"Favor the Bold" Changeling Sex Question

[Captain Kathryn]

More of a nitpick than a question.

So when Odo has sex with the Female Changeling in solid forum, she claims to "know" what it feels like now as opposed to the way they would link as changelings.

So....did she like...change into a literal solid form of a person? Because sex requires certain stuff to be in the right place...like nerves, muscles, etc...they need to not only be there but react a certain way. And you would need a reproductive system with hormones, etc, that regulate sex.

Seems silly when you think about it that she (or he) could have "really" felt what it was like accurately.

Just a nitpick I found during my current rewatching of DS9 (have been for a while now). Can't wait til I get to Season 7 again. The Dukat insanity is priceless.

 

[2takesfrakes]

In the same way, I suspect, that some couples will resort to using cosplay, or bdsm, or whathaveyou, to spice up their sex-life, whilst others simply can't get turned-on by those bells and whistles. That may be the rough equivellant to what we have here with the female changeling's solid-form sex. In essence, it's all in her/their head. The "idea" of solid sex is what the actual turn on is, rather than the mechanisms behind it. The "kink," if you will ...

 

[Captain Kathryn]

I meant how can they physically transform their bodies to function that way and to feel the same things.

I think I'm just questioning the basic fabric of what a Changeling can do.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Depending on how much control a talented changeling has, I suspect that the Female Founder could have concentrated her nerves in a way that would intensify the physical sensations of sexuality. Perhaps it would not be an adequate simulation of coitus, but not all sexual acts are coitus.

Not to mention, the changelings appear to find physical contact to be sensually and intellectually appealing, which is why they exist in the link.

 

[Timo]

It should be noted that a skilled Changeling can fool a tricorder, supposedly indefinitely. This apparently regardless of whether it becomes a "human", "seagull", "rock" or "wall of fire". We really have no reason to think Changelings should fall anything short of perfection in their imitations, down to the minutest cell or amino acid.

Then again, even the infant and unskilled Odo has amino acids as part of his fundamental makeup (his being a DNA-based lifeform is mentioned in both the early "A Man Alone" and "Broken Link"). Is he faking those with skill he doesn't know he possesses?

If the dialogue in "The Search, Pt II" is to be believed, Changelings enjoy exploring the deeper nature of being a rock or a plant or whatever. Trying to imitate a human(oid) sex act to the minutest anatomical and functional detail is certainly something that would fit the bill.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Captain Kathryn]

It should be noted that a skilled Changeling can fool a tricorder, supposedly indefinitely. This apparently regardless of whether it becomes a "human", "seagull", "rock" or "wall of fire". We really have no reason to think Changelings should fall anything short of perfection in their imitations, down to the minutest cell or amino acid.

Then again, even the infant and unskilled Odo has amino acids as part of his fundamental makeup (his being a DNA-based lifeform is mentioned in both the early "A Man Alone" and "Broken Link"). Is he faking those with skill he doesn't know he possesses?

If the dialogue in "The Search, Pt II" is to be believed, Changelings enjoy exploring the deeper nature of being a rock or a plant or whatever. Trying to imitate a human(oid) sex act to the minutest anatomical and functional detail is certainly something that would fit the bill.

Timo Saloniemi

Alright I am a bit more convinced now.

 

[GalaxyX]

The whole concept of it is extremely downright stupid.

Mammalian species are already pre-programmed for sex as we know it physically.

Changelings on the other hand seem to get a similar experience by joining together in liquid form, and we know they can mimic solids externally, but nowhere near the detail necessary to create the necessary blood vessels and nervous system necessary for sex as we know it to even work for them.

IMO, changelings having regular solid sex is just as likely as plants to start jumping each other.

This is something that severely annoys me about the Odo/Kira relationship. Apparently, Odo has an infatuation with Kira. It's not "love". He wants to experience sticking the penis he doesn't have into Kira's vagina. It was so bad that he had to show the female changeling a form of this desire.

Holy fuck, I wish I could get that quality ganja the writing staff must have been puffing to come up with that shit and pat themselves on the back how "edgy" their writing must have seemed.

 

[GalaxyX]

It should be noted that a skilled Changeling can fool a tricorder, supposedly indefinitely. This apparently regardless of whether it becomes a "human", "seagull", "rock" or "wall of fire". We really have no reason to think Changelings should fall anything short of perfection in their imitations, down to the minutest cell or amino acid.

Then again, even the infant and unskilled Odo has amino acids as part of his fundamental makeup (his being a DNA-based lifeform is mentioned in both the early "A Man Alone" and "Broken Link"). Is he faking those with skill he doesn't know he possesses?

If the dialogue in "The Search, Pt II" is to be believed, Changelings enjoy exploring the deeper nature of being a rock or a plant or whatever. Trying to imitate a human(oid) sex act to the minutest anatomical and functional detail is certainly something that would fit the bill.

Timo Saloniemi

Yet they are incapable of forming a proper face. Of course in the exceptions where they can.

 

[Timo]

Yet they are incapable of forming a proper face. Of course in the exceptions where they can.

That's inane. The writers cleverly wrote Odo as being an unskilled, perhaps slightly retarded child, and amply demonstrated that adult Changelings are actually pretty scary in their skills of absolutely perfect mimicry. If a segment of the audience is confused by that, it deserves to be!

IMO, changelings having regular solid sex is just as likely as plants to start jumping each other.

Changelings do hate everything Solid as a policy, but their whole existence is based on perversity of sorts: they want to do Solid things for the sheer thrill. They want to feel rockness, they want to feel mistness, and of course they want to feel what a good anal fisting really feels like.

Whether they do that "regularly" is the only issue here. Odo's motivations on all this we pretty much know, and can sympathize with. He is, after all, only a confused teenager.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Jono]

Does it matter if she really understood what it felt like? She was only doing it to manipulate Odo. To reinforce how inferior solids were that even in their most intimate act is nothing compared to the Link. Whatever, if anything, he felt with Kira was inferior.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

^It was Odo's mission to gather and bring back information about solids, so I would think she would seek to understand ... and then dismiss.

 

[varek]

I thought changelings transformed completely/exactly into whatever they were changing into. If so, that would include all the internal organs, with their sensations.

However, that doesn't seem necessarily logical to me. I can see the exact outward appearance, but would they really know how to replicate the internal functioning of other organisms or objects?

 

[Timo]

Why not? They could always turn themselves into something that can probe deep inside, then proceed.

It's a moot point, as we know Changelings are perfect copycats and can fool Starfleet's best sensors with ease: the only way to detect a Changeling is to tickle it with a phaser set at level 3.5 or higher, according to "Homefront". And even that only flushes out unskilled Changelings like Odo; we may assume that the technique failed to reveal the Founder that imitated Admiral Leyton.

Could Changelings achieve that by merely mimicking the outer shell and then somehow jamming the sensors? Possibly. But the ability to turn into a jamming device doesn't fall short of the ability to become a perfect human IMHO. And even that aside, they did turn Odo into a perfect perfect human(oid) for a while!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Anwar]

About why the Changlings can't form full faces...

...It's fully possible that the faces we see them form are a holdover from their Solid forms they used to have. The Changlings are obviously descended from the same Progenitor species that seeded the rest of the Trek Galaxy (the female Progenitor and the Female Changling were the same actress) and were probably one of the first one to develop from the seeding. The Progenitors had less formed faces as well, so whenever they want to form a face the usual one they form is that one, being a holdover from their ancestors.

Odo may have just assumed his face was the result of lack of experience, when it was really what his DNA was hardwired to produce when he thinks "face".

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Of course the Changelings *can* form full faces. They couldn't imitate people like O'Brien, Bashir, Ambassador Krajensky, etc. without it!

The only reason we ever see other Changelings with 'smooth' faces is that they're deliberately trying to look like Odo.

As for the female changeling: Like most of her race, she can imitate humans so completely that she can feel everything a human can feel. Including sex.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

The only reason we ever see other Changelings with 'smooth' faces is that they're deliberately trying to look like Odo..

Laas had the same smoothness as Odo, but clearly had a different skull structure. Conversely, the Female Changeling did not alter her appearance: she had been stuck with her appearance long after her last encounter with Odo.

In general, shapeshifting is a talent that Odo has yet to master. Indeed, the one's we see imitating SF officers may have gone the Founder's version of special ops academy in order to take on complex forms at the deepest level. To assume that Odo should be able to take any shape at will because other shapeshifters can is silly. It's like saying I should be able to contort my body into pretzels just because people do it at the circus.