Fathers rights still laughable in the 24th century?

[Crewman6]

I think unintended pregnancies would be virtually wiped out by the 24th Century. One imagines birth control would be insanely easy (though Sisko did forget to get his "monthly shot".)

There's always the 24th Century version of the "morning after" pill. It involves a transporter and can be used mere seconds after ejaculation.

 

[Tenacity]

Okay, maybe there's a way to be fair about it.

Half the time (at random) the federation takes the child from the mother and presented them to the father, if the father chooses, the father can then takes the child somewhere the mother can't locate, the father then raises the child with the child never interacting with the mother, .

Although, if the father wishes, the mother can see the child, but the mother has no say in the matter.

Utopia.

 

[suarezguy]

What if they went separate and had absolutely no idea as was the case here?

Then that apparently happened because the woman decided he wouldn't be beneficial.

Having one parent exercise complete control over whether the other parent gets to have knowledge of the child existence, why?

Because that's not ideal but the alternative could easily be a lot worse. If the issue is just informing the other parent sure people in practice should do that, hopefully them not doing so should actually pretty rarely happen, but making it a legal obligation could entail a lot of other obligations and restrictions which would be way excessive and restrictive and unjust.

Because he didn't call her the next day? Send flowers? Too bad, did she make any effort to stay close to him?

She shouldn't have any obligation to (neither should he to her). She is the person who became pregnant and thus has to deal with it, in having to deal with it she should be able to do so as she wishes.

 

[mos6507]

I think unintended pregnancies would be virtually wiped out by the 24th Century.

This, which is why I was, for instance, never completely thrilled with Kirk's lovechild subplot in the movies. It helped the story to have it, but it was implausible.

She shouldn't have any obligation to (neither should he to her). She is the person who became pregnant and thus has to deal with it, in having to deal with it she should be able to do so as she wishes.

Not telling the father only delays the inevitable as children always want to know their origin and once they know they will probably want to reach out. So she can do as she wishes but a child has his or her own existential questions to deal with which (if she's not hopelessly self-centered) she should honor.

 

[Nakita Akita]

Okay, maybe there's a way to be fair about it.

Half the time (at random) the federation takes the child from the mother and presented them to the father, if the father chooses, the father can then takes the child somewhere the mother can't locate, the father then raises the child with the child never interacting with the mother, .

Although, if the father wishes, the mother can see the child, but the mother has no say in the matter.

Utopia.

But are babies still carried for 9 months Inside one person?
Does that person still have such accouterments as puking every morning?
Swollen legs?
Back pain?
Weight gain?
Body shape change?
Does the person in whom the baby is growing still push the grapefruit sized head from betwixt one's legs?

I think if one person deals with those items above, they are entitled to more say about the child.

 

[Tenacity]

She is the person who became pregnant and thus has to deal with it, in having to deal with it she should be able to do so as she wishes.

Carol carried David for several months, decades later he still didn't know who his father is. When does "what the mother wishes" disappear?

David, Carol, Jim. Only Carol gets a say?

 

[Marsden]

To add another angle to this discussion, I wonder if "the economics of the future" would be a consideration when it comes to a child's needs. A single parent could spend a lot more time with her/his kid instead of having to be at work all the time just to make ends meet. After all, it has been definitively established that there is no money in the Federation.

Kor

Indeed, I was thinking similarly, many barbaric practices of today would not be necessary with medical advances and a society that isn't needs based. Any number of children could safely and comfortably housed.

But are babies still carried for 9 months Inside one person?
Does that person still have such accouterments as puking every morning?
Swollen legs?
Back pain?
Weight gain?
Body shape change?
Does the person in whom the baby is growing still push the grapefruit sized head from betwixt one's legs?

I think if one person deals with those items above, they are entitled to more say about the child.

I doubt most if any of those things would happen in the 24th century, they probably beam the child out when they are ready.

 

[suarezguy]

Carol carried David for several months, decades later he still didn't know who his father is. When does "what the mother wishes" disappear?

David, Carol, Jim. Only Carol gets a say?

Uh, on-screen it was shown that David did know who his father was, though not a lot of specific details about him, and wasn't interested in knowing more about him. If he or any child didn't know and wanted to know about the father they could ask and hopefully sure the mother would tell and/or the information would be in records that were accessible to both the mother and child.

 

[Nakita Akita]

Indeed, I was thinking similarly, many barbaric practices of today would not be necessary with medical advances and a society that isn't needs based. Any number of children could safely and comfortably housed.



I doubt most if any of those things would happen in the 24th century, they probably beam the child out when they are ready.

In Next Generation, Worf delivers Keiko's and Miles' baby and said that he had done baby delivery simulations, so there must be people that prefer to do things naturally in the 24th century.

 

[Prax]

Picard had no rights, since it wasn't really his kid.
And whoever the real father was, if he didn't know he had a kid, and the mother didn't tell him and moved away, that doesn't reflect on any legal rights for fathers in the 24th century, or any federation laws, but purely the mother's decision. If the father had no idea, there's no legal action for him to pursue. He would live out his life in ignorance.

Indeed, I was thinking similarly, many barbaric practices of today would not be necessary with medical advances and a society that isn't needs based. Any number of children could safely and comfortably housed.



I doubt most if any of those things would happen in the 24th century, they probably beam the child out when they are ready.

No matter what technology is available, it still comes down to having parents, or foster parents willing to adopt an orphaned or neglected child. And I'd imagine that also no matter what technology is available, there will still be bad parents.

Also, transporting a baby out of the womb happened on Voyager, and was described as a very risky procedure, and only done in case of an emergency, or abnormalityabnormality. In one case, the baby died.

 

[gakelly]

Why does one parent get to make that level of decision?

Well, last time I checked, a woman gives birth to the baby. If she never contacts the man, there is no way he will know she is pregnant. So I guess the woman can make that decision if she wishes.
Not making a judgement on that decision. It is just what it is.
If a guy sleeps with a woman and never sees her again or knows anything about her from that day forward, how is he supposed to know he is a father?

 

[ED-209]

Well, last time I checked, a woman gives birth to the baby. If she never contacts the man, there is no way he will know she is pregnant. So I guess the woman can make that decision if she wishes.
Not making a judgement on that decision. It is just what it is.
If a guy sleeps with a woman and never sees her again or knows anything about her from that day forward, how is he supposed to know he is a father?

Because HE HAS THE RIGHT TO KNOW - a child is out there that is his, she is denying the child a father and making the decision herself that he should never even know he has a child. How can anyone think that's right???

David, Carol, Jim. Only Carol gets a say?

Apparently, whats even more disturbing is how many people think that's actually the right way of doing things,

 

[gakelly]

Because HE HAS THE RIGHT TO KNOW - a child is out there that is his, she is denying the child a father and making the decision herself that he should never even know he has a child. How can anyone think that's right???



Apparently, whats even more disturbing is how many people think that's actually the right way of doing things,

No where in my post did I condone it. It's just biology. A woman carries the baby and if she chooses "to get lost" the man may never know he had a child. It happens all the time in the modern world. I know one guy that recently found out he has a 9 year old son. Just watch the old Maury talk show. Half the episodes were about finding out who the dad was. The woman on the show usually had one night stands with a bunch of guys and she was trying to find out who was going to support the kid; that was the only reason she even wanted to know, not so the kid would be able to know his father.
People make decisions all the time that detrimentally affect others all the time.
And it obviously happens in the future. Worf didn't know about Alexander for a few years. K'ehlyr didn't tell Worf in the emissary; she hid it from him.
Jason Vigo mentioned that Miranda never told him who his father was, just that he was in Starfleet. Since it wasn't Picard's child then either there was another guy in Starfleet that was his dad, or she was wrong and it was some other guy that she slept with around the same time. Either way, she hid the fact that she had a child from Picard (if he was the one she was referring to about Starfleet) or she hid it from the other guy.
When Picard explained he would have been in his life had he known, Jason mentioned something like maybe that's not what she wanted. Miranda moved to a planet with a bunch of orphans living there. I am sure some of those kids probably had no clue who their father was either.

 

[Prax]

Because HE HAS THE RIGHT TO KNOW - a child is out there that is his, she is denying the child a father and making the decision herself that he should never even know he has a child. How can anyone think that's right???

Then the mother has taken away that right, and there's nothing the man can do about it, because he doesn't know. Is there supposed to be a special galactic police force that tracks down every young mother in the galaxy, and identify who the father is and make sure he knows he's a father?

 

[ED-209]

Then the mother has taken away that right, and there's nothing the man can do about it, because he doesn't know. Is there supposed to be a special galactic police force that tracks down every young mother in the galaxy, and identify who the father is and make sure he knows he's a father?

Genetic identification at birth, a single communication to the father. Assuming there’s no REAL reason not to.

 

[Prax]

Then if a woman is pregnant, and she runs off to some far off colony, the child would never have any dna testing done.

 

[Roundabout]

As a practical matter, if the mother of a child, for whatever reason, doesn't inform the father that he fathered their child, then that man is out of luck. Then again, for some men, they might actually think that they lucked out -- no obligations, no responsibilities, a clean conscience, blissful ignorance, as far as they're concerned.

The potential father may or may not have the rights, that the OP described, in this century or the 24th century. But that is almost besides the point. I don't think the Federation is a nanny state, nor should it be. Should it be the business of the Federation, or any authority, to be invading anyone's privacy in this type of matter?

If a potential father wants to take the initiative, he is free to do so. If he finds that he has a case, then he can can go through the legal process if there is one for him to go through. Or he can simply try to contact the mother or child.

In Picard's situation, he could have put on his Dixon Hill persona and investigate (or try to contact) every women that he has been with to determine whether he might have fathered a child with them. Heck, he probably could get Data to do a search of all Federation data (no pun intended) bases to see, if the any of the women he had ever been intimate with, ever had a child near the time he was with them. I take it that Picard was never interested in doing so.

When Picard explained he would have been in his life had he known, Jason mentioned something like maybe that's not what she wanted. Miranda moved to a planet with a bunch of orphans living there. I am sure some of those kids probably had no clue who their father was either.

I got the impression that it was easy for Picard to say those words when he did. Would the Starfleet career oriented Picard really have committed himself to be in a child's life in any meaningful way, back in the day?

It was established that Picard is a character that is uncomfortable around young children. Picard seems like a man who might not mind having offspring, so long as they're already adults. Picard doesn't come across as someone who would be committed enough to raise a child from the very beginning, to go through the growing pains.

Picard seems like someone who would rather dispense with child rearing, leave that up to someone else while he flies around the galaxy; but then wouldn't mind having that child cozy up to him and have a relationship with them after that child had become an adult, when the child no longer requires the parent to go through the daily grinds of child rearing.

 

[Mojochi]

Genetic identification at birth

I believe you might have Roddenberry's future confused with Orwell's. Any future where everyone's genetic information is mandatorily obtained is not one I'd ever hold in high regard. We can't even trust society with an internet page we use for social interaction. I certainly would be against them outright prying into people's genetics

As to the right's of fathers, I'd agree they have a right to know. I do not agree that they have a right to reshape personal liberty to achieve that, as in your quoted example. However, if a mother chooses to withhold the fact from the father, then I'd say she is in violation, & if the truth should come to be found out, then the father ought have a right to file charges if he wishes, and she could face some reasonable punitive consequences. That's the nature of a wrongful or criminal act. If someone steals or defrauds, and it never gets found out, then the victimized party is in no position to do anything about it. So to with this. That's just life, friends.

More than that you cannot ask imho, because frankly, I'm of the opinion that a man has an obligation to regulate his own behavior well enough that such eventualities are not largely slipping by him. Police your weapon, gentlemen, and otherwise expect that when you can't, it's out of your control.

 

[ED-209]

In the episode I’m talking about they have the genetic information of the mother to hand, They confirm a match with the genetic match with both parents. So they do I’m afraid, it would be completely unbelievable if they didn’t.

More evidence they do, in the episode where Worf refuses to help the Romulan, Crusher realises that very quickly, she didn’t have enough time to test over the 1000 people that are on the ship.

 

[Makarov]

Getting to the heart of the matter when Riker has a baby do they need to inform Tom?