Fan Film Creation and Critique

[Trekkin]

I feel that. It's not that I think Axanar's going to fail on its own merits, but I fear we might reaching a point where it could be the greatest piece of art ever produced, and still not meet the expectations we've built up for it.

Of course, hype is a big part of promotion, so it has to happen in some capacity. And it's not like fan films are the only works you see suffer from it - you see posters around who have that same reaction to TWOK, Abrams films, TNG, TOS etc. The posts usually start with 'Well it's fine, but...'

I didn't like the Hobbit movies until the final one came out and I caught the expanded versions of the first two on tv. I think it might because it now feels more like one long movie (as opposed to three parts in the story like Lord of the Rings was,) so I found it felt more structured and less 'watch random stuff for 3 hours.' And in the expanded editions it has more 'book-like' stuff to keep the tone and pace more consistent, plus your expectations for them are different in terms of how much long they are and how much pointless detail there will be.

I'm not necessarily saying that would 'save' the movies for others who didn't like them. But funnily enough, it does tie into the OP's ideas about how different expectations of a medium can affect how critical you are of the content.

 

[northstar]

Exactly what Hela said. I have big hopes for Axanar, but my biggest fear that it gets eaten up by the expectations of the viewers. There is simply no way for a 1 or 2 million dollar production to compete with a 200 million dollar movie in terms of visual result, even if they suceed in a having a brilliant script (which I am not sure of, as they cite "Midway" as one of their inspirations - which I do not remember as a particularly good story, but a well played succession of events).

 

[Phantom]

We can't judge that film yet because it is not out yet.

I'm supportive and I've got faith, but I really do wish Phantom would restrain himself from talking about Axanar like it's a finished product. (I admit this is partly down to a bit of superstition on my part, it kind of feels like "jinxing" it, but also basically everyone who says we don't have much yet to evaluate is correct. So take it in what sense thou wilt, Phantom.)

No one has yet offered a cogent reason why the inished full-length project won't be to the standard of the material already released.

 

[wtriker1701]

Well, you're right, Phantom. There is no reason, the movie won't be to the standard of the material already released. But there's no reason to the contrary, also. There are many variables to this equation. Changes of production personnel, as example... like the director.

No one, back in the day, would have expected a season opener like Spock's Brain.

 

[fireproof78]

We can't judge that film yet because it is not out yet.

I'm supportive and I've got faith, but I really do wish Phantom would restrain himself from talking about Axanar like it's a finished product. (I admit this is partly down to a bit of superstition on my part, it kind of feels like "jinxing" it, but also basically everyone who says we don't have much yet to evaluate is correct. So take it in what sense thou wilt, Phantom.)

No one has yet offered a cogent reason why the inished full-length project won't be to the standard of the material already released.

Phantom, please don't take this personally, as this is not a personal attack, or meant as an attack. However, these are my thoughts, about it, as I keep trying to unpack why Axanar leaves me skeptical and cautious.

For me, Axanar feels very "anti-" in terms of its framing and design. It isn't like other fan films because it is professional grade. It isn't like JJ-Trek because it revisits the Prime universe, etc, etc.

Marketing is a tricky game, so I'll not fault anyone for that framing. I'll just say that it feels very much that Axanar is created as a negative reaction to other Trek productions, both official and fan. That is not a way to interest me in any thing. I didn't like Abrams "This isn't your father's Star Trek!" campaign, and I didn't watch Clone Wars for a while because one producer said "It has action, adventure and humor. It's everything the fans wanted the Prequels to be."

It's that negative comparison that makes me very, very, cautious.

Ok, everyone still onboard?

Right, moving on.

I don't care about the business side of fan production. I have not money in any fan production because I have seen and been a part of, too many productions that never get past pre-producton. that I don't contribute money. Sorry, but finances are tight as it is.

But, all that said, Prelude was good, but it didn't wow me in a way that no fan production has done before. The acting was ok, but that may have been the limits of the documentary style of the short.

We have an idea of the story, but no concept of the script, and the acting has not sold me. There is nothing about Prelude that translates to me as a guarantee that Axanar will be on the same level. The style will be different, there is a larger cast, and greater set variance, as well as greater action. There are too many variables for me to say, with confidence, the quality will be the same.

So, I'm cautious, but the hype has the tendency to push me away from projects. I'm not anti-Axanar, but I'm not sold on it either.

That's my two credits. Take them for what they are worth.

 

[Barbreader]

Concerning Axanar, I have no idea how good it will be (or bad.) I hope it will be good, and I did donate to it, mostly because I had developed a non-Trek relationship with Alec which made me feel connected to him in a way I am not connected to most first-time filmmakers. That said, I try to not pay much attention to what filmmakers say about other filmmakers.

When asked (and I have no idea why people ask me, but they do) I generally advise people to give to filmmakers who has already produced films, and whose films they enjoyed. I suggest they give the amount they would have willingly paid to see the films they have ALREADY seen, so even if the guy (and the fan film world is overwhelmingly male, Solarbaby notwithstanding) is hit by a truck, they already got their money's worth.

I don't really understand the whole business of people who aren't planning on making films being interested in all the behind-the-scenes stuff. I'm not even a fan of blooper reels. But people seem to follow the hype with enthusiasm, cheering for it the way people cheer for professionals sports teams, another thing which mystifies me.

There are exceptions. Star Trek: The Early Frontier is a film being planned by deaf Trekkies, set in an alternative universe where there is no sound. They post their discussions in American sign language with subtitles. I think that's cool. I don't spend a lot of time on it either, but I think it's cool. Star Trek Anthology has a theme of autism, which is less obvious but still potentially interesting and different. Pro Trek did have enabled persons who were born with disabilities, but nothing quite like these.

In addition to linking to complete and ready-to-watch films and audio shows at Star Trek Reviewed, I link to other people's critiques. Some people leave them in comments (which I permit to post only if they are not personal attacks and child-friendly). I encourage anyone here who likes to critique films, create a blog with your discussions, let me know, and (as long as it's not a personal attack and is child-friendly) I'll add a link to your critique below my link to that film. The top tier films have many reviews, but if you are willing to take on some of the less-well-known works, you can still be the sole reviewer of a fan film.

There seem to be ever more people interested in watching Star Trek fan films. Use of Star Trek Reviewed hasn't skyrocketed, yet continues to grow each year. My tracking software suggests more and more people are looking for Star Trek Fan Films using mobile devices. I don't know if that's how they watch them. I think the major films are deserving of viewing on a larger screen. Funniest reference I've seen to my website this year was in a BB where somebody said, "I wish there was one place I could go and just get a listing of all the Star Trek Fan Film and Fan Audio productions." Another poster (who also posts here, if he wants to identify himself) responded, "Be careful what you wish for," and posted a link to Star Trek Reviewed. The guy asking for the link probably didn't have a clue how many hundreds, even thousands of Star Trek Fan films and audio productions are available.

OK, that's my very viewer (not creator) oriented two cents on creation (to which a non-creator may or may not donate) and critique of fan films.

 

[Trekkin]

I'm interested in BHTS because I'm just naturally curious and analytical. It's like if I see a magic trick, I tend to try and work out how they did it. It also might have something to do with wanting to get into that area when I was younger (including initially studying it for a bit at Uni), so I got into the habit of trying to learn from others.

It helps I can still 'switch off' my knowledge of background stuff, so the 'magic' isn't ruined for me when I'm just watching the thing. So for eg. I can still read about the birth of Frankenstein's monster, and not have it running through my head 'Oh, this was so inspired by Shelley's still-births' or be distracted by the parts that may have been the product of Percy sticking his nose in.

 

[Phantom]

Well, you're right, Phantom. There is no reason, the movie won't be to the standard of the material already released. But there's no reason to the contrary, also. There are many variables to this equation. Changes of production personnel, as example... like the director.

Ok, a fair concern. Is the teaser scene shot by the Prelude director or the new guy? Does anyone know?

 

[Harvey]

It was directed by Robert Meyer Burnett, who will be helming the feature, and since it's a scene from the feature script, it works as a sample of the new writing team, too.

 

[fireproof78]

It was directed by Robert Meyer Burnett, who will be helming the feature, and since it's a scene from the feature script, it works as a sample of the new writing team, too.

For good or for ill

 

[Jedman67]

I'm interested in BHTS because I'm just naturally curious and analytical. It's like if I see a magic trick, I tend to try and work out how they did it. It also might have something to do with wanting to get into that area when I was younger (including initially studying it for a bit at Uni), so I got into the habit of trying to learn from others.

It helps I can still 'switch off' my knowledge of background stuff, so the 'magic' isn't ruined for me when I'm just watching the thing. So for eg. I can still read about the birth of Frankenstein's monster, and not have it running through my head 'Oh, this was so inspired by Shelley's still-births' or be distracted by the parts that may have been the product of Percy sticking his nose in.

To this day, whenever i watch rerurns of TNG/VOY/DS9, i always notice when an extra has no speaking role - which is quite often - because of royalties/union rules/ or something.

 

[Kor]

I also enjoy behind the scenes stuff, even though I am not planning on working on any productions myself (though I did do some study of TV production in college).

In general, I am curious about how things are put together. For example, I recently watched a documentary on how a certain skyscraper in London was designed and built, even though I have absolutely no plans to go back to school for years to become an architect and make a skyscraper myself. Maybe some people would find that weird.

Kor

 

[fireproof78]

I also enjoy behind the scenes stuff, even though I am not planning on working on any productions myself (though I did do some study of TV production in college).

In general, I am curious about how things are put together. For example, I recently watched a documentary on how a certain skyscraper in London was designed and built, even though I have absolutely no plans to go back to school for years to become an architect and make a skyscraper myself. Maybe some people would find that weird.

Kor

Not me. I enjoy understanding things, their history and how they are put together. It's one facet of constantly learning that I find truly enjoyable. That's why I enjoy commentaries and the like is I appreciate industry inside information that provides incite as to how things happen.

Usually a lot more complicated than people think but not for the reasons they think it is.

If it's weird, then I'm weird too

 

[Barbreader]

If it's weird, then I'm weird too

I compared it to liking watching Professional sports, I didn't intend to imply it was weird. I intended to imply that I was weird.

Most people seem to like blooper reels, for example.

I do have a problem with knowing how an effect was created. Inspired by Batman, at a time in my life I was in fear of my then-husband, I studied martial arts. It had the hoped-for effect, in that when he attacked me, I was able to step out of the way of his fists or get out of his attempts to choke me without hurting him. However, it also had the unintended effect of ruining most Hollywood fight scenes for me. Some stunt man would do a double flip and land perfectly in a Western barroom brawl. I would rise to my feet in front of the screen, clapping at his excellent form. The TV doctor would then walk up to him, take his pulse and declare him dead. I knew he was not even bruised.

Have not be able to watch Westerns ever since.

I wish I had your gifts to turn it off.

 

[fireproof78]

If it's weird, then I'm weird too

I compared it to liking watching Professional sports, I didn't intend to imply it was weird. I intended to imply that I was weird.

Most people seem to like blooper reels, for example.

I do have a problem with knowing how an effect was created. Inspired by Batman, at a time in my life I was in fear of my then-husband, I studied martial arts. It had the hoped-for effect, in that when he attacked me, I was able to step out of the way of his fists or get out of his attempts to choke me without hurting him. However, it also had the unintended effect of ruining most Hollywood fight scenes for me. Some stunt man would do a double flip and land perfectly in a Western barroom brawl. I would rise to my feet in front of the screen, clapping at his excellent form. The TV doctor would then walk up to him, take his pulse and declare him dead. I knew he was not even bruised.

Have not be able to watch Westerns ever since.

I wish I had your gifts to turn it off.

First of all, the weird comment was to Kor's comment about watching architecture and how things are put together. So, don't worry about that

Secondly, I drive my wife nuts now because I don't enjoy films in the way that I use to. I enjoy the nuts and bolts, the world building, but acting can turn me off rather quickly, and I don't always finish films all the way through. I don't really enjoy Westerns, so I'll have to give you that one.

I love blooper reals and BTS stuff because I love seeing actors in their craft, trying to create the scene and everything. It impresses me to no end that any film gets completed, much less a good one. BTS gives more insight to some of the camaraderie and blood, sweat and tears that goes in to such projects.

 

[Kor]

^ I experienced something similar when I first learned how to shave with a straight razor several years ago. I started to realize that in nearly every historical film with a straight razor shaving scene, they do it completely wrong, and it still gets on my nerves!

And I think it's often similar when people see their profession depicted in movies and TV.

But for me, seeing the background info on how the movie is made is different than that. It doesn't ruin the experience of watching the movie; instead, it makes me appreciate the whole thing even more.

Kor

 

[Jedman67]

@Fireproof, @Barb
The only "Western" i really enjoy watching is Blazing Saddles
Possibly the only one i've ever seen.

 

[fireproof78]

^ I experienced something similar when I first learned how to shave with a straight razor several years ago. I started to realize that in nearly every historical film with a straight razor shaving scene, they do it completely wrong, and it still gets on my nerves!

And I think it's often similar when people see their profession depicted in movies and TV.

But for me, seeing the background info on how the movie is made is different than that. It doesn't ruin the experience of watching the movie; instead, it makes me appreciate the whole thing even more.

Kor

Yes, indeed

@Fireproof, @Barb
The only "Western" i really enjoy watching is Blazing Saddles
Possibly the only one i've ever seen.

That's not a bad one to enjoy.

I've seen a couple but none that really stuck with me, so it's a mixed bag

 

[martok2112]

My favorite Westerns are (Blazing Saddles notwithstanding): The Magnificent Seven, Tombstone, Wyatt Earp, and Dances With Wolves.

 

[Kor]

I also like The Magnificent Seven.

And I've always liked the original Bonanza series. It used its setting to teach lessons about important stuff, just like Trek.

Kor