FBI Director and CIA hold the same view that Russia hacked the 2016 elections

I just read both those articles. They confirmed the existence of the memo from Brennan stating he met with Clapper and Comey, etc.. They do not independently confirm Clapper and Comey actually said what the memo alleges they said.

 

I'm casually watching from across the pond and even I know this is untrue.

The FBI did not say they weren't ready to confirm it was the Russians, neither the FBI or the CIA have been in doubt about that, they said they weren't prepared to confirm that the motive behind it was to get Trump elected. This is a huge distinction, since your statement implies they were unsure that there was Russian interference, which is categorically untrue.

 

Yeah this is a term of phrase that causes problems. Many Trump supporters assume they mean that they hacked into the voting machines and (rightly) point out that most are not even connected to the internet so hacking is impossible. But they then believe that this means that any assertions that Russia interfered are wrong. Voters may have been influenced by selective releasing of DNC emails while keeping RNC ones under wraps (well, until a point where the US may not play ball in the future) but it's almost 100% certain there were no wholesale additional votes from a few hundred thousand "John Smiths".

 

22 min in


4 min 40 sec in

 

Trump vs a Dalek

 

That's quite a pair of videos you've posted. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you didn't know that the Pepe the Frog character has been hijacked and is now used primarily as a white supremacist symbol. It's curiously in the thumbnail of the second video but not anywhere in the video itself, almost as if it's signalling white supremacists to come watch this video, because it's a safe space for their views. But of course, the guy in the video has that covered by posting another video called "Everyone I don't like is a white supremacist," which tells me he hears this kind of criticism so much that he felt the need to make a video to rebut it.

And lo and behold, I guess the neo-Nazis find him agreeable but not quite intense and widely targeted enough in his hate. So more like the Diet Coke of reactionary white vloggers, or would that more appropriately be Pepsi Clear?

Maybe next time instead of just posting videos from a dubious source you can just present your own views instead?

 

Which was incredibly stupid as I don't remember political discussion being stiffled after the previous election. If seeing a different reaction or point of view upsets some people that much then they should stay away from message boards.

 

It's okay if the Mods do it.

 

Do what, exactly?

— Not the last election, but when I first became a mod in May, 2009, political and controversial discussion was banned completely from Miscellaneous by T'Bonz and was only allowed in TNZ, where open flaming is permitted. It had been that way since after the 2008 election and the inauguration, so exactly the same kind of thing (being closed because of heated election discussion), but with a Democratic President. My first request after becoming a mod was to have it reinstated so people could have an alternate venue to discuss politics and controversial issues besides TNZ, in case they didn't want to get flamed without consequence. And if you don't believe me, all you have to do is check the first several posts of the pinned thread at the top of this forum for proof of what I'm saying. Miscellaneous had also been closed to political discussion back sometime before 2006 after TNZ was broken off into its own no-holds-barred forum at that time, though that was before I became a mod, so I'm not sure on the details. But if you're looking for some kind of left wing conspiracy, that dog don't hunt. Political discussion got temporarily shut down under Democratic and Republican Presidencies after elections, because the elections get heated. Period.

— I have never had a problem with political discussion here, or with debating anyone, and have done so with abundant evidence backing my POV in this very thread, so who are you referring to when you imply that the mod(s) can't handle debating anyone or hearing alternate viewpoints?

— T'Bonz, the admin of the forum, who is a pretty strong conservative, was the one who asked for political discussion to be temporarily closed down in Miscellaneous again after the recent election, not me. Nor did I request it, since as mentioned above, I have always been in favor of having political discussion here again for the people who don't want to venture into the free-flaming area of TNZ. So again, who are you referring to? She didn't do it out of any desire to not hear alternative viewpoints either, she did it because it was generating a lot of heated discussion and notifications (from conservatives and liberals alike) and she felt it was better for the overall board atmosphere to reduce that until things calmed down a bit.

— Which by the way, I pointed out the above fact in the final post of the nearly 3,000 post political thread started by an unabashed Trump supporter that I managed not to "stifle" (and only did so under orders) last year until after the subject of the thread, who's going to win the election in November, was already passed. Also not stifled, Ichab's own political thread. If I'm stifling conservative thought, I'm sure taking my sweet time getting around to it.

— Most of the political threads I closed down (and there weren't that many to begin with) in mid-November to mid-December when political/controversial discussion was on temporary hiatus were actually left-leaning threads started by Dryson complaining about Trump. And even then, they were closed as much for being completely incoherent Dryson threads as for being politically related. I must be anti-liberal. I think there was MAYBE one conservative-leaning thread that I closed, if that. I don't recall.

— This kind of discussion where you litigate moderator actions outside of MA and unconnected to any specific warning is precisely the kind of crap that T'Bonz hates and is more likely to get political and controversial discussion in Miscellaneous shut down again, not less likely. T'Bonz doesn't like having to deal with drama, especially when it's completely baseless drama like this. I even said not to pull this kind of stuff in my final post in the election thread. There's a reason mods say "Comments to PM" after giving out warnings, and then when that can't be resolved say to send it to Moderator Actions. You're not supposed to be causing drama in the threads, especially ones where there were no actual problems up till now.

— 9gs, it's especially annoying to find you in here throwing out baseless accusations since your posts in the election thread were a major part of the problem that got it closed down in the first place. They lacked any kind of constructive content, mostly being short drive-bys and insults of other posters. They didn't discuss the topic at hand, and when they did often featured ridiculous conspiracies (Clinton is a murderer, for instance, was one of your gems). Instead of insinuating that I did something, why don't you improve your own posting habits and stop threadshitting (something which is not limited to political threads with you). If you want someone to blame, blame yourself.

Now, do either of you have anything meaningful and constructive to add about the actual topic of this discussion, because last I checked, this isn't MA, the temporary moratorium on political discussion is over, the one-month hiatus wasn't started by a liberal to stifle conservatives, and no one got warned and no thread was closed in this case, so what the hell are you complaining about anyway?

 

I love it when LoB gets me hard like that.

 

Agreed.

I will say that it sad that it took hacking in the political realm for people to start caring because China has been hacking us for YEARS and no one seemed to care.

 

I find that odd because it looks like people just turn a blind eye about China and its antics, apart from their more obvious antics like the South China Seas stuff. They have been hacking the USA for years, and many other countries.

 

China is a faulty analogy. Their hacking is mostly industrial espionage, with a decent amount of traditional espionage/counterespionage thrown in. They're after state and corporate secrets, not mundane political baggage.

They do not publish their findings. They attack just about everyone. They do *not* as common practice or strategy pick sides in an election. At least until now. With a proof of concept in the wild, we'll see how 2018 and 2020 look, say nothing of elections in east Asia.

Then again, they might still stay clear of this. The Chinese people are not as cynical or beaten down like the Russians. The Princelings don't want their laundry aired for fear of unrest. As such, they may let this tactic go.

Moreover, they don't need this. Putin was/is desperate to kill sanctions and legitimize his Crimean land grab. An accommodating POTUS is essential to this. China plays a longer game, and can afford to go toe to toe with America.

Which is why China's response to the election was pouring $360 billion into clean energy development, with the hope of shutting a backsliding America (more focused on doomed attempts to bring back coal and fighting the truth of fundamental physics) out of the market

 

His possible debt to Russia and is blatant refusal to show his tax returns should disqualify him alone. And now he arrogantly claims he knows more than the intelligence agencies. I think they should just release the classified reports, so we know how fucked up it is.

It's even more disturbing that Russia pretty much used propaganda to help get Trump elected. There should be an even bigger outcry, and even Trump voters should be disturbed. Because that means they might have altered the e-mails that are on Wikileaks even. Hard to tell, since it isn't untrue that Hillary is a very dishonest person. It's hard to tell with her what is true and what is false.

And if I understand how the government works, he gets to appoint his own directors once he takes office, so they'd better do it soon, because I suspect Trump will definitely appoint members in key positions to any military or intelligence organization so they are friendly to him, not us. After that, any information from those agencies that could alter perception of Trump to a negative fashion will be heavily controlled. At least, that's what I'd do if I were a narcissistic asshole who wanted to enrich and empower myself using the presidency (or worse).

Honestly, the more that I find out, the more that I think the country would be better off if someone just blew his brains out (or stunned him into a coma for his term so he was unable to rape and pillage the country). Never thought I'd say that about the President. But better him than possibly the country, eh? That, or I could just steal a starship, and travel lightyears away from here.

In case you can't tell, I wouldn't even have confidence in Trump as a babysitter, let alone the POTUS, and I think the next 4 years are going to be frustrating, and there is no guarantee Trump will even keep us safe. Sorry if I came off as...snappy.

Needless to say, I hope the more reasonable Trump voters (if there are any here) are right about him. Then again, if wishes were horses...

 

I understand that there are a lot of concerns regarding Trump's presidency, and I share them, but let's please not resort to wishing for or contemplating his assassination. I disagree with the man on just about everything, but I don't want to see him be killed or removed from office through illegal means. That's morally and ethically wrong and not good for the already divisive and damaged political health of the country.

 

Not to mention that President Mike Pence is not really a less scary option.

 

Mike Pence makes Paul Ryan look good, real good.

Moving along...

As nothing (yet has) happened to Russia, for such a piss poor amateur hour fiddle-diddle on the US Democratic process this year, 150 other countries are going to turn the next US election into a video game that they are playing against each other.

That is if any clever countries with the balls to play such a game, can see a clear tactical or financial advantage in forcing one US Party to win more so than the other.

 

They're all pretty terrible in their own way.

Trump is a nightmare because of his ignorance, pettiness, and unpredictability.
Pence is a nightmare because of his regressive social policies.
Ryan is a nightmare because of his heartless economic and regulatory policies.

Pence and Ryan share each other's negative qualities to different degrees as well. It's quite an unholy trinity they've got there. While their policies may be more damaging to women and the LGBTQ community, and to the poor and middle class, Pence and Ryan are less of a Sword of Damocles hanging over the nation (and the world) than Trump is with his unpredictability, pettiness, and ignorance, which is a deadly combination. I can't even point to a specific thing that's going to be the thing that sets Trump off to the point of endangering the country, because Trump is a literal crazy person and seemingly everything sets him off.

Not to get on an unfortunate assassination theme again (and he ultimately wasn't assassinated in the film) but Trump is seriously like Martin Sheen's Senator eventually running for President in The Dead Zone.

 

If Trump is a dummy, and I'm not saying that he is, but what if his Supreme court Nominee backfires on him? I can imagine that all his "friends" (peers/cronies/equals) staying for the gravy, hate and despise the man behind his back...

But once you're in, you're in: No take backs.

If Trump pushes through a Justice who wants to destroy Trump more so than support conservative ideals, this could change the next four years completely.

It's more likely that the Republican party (to which Donald is supposedly the head) that is some how autonomous without him, because I doubt Trump attends any of the secret meetings they don't tell him about.

Will Trump nominate a Republican stooge that isn't his wo/man?

Will the Republican Congress allow in a Trump stooge that they do not approve of?

Is there a compromise that they both can get behind?

...

I just had a giggle.

That barely noticeable US law wich forbids nepotistic hiring in the US Government.

Does the position of First Lady count?

If Melania or Ivanka are made First lady by Trump, which is seemingly an illegal act, it will trigger his impeachment, since you know, Donny married one and made the other. It's really then just a question about the statute of limitations for this Law, since almost every president has been this same kind of criminal, so it would probably effect where a few of them are allowed to be buried, and their corpses will have to be moved.

 

I cannot believe how thin skinned this guy is that he got upset over what Meryl Streep says. Trumplethinskin indeed.