Favorite Enterprise and why?

[BillJ]

President Jaresh-Inyo seems to think Starfleet is the military...

(Paris, with Le Tour Eiffel visible through the window.)
LEYTON: Mister President, I'd like to introduce Captain Sisko.
JARESH-INYO: Captain. I've seen your record. Most exemplary.
SISKO: Thank you, sir.
LEYTON: Captain Sisko has several suggestions on how to combat Dominion infiltration. I think you'll find them very interesting.
JARESH-INYO: (reads the PADD) Hmm. I understand the need for increased security, but blood screenings? Phaser sweeps?
SISKO: They've proven very effective on Deep Space Nine.
JARESH-INYO: I'm sure they have. But I hope you'll keep in mind that this is Earth, and not a military installation.

Why would someone from a scientific and exploration organization be made head of Earth security?

SISKO: We contacted the Lakota and used their transporters. Mister President, as acting head of Earth Security, I must advise you to declare a State of Emergency.

When the power grid goes down on Earth, it is Starfleet personnel that are beamed into the streets. Which is normally the military's job during a state of emergency.

Why would the President of the Federation turn over complete power to a scientific and exploration organization?

JARESH-INYO: Earth is in your hands, gentlemen. Do what needs to be done.

These aren't the only examples. We also have Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home where Starfleet was coordinating emergency procedures for Earth. In Star Trek: The Motion Picture, it is Starfleet that is put in charge on investigating and taking on V'ger. The Klingons describe the Enterprise as a "Federation Battlecruiser" in Star Trek III: The Search for Spock. Starfleet is charged with rescuing hostages in Star Trek V: The Final Frontier. In Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, Kirk is sent because the thought was no one would mess with the Enterprise under his command. Quite a reputation for a scientist/explorer.

The list goes on and on of things that Starfleet does that define "military" in the modern sense of the word.

 

[The Wormhole]

And save the Kirk references. There are so many episodes where he tells alien life that the Enterprise was a scientific vessel. Was he lying???

When does Kirk refer to the Enterprise as a "science vessel." I can not think of a single time that term was used to describe the Enterprise, any Enterprise. Or Voyager. Indeed, the only ships that are referred to as science ships throughout Trek are typically Oberth class or the Nova class Equinox.

Indeed, the only time anyone from Starfleet in TOS tries to deny being military is Mr. Jaeger in The Squire of Gothos who tells Trelane "I'm a scientist, not a military man." But really I just view that as Jaeger's personal opinion.

 

[Thot Tnak]

DURKEN
I can only imagine the sort of
armaments your vessel carries,
Captain Picard.

PICARD
This vessel also carries families
and children, Chancellor. It is
not a warship. The Federation
is dedicated to the peaceful
exploration of space.

~ www.st-minutiae.com (Episode 89 First Contact)

You stand corrected and appropriately so.

You can't refute this.

I will provide Kirk, Spock, and McCoy TOS refs for scientific ship if I have to.

 

[BillJ]

DURKEN
I can only imagine the sort of
armaments your vessel carries,
Captain Picard.

PICARD
This vessel also carries families
and children, Chancellor. It is
not a warship. The Federation
is dedicated to the peaceful
exploration of space.

~ www.st-minutiae.com (Episode 89 First Contact)

This isn't in the episode (watching the Blu-ray right now). I don't know if this was in the filming script or ever filmed. But the episode itself jumps from Picard being introduced to Durken directly to showing him the bridge.

You stand corrected and appropriately so.

Even if that line was in the episode, the evidence is still that Starfleet is the military. You've grabbed a couple of one-off quotes as proof, yet ignore the actions and words that directly state that Starfleet is the military. You seem to have ignored my question about who is the Federation military if Starfleet isn't it.

 

[JesterFace]

My favourite Enterprise is... oh wait, this thread isn't about that anymore at all...

 

[The Wormhole]

I will provide Kirk, Spock, and McCoy TOS refs for scientific ship if I have to.

Please do so.

 

[Thot Tnak]

Launched in 2245, the original and illustrious starship U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701 was built in the San Francisco Yards orbiting Earth. The Constitution-class starship was previously captained by Robert April and Christopher Pike, before coming under the command of Captain James T. Kirk.

The ship arguably gained its status as the most famous space-exploration vessel in history due to its historic five-year mission from 2264-2269.

http://www.startrek.com

 

[Thot Tnak]

Same argument on Reddit with different reasons:
https://m.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/comments/2qzk2v/enterprise_warship_or_exploration_ship/

 

[Thot Tnak]

Kirk's Enterprise had 14 science labs

 

[The Wormhole]

Launched in 2245, the original and illustrious starship U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701 was built in the San Francisco Yards orbiting Earth. The Constitution-class starship was previously captained by Robert April and Christopher Pike, before coming under the command of Captain James T. Kirk.

The ship arguably gained its status as the most famous space-exploration vessel in history due to its historic five-year mission from 2264-2269.

http://www.startrek.com

I was more referring to anything from the episodes themselves.

Kirk's Enterprise had 14 science labs

And? Military bases and ships can have their own science labs. Starfleet does have a larger science division than today's militaries, but that is a result of working in space, not representative of being less military. Even in the militaristic MU, the Enterprise had just as many science labs. Even the purely military Romulan warbirds have multiple science labs.

 

[Thot Tnak]

Enterprise was originally Star-ship Class before being redesignated.
Star-ship Class indicates it is a long duration, long range, high speed, heavily armed exploration vessel.

 

[Thot Tnak]

I was more referring to anything from the episodes themselves.

And? Military bases and ships can have their own science labs. Starfleet does have a larger science division than today's militaries, but that is a result of working in space, not representative of being less military. Even in the militaristic MU, the Enterprise had just as many science labs. Even the purely military Romulan warbirds have multiple science labs.

Difference between me and you is that I provide cites from several sources. You just provide opinions based on your claims.

Cite even one ST ref that describes the Enterprise as being constructed as a pure warship. You can't.

Btw, I stayed On-topic the entire time describing the Enterprise profile and mission facts while you speculated on Starfleet military priorities which don't really seem all that relevant until the Borg threat arrived.

 

[DimesDan]

It can be both.

 

[The Wormhole]

Difference between me and you is that I provide cites from several sources.

But nothing from the actual episodes themselves, aside from a deleted scene from TNG. Also, you forgot to provide sources for your statements regarding how many science labs the ship has, or the definition of "starship."

Cite even one ST ref that describes the Enterprise as being constructed as a pure warship. You can't.

And this is the loop hole in these arguments. Although TOS does pretty much depict Starfleet the military, it never really does outright say so (the belief in the 60s was viewers would take it as read) thereby muddying things later when Starfleet is outright called non-military in TNG.

Although, worth consideration, the TNG Writer's Guide does describe the Enterprise D as "less of a battleship" than the original, and that Starfleet is meant to be depicted as less of a military than in TOS and its movies. So there's something written by Roddenberry himself stating the Enterprise of TOS is a battleship and Starfleet is a military. And even then, he doesn't outright say Starfleet of TNG isn't military, just that it's "less of one."

 

[BillJ]

Difference between me and you is that I provide cites from several sources. You just provide opinions based on your claims.

No. We're providing canon sources for our arguments. Things that actually appear on screen in the episodes.

One has to be pretty dense to think Starfleet isn't the military because none of the characters are screaming it at all times. After encountering the Borg, it is Starfleet that is developing new weapons to fight them.

 

[J.T.B.]

So in TNG "First Contact" when Picard tells Chancellor Durken ( a Malcorian) that the Enterprise was NOT a warship (verbatim), was he lying???

Maybe, as Elwood Blues said, it wasn't a lie, it was just... bullshit. It might be interesting to speculate as to why Picard might have bullshitted the Chancellor, but apparently it wasn't even in the episode.

Cite even one ST ref that describes the Enterprise as being constructed as a pure warship. You can't.

Well earlier it was "not a warship" and now it's a "pure warship." But as has been show earlier in the thread, the types of missions and roles that Enterprise filled have historically been carried out by warships, so there's no reason to assume they couldn't be again.

And weren't there supposed to be some quotes form Kirk about Enterprise being a scientific ship?

 

[wayoung]

Or, and bear with me here, this is pretty crazy, it has no real world equivalent and can't be easily categorized into 20th/21st military or non-military columns because it's a fictional organization in a fictional future whose purpose changed with the needs of the particular writer of s particular episode / movie

 

[BillJ]

Or, and bear with me here, this is pretty crazy, it has no real world equivalent and can't be easily categorized into 20th/21st military or non-military columns because it's a fictional organization in a fictional future whose purpose changed with the needs of the particular writer of s particular episode / movie

I don't know? The US military defends the US, carries out humanitarian missions and scientific studies. Sounds a bit like Starfleet, which makes sense since that is what Roddenberry based it on.

 

[urbandefault]

the original TOS Enteprise, no carpet in the corridors

Really? I see carpet everywhere on the ship in the original series.

We must not be watching the same show.

 

[urbandefault]

So in TNG "First Contact" when Picard tells Chancellor Durken ( a Malcorian) that the Enterprise was NOT a warship (verbatim), was he lying???

Ask Dennis.