Fear the Walking Dead Season 1 discussion and spoilers.

[TREK_GOD_1]

Tactically, abandoning any people, or killing people who refused to come along, just doesn't make sense. But this show doesn't try to make sense.

No, it does not.

No, I don't cheer for him. The writers of this show have made a mistake in making every single character unlikable to downright contemptible. I realize that's sort of a takeaway from a lot of modern TV dramas, but it's a mistake.

On target: modern TV producers/writers seem to think being "real" translates as everyone being free of a true moral guide (or having it ripped to the point of not mattering much *cough*Rick Grimes*cough*), and Director of Interrogation Salazar fits that modern TV leaning.

Military thinking - deprive the enemy (the zombie horde) of potential weapons(live humans).

Except that kind of thinking would only lead to killing every living person, probably including the military. It seems like this specific directive only has to do with the high populated areas getting out of control, hence why there would be a retreat to somewhere else. I'm just not sure where that is, and I'm guessing we're not really going to see that anyways. I just don't understand why they don't bother to bring some of the people from the safe zones with them to wherever they're going.

It could be a number of reasons:

1. Lowering the risk of anarchy. We already see the anger directed at the military.

2. In a crisis situation with no known end-date, clamping down on food and medical resources (beyond the makeshift hospital) would be of great concern.

The cliche, evil military stuff is boring. It makes what the Governor did to that military group make him look like a good guy. It even makes sense. They're almost treated as if they aren't even people, just walking cliches. Fear the walking cliches.

Quoted for truth---but then again, that has been a running cliche in TV for decades. Most of the evil people will ever encounter rests firmly among the general population day after day, but there is a clear bias with some in entertainment to paint the military (or any armed authority) as evil, with few to no contrasts.

At least the original Dawn of the Dead balanced this with illustrating the difference between the rogue National Guard killer and one half of the protagonists in the form of Peter and Roger, but in FTWD, its the same old, same old.

As you so accurately observed, Fear the Walking Cliches.

 

[Corran Horn]

If there isn't some sort of military breakdown it doesn't make sense that society would fall, in my opinion. The zombies have nothing on their side besides numbers in TWD, and in FtWD the numbers aren't that high. Something has to happen to tip the scales.

 

[crookeddy]

The military's behavior in the episode isn't even consistent... It looks like they should all know that they will be killing everyone inside by tomorrow, but they still seem concerned with civil unrest and such. Or was the cobalt directive given while soldier-boy was being tortured?

 

[davejames]

Another pretty strong episode, I thought. The characters may still not be anything special, but as usual the show's ominous tone and sense of dread does a lot to make up for that, and so far I'm liking the general direction of the story.

Although like others here, I do think we need a better explanation or justification for why the military has suddenly become so corrupt and untrustworthy. I could understand if this was three or four months into the outbreak maybe, after most of the country had already gone to shit and the command structure was mostly gone. But after only a couple weeks?? I'm just having a hard time imagining how things could devolve that quick.

 

[Admiral2]

So...the order of the series is "The more assholes the merrier."

Salazar's been turning into someone likeable, so let's turn him into a war criminal asshole!

And let's go to the cage and have Slick Brother Man start out an asshole!

And of course, everybody in uniform is automatically an asshole, right?

Ooh! Ooh! And let's make Protest Boy and Tattoo girl semi-incestuous step-assholes!

And of course, let's make Dr. Gummint a coldly practical asshole.

Yeah...TREKGOD has gotten some flak in this thread because he see's the writers trying to make Druggie Boy the hero, but look, in this one episode they've managed to demonize all but four people: Ophelia, Travis, Madison and Nick - and Ophelia's sleeping with an enemy asshole, Travis is going to suicide himself hesitating the way he does, and Madison has become just short of useless. But Slick Brother Man just saved druggie's life for no apparent reason.

I'm with TG. If you keep demonizing and degrading all the potentially useful people but prop up the loser, there's gotta be an agenda behind it.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

We see it right there on the screen that the soldiers are severely demoralized. From the guy that tells Travis his bruises are from a "momentary lack of patriotism" to the guy who drops Travis off telling him he's on a new mission to go San Diego (or wherever he said). Soldiers are deserting left and right. Coupled with the fact they are "kids" as the lieutenant says, they're not equipped to deal with training guns on the American people, let alone head-shotting the same American people being reanimated after death. Some are cut and running before the cobalt order is given and they have to start mowing down people for no reason.

I've liked these past two episodes because I always wonder what went awry in Atlanta to cause the military to go apeshit, and we're seeing it firsthand here.

 

[davejames]

So...the order of the series is "The more assholes the merrier."

Well most of the characters on the original show have been assholes at one time or another, so at least they're being consistent. Although personally I've never had a need for people to be likable on the shows I watch, and don't see how these ones are really being "degraded or demonized" all that much.

And in real life people can be frustrating and selfish and make bad decisions and react poorly to things all the time (and that's even without a zombie apocalypse and the looming threat of death behind every corner). Personally I'd much rather watch those kinds of characters than the charming and happy go lucky types on most other shows these days (your NCIS's and Bones, etc).

 

[Admiral2]

So...the order of the series is "The more assholes the merrier."

Well most of the characters on the original show have been assholes at one time or another, so at least they're being consistent. Although personally I've never had a need for people to be likable on the shows I watch, and don't see how these ones are really being "degraded or demonized" all that much.

And in real life people can be frustrating and selfish and make bad decisions and react poorly to things all the time (and that's even without a zombie apocalypse and the looming threat of death behind every corner). Personally I'd much rather watch those kinds of characters than the charming and happy go lucky types on most other shows these days (your NCIS's and Bones, etc).

I would argue that even assholes have to have a certain amount of likeability so that you can put up with them on a weekly basis. House, MD managed to last years on TV without the main character ever being anything but an asshole.

I find that none of these characters are as tolerable as Gregory House. His assholery is at least interesting. These characters' assholery just comes across as venal and stupid. You have to have a counterbalance somewhere, and there is none on this show, and the writers are treating the ZA as if there's no need for one.

 

[Trekker4747]

It's also possible the military brass is gone, struggling or not easily contacted. The President (Commander in Chief), the Joint Chiefs, any standing generals, etc. could all either be dead or taken off on their own. Pretty much leaving all of these units out there operating without any solid, cohesive, national plan on what to do so each segment is pretty much doing their own thing or someone else with far sinister motives has taken command and is making these unreasonable orders. (Negan?)

So, I'd say it's likely the military hierarchy has collapsed and each unit is pretty much making it up as they go along with, perhaps, some limited form of communication between units (hence similar procedures in LA and outside Atlanta) but, overall, no one with a solid head on their shoulders is making the best of decisions for everyone and is making it up as they go along.

I would argue that even assholes have to have a certain amount of likeability so that you can put up with them on a weekly basis. House, MD managed to last years on TV without the main character ever being anything but an asshole.

I find that none of these characters are as tolerable as Gregory House. His assholery is at least interesting. These characters' assholery just comes across as venal and stupid. You have to have a counterbalance somewhere, and there is none on this show, and the writers are treating the ZA as if there's no need for one.

Thing with House was that while he was an asshole, he was able to at least back that up by being brilliant and good and figuring out difficult cases other doctors gave up on. He was also well-written enough to be a *complex* asshole who had other layers to him other than "an asshole." He was an asshole with feelings and complexity. He was a 3-dimensional character. Right now, the characters on FTWD, and to even an extent the parent series, are 2D characters. They're stock tropes to fill a role. I like both series, though the parent series more, but these are hardly complex characters. With the possible exception of Daryl given how much of him we've seen and how much he's changed over the course of the series.

 

[Q2UnME]

Also keep in mind this is not the standing Army, this in the National Guard (aka "Weekend Warriors"). These are not battle hardened pro's. These "kids" are way out of their element and training. In this episode alone they mention lack of sleep, many desertions and poor moral; most are worried about loved ones and wanting to get back to them.

 

[davejames]

It's also possible the military brass is gone, struggling or not easily contacted. The President (Commander in Chief), the Joint Chiefs, any standing generals, etc. could all either be dead or taken off on their own. Pretty much leaving all of these units out there operating without any solid, cohesive, national plan on what to do so each segment is pretty much doing their own thing or someone else with far sinister motives has taken command and is making these unreasonable orders. (Negan?)

So, I'd say it's likely the military hierarchy has collapsed and each unit is pretty much making it up as they go along with, perhaps, some limited form of communication between units (hence similar procedures in LA and outside Atlanta) but, overall, no one with a solid head on their shoulders is making the best of decisions for everyone and is making it up as they go along.

Yeah that's kind of the impression I'm getting as well, even though, again, I have a hard time believing all that hierarchy really would have collapsed after just two weeks. And you'd certainly expect that the President and military leaders would be well-enough protected that nothing would get to them for a lot longer.

I mean if we're talking about the super fast zombies of 28 Days Later (who turned almost immediately after being bitten), then sure. But not with these really slow versions stumbling around.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

These characters' assholery just comes across as venal and stupid. You have to have a counterbalance somewhere, and there is none on this show, and the writers are treating the ZA as if there's no need for one.

Yes, that's accurate: this shows abuses the already worn out "asshole = drama (or awards)" trick. Compare this season with S1 of TWD: Shane, Merle and Ed were assholes, but Rick, Glenn, Dale, T-Dog and fence-sitting Daryl were not. A series can have drama without everyone being a Grade-A ass, or dysfunctional. So far, FTWD looks more like a standard night time soap opera that just so happened to have a horror element.

Even if the season finale has the stadium breaks and 2000 zombies pour out into the streets, the sereis is too structured around people being screwed up.

 

[hux]

Episode 5

Slightly more watchable than previous episodes but they've jumped ahead far too much for me and are clearly just giving us more of the same. A real shame because an exploration of how and why this started would have been very interesting (not to mention making it different to the parent show). I already have Walking Dead for what they're giving me here.

When they were playing dress-up in the house and the girl looked at the pictures of people on the mantle and asked "I wonder where they went?" I thought to myself...

..Yeah, that's good question sweetheart. If only there was a show that could answer those kinds questions. You know, like a prequel.

 

[davejames]

Well they can't follow every possible story or event that transpired in the early days, and no matter which group of people they follow, there's still going to be questions hanging in the air about what happened to all the other people (and personally, like on the original show, I really like that feeling of uncertainty and of being a bit in the dark about everything else going on outside our main group).

Granted, we still could have been following a more interesting group than this one, but they've still allowed us to see the initial media reaction, one of the early safe zones, the military and medical response to the outbreak, and people who are already starting to cross some moral lines. So for me it's still been more than worthwhile.

 

[Morpheus 02]

It's also possible the military brass is gone, struggling or not easily contacted. The President (Commander in Chief), the Joint Chiefs, any standing generals, etc. could all either be dead or taken off on their own. Pretty much leaving all of these units out there operating without any solid, cohesive, national plan on what to do so each segment is pretty much doing their own thing or someone else with far sinister motives has taken command and is making these unreasonable orders. (Negan?)

So, I'd say it's likely the military hierarchy has collapsed and each unit is pretty much making it up as they go along with, perhaps, some limited form of communication between units (hence similar procedures in LA and outside Atlanta) but, overall, no one with a solid head on their shoulders is making the best of decisions for everyone and is making it up as they go along.

Yeah that's kind of the impression I'm getting as well, even though, again, I have a hard time believing all that hierarchy really would have collapsed after just two weeks. And you'd certainly expect that the President and military leaders would be well-enough protected that nothing would get to them for a lot longer.

I mean if we're talking about the super fast zombies of 28 Days Later (who turned almost immediately after being bitten), then sure. But not with these really slow versions stumbling around.

Well, trying to rationalize... as opposed to "normal" crises...even if soldiers are called up to an emergency situation, their family members are in a pretty safe place. The soldiers just have to worry about surviving themselves. They aren't THAT worried about their families.

But with a Zombie Apocalypse, their family may be in as much danger as they are seeing in the field. With no guarantee of safety for their family (and with that, no threat of retribution to the family), rebleiion and desertion would skyrocket.

We'd also see a lot more situations like we saw last night, where the evil military sergent (or LT, or whatever) would be abandoned , possibly purposely, to die, so that the soldiers could attempt to claim innocence. And if the field commanders are as heartless as the one we saw, you can expect a LOT of that.

ANd it seems like many soldiers are family people to some degree, so that would REALLY impact the military response.



But

 

[hux]

Granted, we still could have been following a more interesting group than this one, but they've still allowed us to see the initial media reaction, one of the early safe zones, the military and medical response to the outbreak, and people who are already starting to cross some moral lines. So for me it's still been more than worthwhile.

What media reaction? It consisted of some unconvincing youtube footage. I can't actually recall any other TV, internet or newspaper coverage in the show. Where did the rioters go? Where did the neighbours go? Why didn't people knock and doors and shout "what the hell is going on?" No address from the president? Where did it start? Who responded first? How are they dealing with it abroad? (In France for example... the last country to fall).

Meanwhile, the medical reaction to the outbreak has been non-existent until the safe zone. The military involvement seems to have been confined to that one solitary suburb (what are the rest of the military doing/did).

In the space of four episodes, they've basically jumped right to the end and bypassed the entire apocalypse. We saw absolutely nothing.

Tell me what you're getting from this show that you haven't already been given by the WD? (other than a zombie fix during the WD off season).

 

[Ryan8bit]

I would argue that even assholes have to have a certain amount of likeability so that you can put up with them on a weekly basis. House, MD managed to last years on TV without the main character ever being anything but an asshole.

Yes. You need to have characters that at least have good moments. For however much a lot of the characters on Game of Thrones are terrible, some of them still have their redeeming qualities. What is Travis' redeeming quality so far? Madison? Nick?

I think that if you have people portraying these asshats, that you really need good actors to do it. Hugh Laurie, Bryan Cranston, and even Andrew Lincoln have done very well, although they have had decent material to work with at least. At least with good actors, there's more to latch onto (although I will say that Frank Dillane does seem like a promising actor... that must be the Mannis in his blood).

At a point where everyone is detestable and without redeeming qualities, you just have a really depressing show that's hard for a lot of people to put any interest in. Like The Leftovers.

Yeah that's kind of the impression I'm getting as well, even though, again, I have a hard time believing all that hierarchy really would have collapsed after just two weeks. And you'd certainly expect that the President and military leaders would be well-enough protected that nothing would get to them for a lot longer.

I still don't believe it's totally wiped out. I think a lot of little pockets of the military may be isolated, but I think it would be interesting if there were some sort of sizable military/government remnant out there somewhere.

Tell me what you're getting from this show that you haven't already been given by the WD? (other than a zombie fix during the WD off season).

I'm very critical of this show, but there are still things I find to enjoy. Like davejames has said, there's just a scary environment element that wasn't present in the original. It's interesting to see those facets even if they aren't that well thought out. I think this show could be a lot better and it definitely had a lot more promise, even inside of the premise that was built. There are some really good ideas presented that just aren't executed well (or are surrounded by really bad ideas).

I think if I didn't get any enjoyment out of it, that I just wouldn't watch it anymore, although I understand wanting something to be good and sticking around hoping for that. We've all been through that with certain aspects of Trek.

 

[davejames]

I certainly wouldn't put it at the same level as the original show, but I still really like seeing things more from the perspective of regular people who aren't a bunch of hardened badasses, and who have no idea how to deal with a threat like this and are struggling mightily to adapt (as I'm sure I would in their position).

And while they may not be the most likable bunch, I do find them interesting enough to keep following, and look forward to seeing how they develop over time. And of course there's still the overriding sense of dread and doom which I probably enjoy on these two shows more than the zombies themselves (and which is apparently not so easy to pull off, judging by the inept Z Nation).

 

[davejames]

What media reaction? It consisted of some unconvincing youtube footage. I can't actually recall any other TV, internet or newspaper coverage in the show. Where did the rioters go? Where did the neighbours go? Why didn't people knock and doors and shout "what the hell is going on?" No address from the president? Where did it start? Who responded first? How are they dealing with it abroad? (In France for example... the last country to fall).

Yeah I admit our characters seem to have been strangely insulated from the outside world so far, and weren't glued to the TV and internet for news early on like most of us probably would be. But the impression I get is that all this snuck up on everyone really quick, and once it became clear this was more than just a handful of stories about people being sick, everyone basically freaked out and headed straight home.

I mean if the military is distracted and having trouble staying committed, it's hard to imagine many TV reporters or station managers would want to hang around for very long at their jobs. Especially when the freakin dead are walking around everywhere.

 

[hux]

It annoys me because I really did psyche myself up for a show that was going to deal with all the pre-apocalypse stuff. Where it began, How they initially tried to deal with it, the media reaction to it, world wide press conferences discussing it, army presence to deal with it, the UN, presidential addresses etc.

I mean, one thing seems clear and that is that it started in the US because surely if it had started elsewhere in the world, there would have been US broadcast news shows looking at and discussing it prior to the first US cases. It starting in the US seems to be the only thing we can guess at based on what FTWD has given us.

Maybe I was wrong to assume that that's what this show was going to be about but I did assume and so I was hugely disappointed. Why start at the beginning if you're going to skip past the beginning? Why not just start mid-apocalypse and use flashbacks?

Why tease us with prequel ideas and then purposely not deliver?

Oh well. Let's see what the second season brings.