Fear the Walking Dead Season 1 discussion and spoilers.

[TREK_GOD_1]

Kinda have a problem with the "one or two zombie" thing. What's the population of greater LA area? multiple millions. They're now mostly zombies. There should be a metric shit-ton of them, not one or two.

Who knows...perhaps the lack of zombies is due to the episodes set in an isolated neighborhood, but if the military is successful enough to clean out all of the surrounding neighborhoods, that will force the series to eventually address how a majors city would overrun seemingly functional security.

To your "metric shit-ton" of zombies idea, well, that's why i've posted that essential death data from the 2011 Los Angeles County Department of Public Health...

In 2011, there were 57,988 deaths in LA County, and the death rate was 596 per 100,000 population.
On an average day in the county, 159 people died

If you have that many deaths per day, per 100,000 (and unless in possession of a coroner, where the brain would be removed) you would have a zombie explosion. That, and knowing how random, fresh zombies would have the benefit of blending in with the living (for a little while), there would so many cases of bites/infections that it should be out of control within the first 30 days.

That's a major plot hole to come...unless for shock value, the last 2 episodes of the season will have the leads run into some heavily zombi-fied region, or out of nowhere, a town-sized herd comes waltzing toward the Travis safe zone (especially if something removes the national guard from the areaa).

Realistically, anywhere near LA is a bad place to put a zombie show; no one is surviving that. Just going to be overwhelmed.

True. The same applies to Atlanta, which is why the season 1 survivors camping out in the hills made sense, while season five's Grady Memorial police camp did not.

 

[JD]

I enjoyed the episode.
I do agree that the whole thing with Nick this week was a pretty bad move on the writers part. Him stealing the old guy's morphine definitely makes it hard to sympathize and root for him. I think it was a mistake having Nick do all of this stuff so soon in the series. If they had wanted us to like him, then they should have given us a bit more time to grow attatched to him. I understand this is a short season, but they still could have saved him hitting rock bottom this hard for season 2.
Meredith slapping Nick was not a good thing, but I thought given everything they have been through it was understandable that she would lose it like that.
I couldn't believe they actually had her cutting through the fence, that was pretty stupid. I would think there could have been some way to get her on the other side of the fence without potentially putting the entire community at risk. Hopefully that is a set up for zombies to get through and into their safe zone. If not, I would actually be kind of annoyed that a character could actually do something that stupid without any kind of repercussions.
I was annoyed when they had Travis blowing off Chris's concern over the light in the window.
I was pretty shocked that we didn't get a single zombie this episode. I don't really like them jumping ahead to them already being in a zombie-free, military controlled safe zone. There would have still been plenty of stories to get out of seeing things just starting to fall apart more, without jumping a head of them already. I do kind of have to wonder why they even set this one before the original series, if they are just going to jump over the biggest parts of the fall of the city. I could see if this was a new, unknown show with no budget for big action scenes or zombie attacks, but as popular as the original show is they must have given them a pretty big budget.

 

[Trekker4747]

Yeah, this episode completely railroaded Nick. I don't see how he can ever be taken as a sympathetic or likable character. At least before he was "relate-able" as a young-man who at some point fell in with the wrong crowd and got hooked on drugs. And he man honestly want to get better but her doesn't have the strength either mentally or physically to do it. But he seemed somewhat sensible when it came to the zombies, er, walkers, er, "infecteds" ...

But pretty much from the get-go he's a complete douche in this episode, from him lounging on the raft in the pool lazing around like a complete jackass, the douchey way he dives into the pool from the raft when his mom is talking to him and then taking a suffering man's morphine by injecting the IV needle between his toes. I mean what are we supposed to do with this from here?

This is like if Merle after threatening the people on the department store roof with the gun, tossing around the "N-Word" and getting beat-down by Rick we were supposed to feel sorry for MERLE. Now, granted Merle got a decent redemption at the end of his arc in S3, but he was hardly established as a character at first we're supposed to like and latch onto. (Granting he was a one-off character in S1 and a dangling plot thread to be picked-up on later.)

But how are we supposed to like Nick after his behavior and actions in this episode? We can criticize Madison all we want -arguably rightfully- for smacking the shit out of him (but, he's not a child, but an adult so it's hardly any kind of abuse and just a confrontation between two adults who happen to be first-relatives.) I cheered her on when she did it because the little douchebag deserved it.

She's seemingly been very, very supportive of him through everything and had real concern for him while trying to find him at the start of the series, she risked her career (she didn't know the world was ending) when she stole the drugs to help wean him and then he pretty much spits in her face, says he doesn't need her more than he needs his drugs and then he acts like a douchey jackass towards her as she continues to try and help him (the dose poolside) and he goes back on the drug in one of the sickest and most vile way he could.

Fuck him. I want a walker to tear into his pasty flesh by the season's end and for everyone to shrug and say, "Good riddance."

 

[sojourner]

He's not likeable, but he's interesting to watch. Which, in the end, is the goal of the writers.

 

[hux]

Exactly, he's the only potentially interesting thing in this very disappointing show. Secondly, the parent show has established that self-serving people with a ruthless streak have a tendency to survive while the idiots are being eaten by people they tried to help.

Since this show is a carbon copy of the WD - with nothing original to contribute - it stands to reason that characters will fill the same predictable roles. Good guy who learns to be ruthless leader, mumsy woman who becomes badass, jackass who causes problems for everyone but has a knack for surviving, the dull wise person who warns about the dangers of losing touch with our humanity etc.

Hopefully the druggie will become this shows version of Daryl.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Things that make SO much sense in Episode 5:

Kidnapping and torturing a member of the guard. Yeah, that's going to play out so well. Even if the guard joins the stars, yeah, that's the Dirty Not-Quite-A-Dozen in the making.

Cage man: scheming...but what realistic chance does he have to escape?

Addict: what "skills" can he contribute to this plan?

Salazar: so he discovers the stadium filled with zombies. I guess he will find out his wife died, so he (or one of the other Howling Commandos) will release an army of zombies (and of course, have a master escape plan to avoid being victims of their own insurrection), which will send the survivors heading for the hills...only I can also imagine some (like Camera Lad and No-purpose Teen Daughter) finding themselves left behind, captured, or threatened with becoming zombie food in the season finale.

 

[Trekker4747]

That episode was a lot more like it, felt grizzly and can certainly see that everything collapsed pretty much by the military being overwhelmed and soldiers pissing off.

Interested in the black-guy in the holding area, let's hope he lives longer than Alicia's boyfriend, or Principal Obama, or Jackie, T-Dog, or the black-prisoner, or Noah, or...

Some gruesome stuff with Mr. Salvador and the Soldier McDreamy. Not much with Meredith this week, also interesting to see our characters finding out so soon that one turns regardless of the method of death. I guess on the one hand it prevents them (and us) having to learn it (again) but it brings the question up of how so many in TWD:TOS assumed that only bites caused people to turn and not just any death.

Still don't give a piss about Nick.

Is Alicia going to hook-up with her would-be step-brother? And the show seems to be going out of its way to *not* show us her self-inflicted tattoo of her boyfriend's rose doodle on her arm.

Travis still seems to be struggling to figure this all out, interesting look at the "run' with the soldiers, though.

So, Soldier McDreamy said they were going to evac and get rid of the residents of the community "humanely." But we see the locked up building (in this gated-off neighborhood?) with the walkers in it, is the real plan to set the walkers loose, cut out, and let happen, happen?

Not entirely clear on why Neighbor McGrizzly was detained and, apparently, killed. Was he exhibiting symptoms? And the doctors seem to know a bit more about what's going on, certainly they know people don't just turn but need to die first? Unless an assumption I made earlier that there's an initial outbreak of the "zombie virus" that some people just couldn't cope with and "got the flu" then died and turned. Some people's immune systems dealt with the "zombie virus" and kept it under control, which it can no longer do when the body dies allowing the reanimation. So these people are being held because they're exhibiting the "flu-like symptoms" or tested with a higher white-blood cell count (suggesting their bodies are fighting something and they may have the "zombie virus" and aren't coping with it and will soon succumb to the symptoms and turn.)

I don't care how dumb the character is, I like Alicia for pure eye-candy alone. Liked the scene of her and Son "playing rich" and then trashing the house.

But this episode was a good pick-up from last week and, really, probably closer to what last week's episode should have been though, obviously, with some explanation about what happened in the time-jump. Last week it felt like almost nothing happened until the end, here we actually got some substance. The ending was no "the doors of the CDC open, bathing or "all hope is lost" characters in light" but it does have me looking to see what happens next.

Okay, I take back what I said about Salazar being our "Dale" in being our reasonable man of the consciousness for the group and only will survive as much as everyone else does. He clearly has a much higher "Survival Index" than I originally though. I don't think walkers are too vulnerable to torture but he cerainly has a dark enough side to him to make it in this new world.

Still, fuck-off Nick.

And why is he still wearing the old-man clothes?!

 

[sojourner]

I get the feeling that Travis as a character has never even been hunting in his life.

 

[Trekker4747]

I get the feeling that Travis as a character has never even been hunting in his life.

Hardly impossible, probably plenty of people in the modern world haven't been. (How much have we learned about his past/childhood?) If he's mostly spent his life in a (sub)urban environment it's possible he's never gone hunting. Hell, *I've* never gone hunting. But, if I did go, I wouldn't have a problem killing an animal. (So long as it wasn't for sport, but for harvesting meat. I've had venison jerky, good stuff!)

But it seemed like too much of a repeat from last week and the week before of him clearly not realizing what's going on around him and not yet grasping that the people who've turned are dead. Hell, Rick accepted that in one evening on the word of Morgan. (Allowing for the fact that the first walker he saw was half a torso and utterly rotted to oblivion (the park bicyclist walker.)

The first walker Travis saw was Nick's drug-dealer buddy who clearly had a mortal stab wound to his chest and survived being hit by a truck twice. You'd think Travis would have some grasp that the walkers are dead. Hell, when looking through the scope of the rifle you'd think he'd see the "deadness" in the eyes of the waitress walker. Get with-it Travis! Even S2 Herschel is shaking his head at you! Maybe he needs a similar wake-up call with someone firing critical injuries into a walker's torso without it reacting?

 

[sojourner]

Travis is just going to have a very hard time making that first kill. Even viewing the vicitm as "dead" already, he's just been so ingrained with "killing is wrong" as part of his moral center. Now, once he does get that first kill out of the way, I think he'll transition pretty well to the necessity of it.

 

[crookeddy]

So why is the military evacuating and killing civilians? Who is giving this order? What purpose does the military have other than saving civilians in this scenario?

Also, are we supposed to be cheering for the former war criminal as someone who knows what needs to be done or some crap like that?

 

[Ryan8bit]

So why is the military evacuating and killing civilians? Who is giving this order? What purpose does the military have other than saving civilians in this scenario?

I don't think they're evacuating to kill them. They were probably given orders to remove people who were at risk of dying, but are now realizing that they can't handle the load given the lack of staff. I think they honestly want to help, but are finding it too difficult.

This is probably the reason for the Cobalt directive, for when things are deemed out of control. What I don't understand about that is where they are retreating to, and why they would need to kill the people at the college.

Tactically, abandoning any people, or killing people who refused to come along, just doesn't make sense. But this show doesn't try to make sense.

Also, are we supposed to be cheering for the former war criminal as someone who knows what needs to be done or some crap like that?

"He's our you."

No, I don't cheer for him. The writers of this show have made a mistake in making every single character unlikable to downright contemptible. I realize that's sort of a takeaway from a lot of modern TV dramas, but it's a mistake.

 

[sojourner]

Operation cobalt as described by the soldier was for the military to evacuate and to kill the civilians in the safe zones.

I can only surmise that the reasoning behind that is to minimize the eventual creation of new zombies as the civilians get over run at some point in the future.

Military thinking - deprive the enemy (the zombie horde) of potential weapons(live humans).

I also don't think the military has any plans to use the zombies in the arena. I think Salazar was just confirming what soldier boy told him (namely that they had locked up civilians to their fate) by checking out the arena.

 

[crookeddy]

Also, are we supposed to be cheering for the former war criminal as someone who knows what needs to be done or some crap like that?

"He's our you."

No, I don't cheer for him. The writers of this show have made a mistake in making every single character unlikable to downright contemptible. I realize that's sort of a takeaway from a lot of modern TV dramas, but it's a mistake.[/QUOTE]

I think the dad is supposed to be the likable "good" character, but he's more of a naive guy who really isn't very likable either.

 

[Ryan8bit]

Military thinking - deprive the enemy (the zombie horde) of potential weapons(live humans).

Except that kind of thinking would only lead to killing every living person, probably including the military. It seems like this specific directive only has to do with the high populated areas getting out of control, hence why there would be a retreat to somewhere else. I'm just not sure where that is, and I'm guessing we're not really going to see that anyways. I just don't understand why they don't bother to bring some of the people from the safe zones with them to wherever they're going.

The cliche, evil military stuff is boring. It makes what the Governor did to that military group make him look like a good guy. It even makes sense. They're almost treated as if they aren't even people, just walking cliches. Fear the walking cliches.

 

[kitik]

Great episode.

A year from now, I think I might be able to look back on them and say I liked the first season of FTWD better than the first season of TWD.

Alicia and Chris playing house was a great scene. From both a storytelling and character building standpoint, and from a fun-to-watch standpoint.

We already knew that Daniel was capable of dark things, but we didn't realize that he was actually the villain down in El Salvador. The deathbed confession from Griselda was certainly not something I expected to hear (read).

Old Spice/Satan/The Closer is one of the most amazing people we've ever seen on a horror show like this one. Shouldn't he be on Mad Men or Suits or something? Usually we just get some sleazy car dealer/lawyer/whatever type of cliche, but this guy was the real deal. Incredible how he got rid of his useless cellmate. I wonder what he did to get locked up anyways.

 

[Guy Gardener]

A year ago I was warned that Lexa from the 100 was taking a gig here.

It took me 5 episodes and a ball gown to wonder "Who is that?"

Bloody Australians. They should invent a spray or something.

 

[Borgminister]

Lame torture scene--either go all in, or forget about it. Jarring seeing that brutality buildup end up in a calm confessional. Did fast forward a bit to be honest. May check out the finale, but can't wait for TWD.

 

[Trekker4747]

I also don't think the military has any plans to use the zombies in the arena. I think Salazar was just confirming what soldier boy told him (namely that they had locked up civilians to their fate) by checking out the arena.

Yeah, as I think about it more I agree, and take-back what I said.

It actually seems similar to what we see happening in Rick's hometown in the flash-back of Shane trying to save Rick. We see the military going through the hospital killing people, Shane saying they were killing the living and dead, and the walkers behind the "Don't Dead, Open Inside" doors.

Seems like the military was overwhelmed and just decided to take out as many walkers and people -potential walkers- as possible and hope for the best.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Interested in the black-guy in the holding area, let's hope he lives longer than Alicia's boyfriend, or Principal Obama, or Jackie, T-Dog, or the black-prisoner, or Noah, or...

Yeah. He should grow eyes in the back of his head, and try really hard to be Morgan 2.0.

Some gruesome stuff with Mr. Salvador and the Soldier McDreamy. Not much with Meredith this week, also interesting to see our characters finding out so soon that one turns regardless of the method of death. I guess on the one hand it prevents them (and us) having to learn it (again) but it brings the question up of how so many in TWD:TOS assumed that only bites caused people to turn and not just any death.

...although Travis still has a problem killing zombies. Even if he knew the donut shop employee while alive, he's still hesitating,

Still don't give a piss about Nick.

Same here, but you just know Cage Man will come up with some master plot that centers on Nick's er...life experience to turn the addict into the "Breakout hero of the series."

Yeah.

Is Alicia going to hook-up with her would-be step-brother? And the show seems to be going out of its way to *not* show us her self-inflicted tattoo of her boyfriend's rose doodle on her arm.

I caught that too. How much time passed since the start of the series? Its a short period, so that makes her would-be Juliet longing for her boyfriend seem like a passing thought. That guy's effect on Alicia was as short-lived as the actor's time on the show.

Maybe Alicia and Camera Lad will add more dysfunction to the series by having her become the new Lori, with a baby on the way. Family dinners will never be the same.

So, Soldier McDreamy said they were going to evac and get rid of the residents of the community "humanely." But we see the locked up building (in this gated-off neighborhood?) with the walkers in it, is the real plan to set the walkers loose, cut out, and let happen, happen?

I have the suspicion that one of the survivors will open the stadium, and be the cause of a quick retreat / group break up at the end of the episode.

Not entirely clear on why Neighbor McGrizzly was detained and, apparently, killed. Was he exhibiting symptoms?

His health standing was never established, but in a critical survival situation, being a blubbering loon opens the door to too many random disasters unfolding.

And the doctors seem to know a bit more about what's going on, certainly they know people don't just turn but need to die first? Unless an assumption I made earlier that there's an initial outbreak of the "zombie virus" that some people just couldn't cope with and "got the flu" then died and turned. Some people's immune systems dealt with the "zombie virus" and kept it under control, which it can no longer do when the body dies allowing the reanimation. So these people are being held because they're exhibiting the "flu-like symptoms" or tested with a higher white-blood cell count (suggesting their bodies are fighting something and they may have the "zombie virus" and aren't coping with it and will soon succumb to the symptoms and turn.)

That lines up with what we witnessed in the parent series: Jenner admitted everyone has the virus, but we see some have an immune system that will endure disease as normal, so they just do not just drop dead. In TWD season 2, T-Dog was running a high fever triggered by his wound infection, but the existing zombie virus did not overwhelm his system. The same could be said of TWD season 3 Andrea, who was seriously ill, but was able to recover (I'm not sure Merle's "damn near dead" assessment was accurate).

In the case of the Heroin addict, he's running a high fever, and as a result of his neverending drug abuse, his immune system is compromised to degrees no normal person would share, so he would be a top candidate to eventually be overwhelmed by the zombie virus. He should not be as able to deal with disease like (for example) Travis or Alicia.

I don't care how dumb the character is, I like Alicia for pure eye-candy alone. Liked the scene of her and Son "playing rich" and then trashing the house.

Will you like her as much if she starts season two walking around "with child?"

Okay, I take back what I said about Salazar being our "Dale" in being our reasonable man of the consciousness for the group and only will survive as much as everyone else does. He clearly has a much higher "Survival Index" than I originally though. I don't think walkers are too vulnerable to torture but he cerainly has a dark enough side to him to make it in this new world.

So, he's no moral authority. He keeps referring tp things he had to do in the past--about survival, but that does not justify losing humanity. He's in Governor territory, instead of that occupied by Dale or Glenn. I guess this is Kirkman trying to take the spin-off deeper into "hero with moral ambiguity" territory that runs through so many TV series.

Still, fuck-off Nick.

X1000.

And why is he still wearing the old-man clothes?!

Having him looking like he's always pulling up his sagging pants like a hustler leaving the local alley is supposed to sell his "rough, street / junkie" look. Its cartoon-ish, as junkies come in all kind of physical / clothing appearances, so the hard-sell is not necessary.