Doctor Doom's time machine and really I don't think the generall public can't understand how important the space race was at the time. And really since they've been able to slide Hank Pym into the MCU as a major scientist, they can do the same for Reed.
Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;
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Doctor Doom's time machine and really I don't think the generall public can't understand how important the space race was at the time. And really since they've been able to slide Hank Pym into the MCU as a major scientist, they can do the same for Reed.
I was wondering recently why Doctor Doom didn't use the Time machine to make a world where he rules the planet.
Turns out I was thinking way too small.
Whatever has been going on on Earth was just sound and fury, while Doom (from Earth 616) played God ruling the entire Multiverse.
Moreso I'm wondering if his time machine is what first lead him to wonder about alternate realities. Meanwhile creating a new reality, means creating new Doctor Doom who is probably just as capable as himself at being a complete ####, and then it's Doom vs Doom, which is just RUDE.
Turns out I was thinking way too small.
Whatever has been going on on Earth was just sound and fury, while Doom (from Earth 616) played God ruling the entire Multiverse.
Moreso I'm wondering if his time machine is what first lead him to wonder about alternate realities. Meanwhile creating a new reality, means creating new Doctor Doom who is probably just as capable as himself at being a complete ####, and then it's Doom vs Doom, which is just RUDE.
At this point, the Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, and the X-Men will be difficult to insert into the MCU which has already established a coherent sense of continuity. The new version of Spider-Man as a kid might work as will the new street level heroes but the "big guns" of the comics universe that currently belong to other studios should probably remain apart.
Johnny Storm "I totally would have helped save New York from the Chitaurri, but that was the day that Doctor Doom fired the Baxter Building into orbit. I know! What are the odds!?"
Maybe Spock sends the FF into the future so they can't prevent him from assassinating Kennedy.
"President Kennedy was shot dead in 1963... "
Reed and Sue cry into each others shoulders.
" ...But he had been boning Marilyn Munroe for years."
Ben and Johnny high five each other.
Reed and Sue cry into each others shoulders.
" ...But he had been boning Marilyn Munroe for years."
Ben and Johnny high five each other.
The 'lost in the 60's or 70's' thing could play into that though. Have Reed be a colleague of Pym's or a student of Stark Sr., involved in much of the background setting. The incudent happens and the FF are created and arrive in the present day...
To be honest, I'm more interested in Marvel getting the rights to Galactus, Surfer, Skrulls etc. (fingers crossed they'll trade the X-Men TV rights), but if they do get the FF, I'm sure they'd do it justice.
No, that wouldn't be what I want, because they're still new to people in the present. Having their powers would still be a novelty and they'd need time to establish a new status quo, to get used to being in the present. That's exactly the opposite of what I'd like to see, which is a story after they've already built up a years-long legacy as the anchor of the superhero community. I don't want their powers to be new. I don't want them to be just starting out as superheroes. That's not the end of the story that's interesting to me. That's the end of the story that's failed to work cinematically on three occasions now. I don't want to see another iteration of how they get their powers. Their powers aren't even the interesting part of the Fantastic Four. What's interesting is the institution they've become. Their real power is the power of reputation and fame and influence and trust earned over a long history of achievement.
And I just don't see any way to reconcile that with the MCU, because they don't already exist in the MCU, so they'd have to be brand-new if they were added. Tony Stark already occupies the niche that Reed Richards would need to fill. That history and legacy would not be there.
Despite the fact that Captain America fought in WWII there's no hint of Cap in the MCU until his first movie, then he was retconned into the MCU history.
Make them Indian.
Get the Bollywood audience.
So far away from New York that no one in the Cinematic MCU has mentioned them before/yet, and being a foreign power they are probably SHIELD's competition, and a final solution to the Avenger's question.
Also, despite sending probes to the Moon and Mars (Thank You Wikipedia), the Indian Space program haven't sent men and women out there yet, which could be something an Indian Reed Richard's should be interested in doing. There was an Indian Spider-Man, yes there was, so why not an Indian Fantastic Four?
Not India, but I can imagine a space suit with a nozzle, valve and an overclocked space heater, so that some other countries Astronaut can piss on Neil Armstrong's foot prints after snapping the American flag that lot from '69 left up there, over his or her knee.
That had to have been the Red Ghosts back-up plan (yes I know, The Red Ghost predates the Apollo missions. Marvel-Time is weird.) if his apes didn't get super powers? Just have some fun, and get on Kruschev's good side.
Get the Bollywood audience.
So far away from New York that no one in the Cinematic MCU has mentioned them before/yet, and being a foreign power they are probably SHIELD's competition, and a final solution to the Avenger's question.
Also, despite sending probes to the Moon and Mars (Thank You Wikipedia), the Indian Space program haven't sent men and women out there yet, which could be something an Indian Reed Richard's should be interested in doing. There was an Indian Spider-Man, yes there was, so why not an Indian Fantastic Four?
Not India, but I can imagine a space suit with a nozzle, valve and an overclocked space heater, so that some other countries Astronaut can piss on Neil Armstrong's foot prints after snapping the American flag that lot from '69 left up there, over his or her knee.
That had to have been the Red Ghosts back-up plan (yes I know, The Red Ghost predates the Apollo missions. Marvel-Time is weird.) if his apes didn't get super powers? Just have some fun, and get on Kruschev's good side.
You, and at least 30% of all the Star Wars prequel haters on the planet.
Oh, and there have also been people who disliked Avatar, but never dared to admit it publicly, or perhaps even to themselves.
All this being said, I had fun watching the Robocop reboot.
Captain America is not a good analogy for what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about characters in general, I'm talking about the specific things I like about the Fantastic Four in the stories I've read. What I like about them is that they're not newcomers, that they have a longstanding history and reputation. That when the Atlanteans and Inhumans or whoever are on the brink of war, the first person they seek out to negotiate a peace is Susan Richards, because she's the one human being those communities trust and admire the most and because she has the kind of personal influence that can change the course of nations. That Ben Grimm has been running a floating superhero poker game for years, bringing together heroes (and sometimes even villains) who would rarely interact otherwise. That's the sort of thing I like about them, that foundational presence they have in the Marvel community. The fact that they aren't just four random people with goofy superpowers, but an institution in their own right. That's not something you could get if they were brand new.
To be fair, they started as newcomers at some point.
That being said, I think it's fairly easy to bring Reed Richards in as an established scientific genius without too much difficulty. Just say you brought him in as a consultant (the first mention doesn't even necessarily require an actor cast). But the Fantastic Four as an established team with superpowers is much more difficult. Their powers are in the range of Wanda and Pietro and would seem to either have warranted mention or would have muted surprise at seeing those two enhanced individuals.
My suggestion would have to be this, if they get the rights back to Fantastic Four: Bring in Reed Richards, established scientist first. Then spin them off and give them their powers. Powers are an established thing, so don't have them waste time shocked or distraught by having them (except Ben, whose complaint is the transformation of his appearance, not that he has powers). Then make them expert consultants/heroes/scientists/explorers (basically, what they were before, but with powers).
That being said, I think it's fairly easy to bring Reed Richards in as an established scientific genius without too much difficulty. Just say you brought him in as a consultant (the first mention doesn't even necessarily require an actor cast). But the Fantastic Four as an established team with superpowers is much more difficult. Their powers are in the range of Wanda and Pietro and would seem to either have warranted mention or would have muted surprise at seeing those two enhanced individuals.
My suggestion would have to be this, if they get the rights back to Fantastic Four: Bring in Reed Richards, established scientist first. Then spin them off and give them their powers. Powers are an established thing, so don't have them waste time shocked or distraught by having them (except Ben, whose complaint is the transformation of his appearance, not that he has powers). Then make them expert consultants/heroes/scientists/explorers (basically, what they were before, but with powers).
Of course they did, but I'm talking about what would be the more interesting story to tell about them. No cinematic attempt to depict them as newcomers has worked, and I think that suggests that the beginning of their story is not the interesting part. What matters most about them isn't their power to stretch or turn invisible or burn stuff, but the power of their reputation and influence and leadership. So I think all this filmic fixation on how they started out is focusing on the weakest part of their story.
Heck, I think the Tim Story movies actually did a decent job portraying their fame and influence -- not a great job, but a decent one. And they reached that status pretty quickly in that universe. But those movies still missed out on a lot of the depth and history that informs the comics characters, particularly Sue. The comics' Sue has grown immensely from the feeble, submissive helpmeet Lee and Kirby created into the renowned leader and diplomat and unstoppable badass and mother of godlike mutants that she is today, but the movie versions tend to be closer to the weaker version of the character.
Which is doable, but as I keep saying, having them be new at all would still deprive them of the most interesting aspects of them in the comics. There's just no way to reconcile that. I'd rather have them stay in a separate universe and start out with them as a well-established institution than sacrifice all the parts I like in order to shoehorn them into the MCU.
Heck, maybe that's what Fox could do to salvage the current series. Bring in a totally new creative team, keep the cast (maybe), but pick up maybe 5 years after their origin, make zero mention of those events, and just focus on what they've built since then. Be agnostic about whether this year's film happened at all and just tell a new story about the FF later in their career, one that builds on all the best aspects of them -- their institutional status, their role as explorers and adventurers rather than just crimefighters -- in a way this year's film failed to do. That separation in time would not only let them focus on the more mature team that I'd like to see, but would help distance and insulate the sequel from its predecessor. Kind of like how The Wrath of Khan was set more than a decade after ST:TMP and made no mention of its events (although I personally think ST:TMP is the far better movie of the two).
Although, of course, that approach would require its own sacrifices, because you'd lose the FF's connections to other superheroes, their anchoring role in that community. So either way, I guess, it would be a tradeoff.
Maybe it would be possible to bring the FF into the MCU and build them up into an establishment presence over the course of a few movies and a few years, like the way the Avengers have been built up over the past few years to where they are today. It could even be part of a long-term strategy to shift the focus away from the Avengers as Downey and the other stars eventually move on, with the FF gradually taking their place as the anchor of the universe. But it would take a while to get there, and I'm just not interested in seeing another take on them as newcomers.
The most interesting member of the group is Valeria.
Valeria is not a character that comes with a nontemplegrayed Reed or Sue.
No, she can't invisiblify individual grey strands of hair, don't be a goon.
Susan uses hair dye like ordinary normal nonfantastic people do.
Valeria is not a character that comes with a nontemplegrayed Reed or Sue.
No, she can't invisiblify individual grey strands of hair, don't be a goon.
Susan uses hair dye like ordinary normal nonfantastic people do.
I'd rather not have a separate universe, not for the FF's sake, but for everything else - particularly since Kang apparently belongs to them for some stupid reason. I'd like to see the Secret Invasion storyline, for example, and I think they'd do well to be a part of it.
That's a fair point. Again, I guess there'd be a tradeoff either way you went.
It would seem a bit odd to have both Chitauri and Skrulls in the MCU as separate entities, but I guess the movie's Chitauri were just your run-of-the-mill Faceless Alien Horde and didn't have any Skrullish characteristics, so it wouldn't really be a problem.
Cap is not mentioned though and in the first Avegners movie Coulson tells Rogers that Banner's problems started while they were trying recreate Super Soldier formula, which is a retcon. Then Cap., Peggy and even origins of the MCU's SHIELD is also retconned in. There's no reason why this also can't be done with the FF.