or so before the events of episode three.

What was she doing for a week? Why isn't the kid dead already?

Confoosed.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Daniel breaks into his private possessions. In the real world, people have been shot for less, but even if it does not go to violence, its such an incredibly disrespectful violation. If Strand found out, how in the world can Daniel justify that?

The juxtaposition between your unconditional support of Strand's "screw 'em all, I got mine" attitude toward helping anyone else, and your profound offense at the sanctity of a footlocker being violated in a life and death situation where they're totally dependent on the goodwill of a mysterious and sketchy guy who was in detainment is hilarious.

So, just to sum up: Leaving people to die when you could help them; perfectly fine. Minor property damage and forced entry into a locker in order to gain intel that may save your life; the gravest of violations and possibly worthy of being murdered.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

The juxtaposition between your unconditional support of Strand's "screw 'em all, I got mine" attitude toward helping anyone else, and your profound offense at the sanctity of a footlocker being violated in a life and death situation where they're totally dependent on the goodwill of a mysterious and sketchy guy who was in detainment is hilarious.

You're the winner of the 2016 Missing the Point award.

The bug you seen to have up your ass about Strand completely ignores facts:

• The Travis group would be dead if not for the plan Strand already had in place (house / boat). From the moment they boarded its been constant ungrateful, hostile behavior, when they conveniently forget that if they remained in L.A., they would be dead from the bombings, or walkers.
  
• So, Madison and Travis trust and accept Daniel--a man who tortures--yet they are acting like Strand is this series version of the Governor. See an extremely warped sense of morality & judgement from those two?
  
• Constantly arguing with and now threatening the person responsible for their lives not ending in L.A. is the height of ungrateful, asshole behavior, and only keeps conflict center stage, when the focus should be on escape and survival.

So far, the series paints a clear picture of who is trying to survive, and who is interested in creating conflict.