Fallout 4

[Mr Silver]

I've recently been replaying New Vegas and will probably replay FO3 once the possibilities in NV are exhausted!

It's got me thinking though, I think most fans of the series see NV as nothing more than a high quality expansion to FO3, given the lack of any major differences and the familiar graphics synonymous with the Gamebryo engine (the Creation engine has so much potential whilst retaining the best parts of the Gamebryo - just look at Skyrim!). Don't get me wrong, I think NV is awesome, but I really want to see Bethesda go in a new direction with FO4, perhaps expanding upon the Creation engine and doing away with some of the old pre-rendered backgrounds (which can be annoying given that they have been reused since Oblivion!) in favour of creating a completely new look.

I'd like to see a more expansive RPG system that is along the lines of Skyrim in terms of crafting and learning new skills alongside the traditional perks. As for setting, some people will say that it has to be New York, others demand the return of California and some people even want to see places outside of the USA. I personally am undecided, but I think that it has to be a new area in order to keep with the "progression in light of the apocalypse" theme that FO has demonstrated. Besides, NCR, BOS and the Enclave has been done to death!

Thoughts?

 

[Reverend]

I think it needs to stay in the (former) USA. The retro-50's Americana thing is pretty synonymous with the series. So maybe Chicago? The formerly occupied Canadian territories?

Perhaps they should set it earlier in the timeline? Say before Vault 13 opened, dealing with the early days of the Brotherhood of Steel? Or in the time gap between FO1 & 2 and the founding of the NCR?

Whatever they do I just hope they put more thought into the practicalities of the environmental design. FO3 didn't feel like it was set centuries after a nuclear apocalypse, more like a few decades at most. There was too much standing intact and too many cars (full of valuable parts and scrap) just lying around within easy walking distance of major settlements. Those things should have been stripped to their bolts very early on. Also, nature should have reclaimed a lot more of the old buildings. 'The Last of Us' appears to have gotten that part right at least.

 

[Mr Silver]

That's a very good point about FO3 still looking like a bomb had gone off in the last few decades rather than two hundred years. I suppose one may consider that DC had only recently began mass settlement given that the previous settlers before the likes of the Enclave and BOS moved in were tribals, ghouls and super mutants. It has also been stated that DC was severely devastated by nuclear weapons which means that quite a few areas would have been flooded with radiation for a considerable time, thus keeping most people out and explaining the amount of valuable parts still lying around.

I like your suggestion of Chicago, somewhere like this would be great for introducing new factions, after all Illinois is far away from BOS, NCR and possibly Super Mutants. I'm not sure about setting the game prior to Vault 13 opening, although something set between FO1&2 or even FO2&3, given that 80 years passed between the former two games and something like 35 years have passed between the latter two games - leaving plenty of gaps to fill in.

 

[Itisnotlogical]

I'd kind of like an opportunity to play as one of the "villains" of the series, like an Enclave soldier. I'm biased though, because I love Enclave power armor. It's one of the coolest looking pieces of equipment I've seen in a videogame.

It would be an interesting challenge trying to balance that though, since power armor + late-game weaponry (like Enclave soldiers would carry in Fallout 2) made you an unstoppable killing machine versus all but the toughest foes.

 

[Reverend]

That's a very good point about FO3 still looking like a bomb had gone off in the last few decades rather than two hundred years. I suppose one may consider that DC had only recently began mass settlement given that the previous settlers before the likes of the Enclave and BOS moved in were tribals, ghouls and super mutants. It has also been stated that DC was severely devastated by nuclear weapons which means that quite a few areas would have been flooded with radiation for a considerable time, thus keeping most people out and explaining the amount of valuable parts still lying around.

Well, in the game it's established early on that Megaton was founded in the immediate aftermath of the bombings. And by immediate I mean survivors and refugees took shelter in that impact crater while the bombs were still dropping all around them. It's said they later hiked out to the local airport to salvaged building material...which as I said makes no sense as there's still dozens of vehicles and intact building within sight of that location. All those cars would have been stripped for parts and all those wooden houses would have been turned into fuel just in the first year of habitation.

That's just one example of course, the game is full of them. I mean do we seriously believe that people are still eating pre-war food? Even if the country was ridiculously overstocked and even for allowing for a dramatically decreased population, most of it should have been gone by the end of the first year and whatever was left unscavenged should have spoilt not long after.

Right from the first game they were clearly trying to evoke Mad Max 2 but neglected to take into account that that movie was set *very* recently after it's "pox-eclipse."

I know, I know, it's a game about super mutants, glow-in-the-dark ghouls and a tree name Bob...but still...

 

[Mr Silver]

I think we need to be mindful that the world of Fallout is one that diverges from our own at some point in the 1950's. Where those pulp technology predictions of the future came true and as a result you have things like well preserved, although slightly irradiated two hundred year old edible food. That's how I justify the inconsistencies that one may encounter when playing the game.

Honestly, the only thing that annoys me about Fallout is the concept of the Ghouls. Don't get me wrong, in theory, exposure to radiation could cause lasting mutations that advance each generation resulting in giantism in smaller species such as reptiles (deathclaws and giant geckos), bears (yao gui) and possibly the odd conjoined cow (brahmin). I could even go with the Ghouls being part of a community that were exposed to high (non-fatal and non-sterilising) levels of radiation and as a result the later generations were afflicted with a major skin disorder, but I cannot accept the comic book cliche that exposure to beyond lethal levels of radiation gave a load of humans superpowers - namely the fact that the ghouls are over two hundred years old and are immune to radiation, in fact some of them are actually healed by it.

I can accept the super mutants, given that they came about as a result of genetic engineering, although the concept of how they came to be super mutants (dipped in a vat of goo) is slightly ridiculous.

 

[Reverend]

^I was under the impression that ghouls come from exposure to some pre-war mutagen (a version of the FEV?) that got loose during the bombing with the a lethal radiation dose acting as a sort of catalyst. Yeah, it's still comic book science, but it's better than nothing. I could however be misremembering.

As for the food, my objection that it'd still be edible centuries later but rather that there'd be any left uneaten and/or intact after so long. I forget what the exact numbers were, but I recall reading that at our general rate of consumption, if food production & delivery were to suddenly cease, everything in the warehouses would be gone inside of a week. So the idea that there'd be anything left after two centuries (even with a drastically reduce population) is *really* pushing the suspension of disbelief.

I suppose you could apply the same to just about anything pre-war from the guns & ammo to the clothing and abandoned homes. I've seen what the elements can do to homes left abandoned for even just a few years and those were brick buildings. The idea that houses made out of wood (read: desperately needed fuel) would still be around and in close proximity to a permanent settlement is just ludicrous...but then so are egomaniacal disembodied brains, underground Vaults that can maintain a population of only a few dozen and psychic shaman who can talk from beyond the grave.

 

[Mr Silver]

^I was under the impression that ghouls come from exposure to some pre-war mutagen (a version of the FEV?) that got loose during the bombing with the a lethal radiation dose acting as a sort of catalyst. Yeah, it's still comic book science, but it's better than nothing. I could however be misremembering

Some people have speculated this to be the case and it has conflicted with official FO canon which goes with the comic book style "exposure to massive amounts of radiation" explanation.

I'd be a lot happier if a pre-war mutagen was the explanation for the ghouls as it would at least give a reason (a comic book science one, but still a reason) for humans surviving exposure to levels of radiation that makes the Chernobyl incident look like a water leak.

Joshua Graham is my latest "wtf is going on here?!" Excusing the fact that he survived being set on fire and thrown off the Grand Canyon, the guy walks around in bandages... Yes, he walks despite being THROWN OFF THE GRAND CANYON!! I found Honest Hearts incredibly boring to begin with, but trying to work out how Joshua Graham is capable of performing the physical feats that he does, let alone how the guy is alive made it much more interesting!

 

[Sephiroth]

i'd like to see the courier and the lone wanderer meet, I believe it is mentioned in NV that the eastern part of the legion was being wiped out, I presume that it was being wiped out by a plucky little girl from vault 101 and her gatling laser wielding super mutant

 

[Mr Silver]

i'd like to see the courier and the lone wanderer meet, I believe it is mentioned in NV that the eastern part of the legion was being wiped out, I presume that it was being wiped out by a plucky little girl from vault 101 and her gatling laser wielding super mutant

I get the impression that the Lone Wanderer could be female canonically. Don't ask why, FO3 adapts perfectly to either.

 

[Winterwind]

I'd like to see Bethesda do the right thing and let Obsidian do FO4. And give them a real engine instead of screwing them with a crap engine plus rushing development time.

As for most fans thinking of NV as an expansion to FO3... that depends on when they became fans. Most fans of the original Fallout games, who didn't get their introduction via Bethesda's FO3, ignore FO3 and consider NV to be FO3.

 

[Mr Silver]

^ I've been a fan of the FO series from very near the beginning (Wasteland exempt, considering it's the spiritual predecessor). I assume you are referring to "Van Buren" or Interplay's version of Fallout 3 that was developed and 90% completed before Bethesda took over. A lot of elements of Van Buren were used for NV and because of that many fans consider NV to be the "true" FO3 - I disagree,

I see NV as being an expansion to FO3 in the sense that both are very similar in gameplay, contain most of the elements introduced in FO3 (items, creatures, interface, etc). Some parts of NV reference the events that play out in FO3 and therefore we have to see NV as a continuation of FO3. It's hinted in NV that the reason for the decline of the BOS and the extinction of the Enclave can be attributed in part to some of the events that occured in FO3. Of course, FO3 and NV take place on opposite sides of the USA, so that would mean that the Project Purity crisis caused problems nationwide - which could be fully addressed in FO4.

I cannot envision another FO game being made the relies upon VATS and AP along with turn based combat. Some fans are probably pissed off at the changes Bethesda made to the franchise, but I find the hybrid FPS/TPS along with the option to switch to VATS to give you an advantage during battles makes the gameworld much more engrossing and allows players to focus on quests and the storyline rather than worrying about turn based battle strategies.

 

[Winterwind]

I wasn't referring to Van Buren (which wasn't anywhere near 90% done). Writing isn't Bethesda's strength. Their take on the franchise was easily ignored. Obsidian is essentially Black Isle MK2 and they're simply better suited for the franchise.

 

[Sephiroth]

i'd like to see the courier and the lone wanderer meet, I believe it is mentioned in NV that the eastern part of the legion was being wiped out, I presume that it was being wiped out by a plucky little girl from vault 101 and her gatling laser wielding super mutant

I get the impression that the Lone Wanderer could be female canonically. Don't ask why, FO3 adapts perfectly to either.

It fits better canonically that the lone wanderer be female, especially as the female version of the wandered in FO3
is a lot more powerful.

 

[Davros]

I know some people don't like MMOs but a Fllout MMO is something I would enjoy.

 

[Mr Silver]

I don't know about a Fallout MMO - in principal it seems like an awesome idea given the possibilities created with a virtual economy, wherein an economy is vital to the world of Fallout. No more would a player have to rely on junk merchants with randomised bottle caps and the recurring inability to sell all the crap you collect because it's worth more than the entire merchant association can raise!

A virtual economy would solve several problems because players could start as members of a particular vault (and the option to change factions and associates later in the game) where all items sold by players are available to purchase by other players. The trading that takes place in a players vault or faction would only be able to take place there, hence a player would receive that factions currency (which could only be used to purchase stuff at their faction) whenever they sold stuff.

Outside of factions, merchants would work as normal with the ability to sell stuff that other players have sold them, but with the stipulation that a player can only work with his or her economic history with a particular vendor, which means that if a person before you buys a load of things from an NPC vendor and then you go to trade with them, you will be able to access whatever previous players have sold to the vendor, but you will not be able to then sell a load of stuff without the worry of the merchant running out of money because of the sheer amount that the previous player spent, you would only have access to a standardised amount based on your level and history with the vendor (you may be able to sell more if you have traded frequently with a particular vendor) ensuring that no players clean out a vendor of caps, thus denying the following player the opportunity to sell stuff for non-faction currency.

 

[Owain Taggart]

There's a post-apocalyptic MMO called Fallen Earth which I played for a short while. The main problem with it were the vast distances between cities with nothing in between, taking ages to travel between them.

That said, I think Fallout would work better if it stayed a single-player game, because then if you take it into an MMO environment, the question then would be how to make it interesting enough while still making it big enough for an MMO environment, as the scale would be quite a bit bigger than what we've seen from Fallout 3, I imagine. Just how do you make it interesting enough while maintaining the idea that it's a large dead world out there, not to mention the loads of people roaming about. That's the struggle I had with Fallen Earth.