Fallout: The Television Series

[kirk55555]

I'm not being sarcastic or asking this to be rude, but is English your second language, or do you something that makes it hard for you to judge things like writing and acting? I only ask this because you seem to have very different opinions and ideas about these kind of things than most other people, even professionals in the industry. I've seen you come into threads about some of the most beloved and acclaimed series and movies of the last decade, which have been considered very well written and acted, and have won practically every award in the industry for those categories, and talk about how horrible the acting and writing are. It's honestly starting to feel a little strange how you seem to consistently contradict 99% of people who watch, and I'm just wondering if there is a reason.
EDITED: To add not to beginning of post.

Well considering the fact that I'm an American born in the US who only speaks one language, and its the one I'm currently typing in, I can say with certainty that English is my first and only language. I just don't go along with a general opinion if I disagree with it. Shitty programs/movies/etc win awards all the time. and TV snobs love fawning over rancid shit as long as it hits the standard "prestige TV" bullet points. Now Fallout, as bad as it is, doesn't seem to hit enough "Prestige TV" bullet points to justify its fans being so defensive about it, so all I can guess is that its costuming and prop departments are so good people just ignore the fact that its writing is just absolute shit. I personally don't think seeing stuff that is comparable to what talented cosplayers have been doing for years is worth ignoring the shows numerous problems, but thats just me.

If you use awards to justify a shows quality, you really need a different metric. I don't care if anyone agrees with me or not when it comes to my opinions on shows, but "winning an award" means literally nothing in regards to something's quality. Crappy things have won emmys/oscars/etc and amazing things have won nothing, the standards for giving awards are capricious and influenced by any number of factors not related to quality.

I like plenty of popular things, but I also disagree with film/tv snobs about basically everything. I also hold adaptations/spinoffs of properties I like to a much higher standard on average then most people seem to. If something disrespects the property, especially because the producers/writers/showrunner seem to just be using the property for their own purposes, I'm going to call it out. On the other hand, a lesser quality show that I think is at least trying its hardest I'll give a lot of leeway to. For example, I like Rings of Power a lot even though its almost hilariously incompetent when it comes to actually following Tolkien's lore, but it feels more like a product of its rights situation then active malevolence by the showrunners, unlike shows like The Witcher, Andor or Fallout which feel like they are made by people who for some reason (probably money) chose to work on them despite actively seeming to hate their franchises.

 

[fireproof78]

Fallout which feel like they are made by people who for some reason (probably money) chose to work on them despite actively seeming to hate their franchises.

Proof of hatred please?

 

[fireproof78]

So, I binged the it over the weekend. Overall, it was very watchable in the moment, but there was a lot of "fridge logic" involved.

Spoiler: Spoilers

The biggest issue with the show by far is the twist that Moldaver is/was president of the NCR completely undercuts the pilot episode. The NCR is a pretty morally ambiguous state, of course, and I don't think it's beyond plausibility that Moldaver may have hired a bunch of raiders for her attempt to kidnap Hank. She may not even care about the collateral damage (she certainly didn't seem to care about the prisoners left behind). However, if she really had the close relationship with Lucy's mother that the finale suggests, she would never just send in a random raider to effectively rape the child of her friend, then try and brutally murder her. Are we really meant to believe she didn't have a trusted lieutenant who could have faked being a husband better?

There were a few smaller choices which seemed to be "rule of cool" as well. Like when the idiots in the organ harvesting location release the feral ghouls. The weird thing was how they didn't do it initially, then complied at gunpoint (without trying to convince Lucy otherwise) and were promptly killed. Which was dumb as hell, given they had better odds against a girl with a gun than 3-4 feral ghouls. Of course, Fallout is an inherently kinda ridiculous universe, but this still was an immersion-breaking moment for me.

Cooper Howard's decision to start eating the friend he put out of his misery who was turning feral was also one of those cases that was a WTF moment. I'm actually fine with the idea that he's been brought so low that he doesn't see anything wrong with survival cannibalism, but he cut out like a few pounds of meat and left it at that, when you'd expect a much more efficient butchering process.

I also thought some of the language used during the flashback Cooper had overhearing the corporate leaders plotting WW3 was a bit...off? Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that Amazon would take such an openly anti-capitalist stance. But the arguments they made around "profit" made absolutely no fucking sense. There is no such thing as "profit" after WW3, because all stock markets and the like are gone. It's just about total control at that point.

Admittedly, these are all (save the first one) relatively minor quibbles that didn't stop me from enjoying the show, and the character arcs of the three mains are well done, and the twist, however contrived, is one hell of a twist, which gives the story political theming it didn't appear to have at the beginning.

Spoiler: What?

One, how did you conclude Moldaver was the leader of the NCR? The NCR is more than just Shady Sands? This makes zero sense to me. Also, she doesn't care about the Vault residents at all. She hates Vault-Tec is an unending passion, a flame perhaps, and any damage is justifiable harm to them.

Two, the idiots were high. That was painfully simple to figure out. Lucy did not count on the ghouls killing them She's still naive.

Cooper did it as a lesson to Lucy, not as any efficiency moment.

The profit is control and territory. That's the whole point. If people cannot understand that corporations and power brokers do not want any competition (which is spelled out again and again in Fallout lore of companies constantly absorbing their competitors) I don't know what to say, especially given the text of the show.

 

[Tuskin38]

So, I binged the it over the weekend. Overall, it was very watchable in the moment, but there was a lot of "fridge logic" involved.

Spoiler: Spoilers

The biggest issue with the show by far is the twist that Moldaver is/was president of the NCR completely undercuts the pilot episode. The NCR is a pretty morally ambiguous state, of course, and I don't think it's beyond plausibility that Moldaver may have hired a bunch of raiders for her attempt to kidnap Hank. She may not even care about the collateral damage (she certainly didn't seem to care about the prisoners left behind). However, if she really had the close relationship with Lucy's mother that the finale suggests, she would never just send in a random raider to effectively rape the child of her friend, then try and brutally murder her. Are we really meant to believe she didn't have a trusted lieutenant who could have faked being a husband better?

There were a few smaller choices which seemed to be "rule of cool" as well. Like when the idiots in the organ harvesting location release the feral ghouls. The weird thing was how they didn't do it initially, then complied at gunpoint (without trying to convince Lucy otherwise) and were promptly killed. Which was dumb as hell, given they had better odds against a girl with a gun than 3-4 feral ghouls. Of course, Fallout is an inherently kinda ridiculous universe, but this still was an immersion-breaking moment for me.

Cooper Howard's decision to start eating the friend he put out of his misery who was turning feral was also one of those cases that was a WTF moment. I'm actually fine with the idea that he's been brought so low that he doesn't see anything wrong with survival cannibalism, but he cut out like a few pounds of meat and left it at that, when you'd expect a much more efficient butchering process.

I also thought some of the language used during the flashback Cooper had overhearing the corporate leaders plotting WW3 was a bit...off? Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that Amazon would take such an openly anti-capitalist stance. But the arguments they made around "profit" made absolutely no fucking sense. There is no such thing as "profit" after WW3, because all stock markets and the like are gone. It's just about total control at that point.

Admittedly, these are all (save the first one) relatively minor quibbles that didn't stop me from enjoying the show, and the character arcs of the three mains are well done, and the twist, however contrived, is one hell of a twist, which gives the story political theming it didn't appear to have at the beginning.

Spoiler

I don’t think she was leader of the NCR at all. It felt more like a cult

 

[Tuskin38]

Andor or Fallout which feel like they are made by people who for some reason

You still talking this nonsense? You have zero evidence of this. In fact there’s quite opposite, there’s more evidence they do like it.

 

[Charles Phipps]

People want to interpret Moldaver differently based on their desires for the setting.

Spoiler

NCR has collapsed but Moldaver is the leader of the people who want to revive it. There's people like the "President" who don't recognize her authority but the Vault 4 Shady Sands survivors and others view her as a messianic-esque figure.

 

[JD]

Watched episode 2 this morning, and it was just as good as the first.

Spoiler: Episode 2

This was an interesting first look at The Wasteland.
I'm liking Dr. Wizig so far, Michael Emerson is always great. X404 is pretty cool too. I'm very curious to see why everyone is so desperate to find him.
Knight Titus was an asshole, not sorry to see him go.
Damn, The Ghul is pretty scary. I was furious when I thought he killed the dog at first, but I am willing to forgive him since they were still alive and he healed them.

 

[Commander Troi]

We watched episode 1 yesterday. Neither my hubby nor I have ever played the game or knew much going in.

It was a lot to process with the 3 main characters and their groups. I'm guessing they will all become clearer as we go. Lucy is naive but also tough and willing to fight. Maximus is also naive, in a different way, but since he's taken beatings, I think he's more of a follower right now and the quasi-religiousness of the Brotherhood hasn't helped him be more. I love Goggins and can't wait to see how the sad and sweet cowboy from the opening became the Ghoul.

Also, loved the fridge joke.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Proof of hatred please?

There is no proof. It's his go to argument when he doesn't like something,

 

[JD]

Are the flashbacks showing the stuff around the bombs going off and Cooper becoming The Ghoul spread throughout the season or is it just one flashback episode?

 

[Lakenheath 72]

The flashbacks are spread throughout the season.

 

[evilchumlee]

Are the flashbacks showing the stuff around the bombs going off and Cooper becoming The Ghoul spread throughout the season or is it just one flashback episode?

They are throughout the show, and tie directly into the wasteland/future plot.

I just finished this show, and thought it was absolutely fantastic. Leaps and bounds the best videogame adaptation I have ever seen, with an important distinction of being less an "adaptation" and more just... a Fallout show. It fits (almost) perfectly right into the game world. There are a few oddities, but I don't think there's anything that can't be explained away.

Spoilers for my lore issues/explanations. One or two seriously big ones so, you've been warned.

Spoiler

The #1 that people complaining about is the destruction of Shady Sands. It caught me at first too, but honestly I don't think it's actually an issue. Yes, we do hear a bit about Shady Sands in NV in 2281, Shady Sands was destroyed according to the show 2277. Hear me out, here's a few things... one, the NCR in NV may not be doing as well as some NCR people seem to suggest. We may be hearing about the NCR through something of a propaganda filter... and quite honestly, from what we see in the game, they really aren't doing that great.

I believe it's Hanlon in the game who speaks about Shady Sands. He would have every reason to exaggerate and NOT let out any bad news. It's also only been a few years and information may not travel super quickly. Alot of the NCR people in the Mojave seem to have been there for quite some time, potentially back to around the 2277ish time frame when they were fighting for Hoover Dam. Some of they may not even know... I really don't think it's a major lore issue.

#2 there's The Ghouls anti-feral drug. I don't actually think this outside of lore per say, it's just something we haven't seen before and might be something a bit more localized to the Hollywood area. I don't think it's exactly implied that ALL ghouls need this drug to not go feral, rather that it can stave off going feral once a ghoul has shown symptoms.

On a different note, this isn't an issue at all, more of an observation... the BoS seems to be under the command of the East Coast BoS now. They mention early on that they're getting orders, to paraphrase, "all the way from the Commonwealth". I think we've established the BoS ending for Fo4 is the canon ending and that the BoS has basically set up in the Commonwealth as their HQ. The West Coast BoS seems to have been absorbed, or perhaps continues to exist as a splinter group.

 

[Jedi Marso]

Spoiler

2 there's The Ghouls anti-feral drug. I don't actually think this outside of lore per say, it's just something we haven't seen before and might be something a bit more localized to the Hollywood area. I don't think it's exactly implied that ALL ghouls need this drug to not go feral, rather that it can stave off going feral once a ghoul has shown symptoms.

Spoiler

I think the anti-feral drug for the ghouls is a story mechanism, a form of kryptonite to give Goggins' character a weakness. Because without it, he appears to be damn near invincible. It's a form of leverage that can be used against him, and a leash of sorts because he will always need to sidetrack to find a new supply.

 

[Tuskin38]

Spoiler

The #1 that people complaining about is the destruction of Shady Sands. It caught me at first too, but honestly I don't think it's actually an issue. Yes, we do hear a bit about Shady Sands in NV in 2281, Shady Sands was destroyed according to the show 2277. Hear me out, here's a few things... one, the NCR in NV may not be doing as well as some NCR people seem to suggest. We may be hearing about the NCR through something of a propaganda filter... and quite honestly, from what we see in the game, they really aren't doing that great.

I believe it's Hanlon in the game who speaks about Shady Sands. He would have every reason to exaggerate and NOT let out any bad news. It's also only been a few years and information may not travel super quickly. Alot of the NCR people in the Mojave seem to have been there for quite some time, potentially back to around the 2277ish time frame when they were fighting for Hoover Dam. Some of they may not even know... I really don't think it's a major lore issue.

Spoiler

There's a lot a lot of hints in NV that the NCR is in decline, over extending itself and such, corruption at the highest levels.

Like, you're not supposed to 100% cheer for the NCR in New Vegas as they're trying to copy the pre-war USA, but that goes over some people's heads.

They're the less evil of the factions though.

 

[evilchumlee]

Like, you're not supposed to 100% cheer for the NCR in New Vegas as they're trying to copy the pre-war USA, but that goes over some people's heads.

They're the less evil of the factions though.

I can respond to that non-spoiler.

That is true. The NCR is very much "the old problems, but NOW!" They aren't actively malevolent like most Fallout factions are so that's a big plus. They're just incredibly corrupt, just as the old USA was. It wouldn't surprise me at all that if given time, basically a new Vault-Tec would emerge out of NCR.

I'm still split on a House-run New Vegas. It's not ideal by any means, but I think House is also not actively malevolent. House will 100% use "means to an end" to justify damn near anything, but at the end of the day I do think that House DOES actually want to rebuild the world.

Oh on that, two observations from the show... also pretty damn spoilery...

Spoiler

It was pretty awesome to see Mr. House, and I also like the idea that he seemed to have told Vault-Tec to go stuff it and did his own thing.

We obviously didn't get a great look at it, but that last show of New Vegas made me wonder. It looked to be in rough shape, certainly not the glitzy city House intended it to become in a House victory ending. Makes me wonder what ending for NV they're going with. I'm thinking either NCR or Indy NV, leaning towards NCR... but in a situation where with the loss of Shady Sands and the general decline of the NCR, NV was largely abandoned.

I do have to wonder what Hank went there to find though.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

They are throughout the show, and tie directly into the wasteland/future plot.

I just finished this show, and thought it was absolutely fantastic. Leaps and bounds the best videogame adaptation I have ever seen, with an important distinction of being less an "adaptation" and more just... a Fallout show. It fits (almost) perfectly right into the game world. There are a few oddities, but I don't think there's anything that can't be explained away.

Spoilers for my lore issues/explanations. One or two seriously big ones so, you've been warned.

Spoiler

The #1 that people complaining about is the destruction of Shady Sands. It caught me at first too, but honestly I don't think it's actually an issue. Yes, we do hear a bit about Shady Sands in NV in 2281, Shady Sands was destroyed according to the show 2277. Hear me out, here's a few things... one, the NCR in NV may not be doing as well as some NCR people seem to suggest. We may be hearing about the NCR through something of a propaganda filter... and quite honestly, from what we see in the game, they really aren't doing that great.

I believe it's Hanlon in the game who speaks about Shady Sands. He would have every reason to exaggerate and NOT let out any bad news. It's also only been a few years and information may not travel super quickly. Alot of the NCR people in the Mojave seem to have been there for quite some time, potentially back to around the 2277ish time frame when they were fighting for Hoover Dam. Some of they may not even know... I really don't think it's a major lore issue.

#2 there's The Ghouls anti-feral drug. I don't actually think this outside of lore per say, it's just something we haven't seen before and might be something a bit more localized to the Hollywood area. I don't think it's exactly implied that ALL ghouls need this drug to not go feral, rather that it can stave off going feral once a ghoul has shown symptoms.

On a different note, this isn't an issue at all, more of an observation... the BoS seems to be under the command of the East Coast BoS now. They mention early on that they're getting orders, to paraphrase, "all the way from the Commonwealth". I think we've established the BoS ending for Fo4 is the canon ending and that the BoS has basically set up in the Commonwealth as their HQ. The West Coast BoS seems to have been absorbed, or perhaps continues to exist as a splinter group.

In terms of it being "a Fallout show" I got good vibes early on when we first saw a stimpack being used and having a cure all computer game effect. Basing the show in a computer game reality was a great move because trying to ground Fallout in reality just makes it another generic Mad Maxx type thing.

It's amazing how much was left out too and how much potential is out there for more. We barely saw the Enclave and saw no Super Mutants for instance.

Spoiler: Ep:8

in the cryo room we got a good look at a screen full of the frozen people's names. I didn't recognise any as important and didn't see Goggins family but the lingering makes me think it is Easter eggy

 

[fireproof78]

I can respond to that non-spoiler.

That is true. The NCR is very much "the old problems, but NOW!" They aren't actively malevolent like most Fallout factions are so that's a big plus. They're just incredibly corrupt, just as the old USA was. It wouldn't surprise me at all that if given time, basically a new Vault-Tec would emerge out of NCR.

I'm still split on a House-run New Vegas. It's not ideal by any means, but I think House is also not actively malevolent. House will 100% use "means to an end" to justify damn near anything, but at the end of the day I do think that House DOES actually want to rebuild the world.

Oh on that, two observations from the show... also pretty damn spoilery...

Spoiler

It was pretty awesome to see Mr. House, and I also like the idea that he seemed to have told Vault-Tec to go stuff it and did his own thing.

We obviously didn't get a great look at it, but that last show of New Vegas made me wonder. It looked to be in rough shape, certainly not the glitzy city House intended it to become in a House victory ending. Makes me wonder what ending for NV they're going with. I'm thinking either NCR or Indy NV, leaning towards NCR... but in a situation where with the loss of Shady Sands and the general decline of the NCR, NV was largely abandoned.

I do have to wonder what Hank went there to find though.

Spoiler: Episode 8 end

I wonder if he is actually looking for a Vault, and the Securitron army was not the only thing House had squirreled away.

It's amazing how much was left out too and how much potential is out there for more. We barely saw the Enclave and saw no Super Mutants for instance.

That's what truly makes me excited for more seasons. There is a lot more to unpack, and the story set up is really interesting to me.

 

[evilchumlee]

In terms of it being "a Fallout show" I got good vibes early on when we first saw a stimpack being used and having a cure all computer game effect. Basing the show in a computer game reality was a great move because trying to ground Fallout in reality just makes it another generic Mad Maxx type thing.

Yeah, one of my favorite things about this show is that it isn't "a show that adapts Fallout", or "A show based on Fallout", it's... a Fallout show. It's a part of that universe, right along with the games. Not only is it a part, but it adds to the lore.

My fiance has never played Fallout and I was explaining some stuff along the way, and adding in my general lore thoughts... I had almost literally just mentioned something about an "iceberg theory" and then...

Spoiler

...the show went and confirmed my iceberg theory. I was telling her about how the lore is unclear on who started the Great War. Some blame the Chinese. Some blame the US. I had told her there were some theories that it was Vault-Tec who launched the first nuke...

And then like a few minutes later, Vault-Tec is talking about dropping the nuke.

Honestly the whole backstory here REALLY expands the lore. We now know that Vault-Tec wanted the nukes to fall, specifically to try to eliminate the undesirables on the surface and then repopulate with better people, playing a centuries-long game from the get go.

I do wish we got a bit more about the Enclave though. I want to know how they tied into Vault-Tec's plans. It had always seemed like Vault-Tec and Enclave her basically working together, but now it seems that the various corporations were working together and the Enclave was just sort of along for the ride. The Enclave seems to almost survive in spite of Vault-Tec, not because of it. Although there does at least to be some coordination, given how Head-Scientist-Guy knew details about the Vaults experiments and what not.

The backstory also somewhat seems to expand into Fallout 4's backstory. Makes me wonder if the people in Vault 111 were specially picked as some sort of desirable stock for an eventual recolonization of the surface. We never really find out much about the experiment happening there, but now we know Vault-Tec was putting valuable people into pods.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Yeah, one of my favorite things about this show is that it isn't "a show that adapts Fallout", or "A show based on Fallout", it's... a Fallout show. It's a part of that universe, right along with the games. Not only is it a part, but it adds to the lore.

My fiance has never played Fallout and I was explaining some stuff along the way, and adding in my general lore thoughts... I had almost literally just mentioned something about an "iceberg theory" and then...

Spoiler

...the show went and confirmed my iceberg theory. I was telling her about how the lore is unclear on who started the Great War. Some blame the Chinese. Some blame the US. I had told her there were some theories that it was Vault-Tec who launched the first nuke...

And then like a few minutes later, Vault-Tec is talking about dropping the nuke.

Honestly the whole backstory here REALLY expands the lore. We now know that Vault-Tec wanted the nukes to fall, specifically to try to eliminate the undesirables on the surface and then repopulate with better people, playing a centuries-long game from the get go.

I do wish we got a bit more about the Enclave though. I want to know how they tied into Vault-Tec's plans. It had always seemed like Vault-Tec and Enclave her basically working together, but now it seems that the various corporations were working together and the Enclave was just sort of along for the ride. The Enclave seems to almost survive in spite of Vault-Tec, not because of it. Although there does at least to be some coordination, given how Head-Scientist-Guy knew details about the Vaults experiments and what not.

The backstory also somewhat seems to expand into Fallout 4's backstory. Makes me wonder if the people in Vault 111 were specially picked as some sort of desirable stock for an eventual recolonization of the surface. We never really find out much about the experiment happening there, but now we know Vault-Tec was putting valuable people into pods.

Speaking of that scene with Vault-tec

Spoiler: Spoiler

I loved how I was kinda name checked

 

[JD]

Lots to enjoy in episode 3.
The bookend flashbacks were pretty interesting.

Spoiler: Episode 3

Cooper modeling the Vault-Tech suit at the end was a surprise. I had assumed whatever we saw from his flashbacks would be more of average man on the street view of whatever happened around the bombs, but I'm now I'm thinking he might be more on the inside of the whole thing than I expected.
Thaddeus becoming Maximus squire didn't occur to me as a possibility until he showed up. I'm impressed they actually managed to almost make me sympathize and even kind like the asshole.
Even though I haven't played the games, The Ghoul's reference to getting sidetracked after the Gulper got away still made me think of the endless side quests you always get dragged into in open world games.