Faith/Religion/Spirituality - Self-Denial? And Philosophy

[Gaith]

Fifty-eight voting members participating in the poll so far, and not a single Jew? This surprises me somewhat. Surely some of those atheist/agnostic voters would describe themselves as culturally/socially Jewish?

Why should atheists with a Jewish background click Jewish yet atheists with a Christian background click atheist?

They shouldn't. I'm not complaining; I just find the accumulation of "0" votes up there kinda striking.

Still, due to ethnicity and culture, one is far more likely to encounter a self-described "Jewish agnostic/atheist" than a "Christian agnostic/atheist".

 

[horatio83]

I don't. Marx, Freud and Einstein all came from a Jewish background and this background, what you could call the Jewish spirit plus the antisemitic alienation of Jews in Europe, surely influenced their thinking (it is not a coincidence that there three thinkers thought outside of the box) ... yet none of them ever called himself Jewish.
Same with contemporary secular Jews, it's always others who are obsessed with their Jewishness and not they themselves.

 

[RJDiogenes]

My mistake. If you would hypothetically liver forever you would sooner or later have done and seen everything, the world would become stale and flat and you would become the equivalent of brain-dead.
In short, immortality would collapse into mortality, if you could live forever you would end one day as a vegetable, as a zombie.

The Universe is a dynamic place; if you lived forever, there would always be something new to see or do. Not to mention that most of us like to revisit the things we really like. I can't imagine every getting tired of life.

 

[Amaris]

Personally, I'm not at all content with the idea of losing my consciousness. Not just because I've become accustomed to being alive, but also because I find it such a waste. All of that experience, information, the whole of my memories, all gone, dispersed to the four winds (Sorry, Mr. Homn, I am a bit of a romantic. ).

Sure, I won't be aware of it, the person whom I identify as me will not even care because he won't be there, and intellectually I understand that, but on a more visceral level, it does affect me. At the very least, I would like the human lifespan to be longer, even though it would still end.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

^Yeah, that's how I feel. I accept that I have no power over what actually happens but it doesn't mean I'm content with the idea. "A waste" yes, that sums it up.

 

[horatio83]

My mistake. If you would hypothetically liver forever you would sooner or later have done and seen everything, the world would become stale and flat and you would become the equivalent of brain-dead.
In short, immortality would collapse into mortality, if you could live forever you would end one day as a vegetable, as a zombie.

The Universe is a dynamic place; if you lived forever, there would always be something new to see or do. Not to mention that most of us like to revisit the things we really like. I can't imagine every getting tired of life.

You cannot fall in love for the thousandth time. It doesn't work like that.

 

[JarodRussell]

My mistake. If you would hypothetically liver forever you would sooner or later have done and seen everything, the world would become stale and flat and you would become the equivalent of brain-dead.
In short, immortality would collapse into mortality, if you could live forever you would end one day as a vegetable, as a zombie.

The Universe is a dynamic place; if you lived forever, there would always be something new to see or do. Not to mention that most of us like to revisit the things we really like. I can't imagine every getting tired of life.

You cannot fall in love for the thousandth time. It doesn't work like that.

Of course it does.



Brings up another point. Afterlife would be pretty boring I guess. I like sex. I like eating. I like sports. Without a body, I can't have any of these.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Yeah you'd be over it. The leaving, dying, disappointment would start to outweigh the joy pretty quick. Hey it happens to some jaded folk just in this short life. Me, I'd construct a philosophy which would allow me to honor the joys of the transient, but I'm an incurable optimist. And even that would undergo some major overhauls after a few hundred years I'd imagine.. drag it into a thousand and who knows what I'd be like. Hopefully as vibrant as Q but a lot of them were bored, bored, bored.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Personally, I'm not at all content with the idea of losing my consciousness. Not just because I've become accustomed to being alive, but also because I find it such a waste. All of that experience, information, the whole of my memories, all gone, dispersed to the four winds (Sorry, Mr. Homn, I am a bit of a romantic. ).

Sure, I won't be aware of it, the person whom I identify as me will not even care because he won't be there, and intellectually I understand that, but on a more visceral level, it does affect me. At the very least, I would like the human lifespan to be longer, even though it would still end.

I hope that whenever I die, I don't see it coming, so I don't have time to panic.

I know I won't miss being alive, since I expect nothing after death, just nonexistence.

The Universe is a dynamic place; if you lived forever, there would always be something new to see or do. Not to mention that most of us like to revisit the things we really like. I can't imagine every getting tired of life.

You cannot fall in love for the thousandth time. It doesn't work like that.

Of course it does.



Brings up another point. Afterlife would be pretty boring I guess. I like sex. I like eating. I like sports. Without a body, I can't have any of these.

Yeah, I'm not sure what horatio means. I have fallen in love quite a few times and I'm nowhere near tired of it.

Sex is fun, too.

 

[iguana_tonante]

My mistake. If you would hypothetically liver forever you would sooner or later have done and seen everything, the world would become stale and flat and you would become the equivalent of brain-dead.
In short, immortality would collapse into mortality, if you could live forever you would end one day as a vegetable, as a zombie.

The Universe is a dynamic place; if you lived forever, there would always be something new to see or do. Not to mention that most of us like to revisit the things we really like. I can't imagine every getting tired of life.

You cannot fall in love for the thousandth time. It doesn't work like that.

I love how you guys talk with such certainty of things that are intrinsically unknowable, ultimately meaningless, or both.

 

[gturner]

Fifty-eight voting members participating in the poll so far, and not a single Jew? This surprises me somewhat. Surely some of those atheist/agnostic voters would describe themselves as culturally/socially Jewish?

Why should atheists with a Jewish background click Jewish yet atheists with a Christian background click atheist?​

They shouldn't. I'm not complaining; I just find the accumulation of "0" votes up there kinda striking.

Still, due to ethnicity and culture, one is far more likely to encounter a self-described "Jewish agnostic/atheist" than a "Christian agnostic/atheist".​

　
The result wouldn't be surprising if you understand different approaches to polls.
　
Which of the following, closely matches your personal beliefs?:
　
Christianity. - not bad. Kind of familiar and the pot-luck dinners are good, plus you get Christmas presents. But not quite for me, either.
　
Judaism. That's the answer I had last Thursday. Hrm... I think I'll check the rest of the menu.
　
Islam. Well, the food is pretty much the same, but no, not really going there. The whole blow-yourself up thing doesn't appeal to me.
　
Hinduism. Ah, there's an idea. Bollywood dancing, lots of incense. The Hindus do some very interesting things with yogurt. Maybe a chutney or vindaloo.
　
Budhism: Now there's an answer that requires some serious contemplation.
　
Sikhism: Ah, finding true bliss in the wisdom of the perfect True Guru's kitchen, where the desires of the stomach are fulfilled. Hard to argue with that one.
　
General Spirituality: Seems awfully generic, kind of like a sampler platter at Olive Garden.
　
Atheist: If I wasn't hungry, why would I be browsing the menu?
　
Agnostic: Order an appetizer hoping I'll settle on a real answer by the time it arrives. Seems like more of a delaying tactic on the big question.

Other: What other? Another restaurant? A different poll?
　
Maybe I should check the thread and see what everyone else is having.
​

 

[RoJoHen]

Brings up another point. Afterlife would be pretty boring I guess. I like sex. I like eating. I like sports. Without a body, I can't have any of these.

Maybe in the afterlife you get a new body!

Or maybe you can float around having lots of incorporeal sex. You don't know how it works.

 

[T'Preea]

In some aspects, I do believe that religious beliefs were invented so people had someone or something to blame when crappy things happen. Or in order to have that sense that they'll have somewhere to go when they die. I think it's a load of old tosh because I believe in reincarnation. But, whatever floats their wee boats; I guess. I just refuse to let them force their own beliefs on me.

 

[thestrangequark]

The Universe is a dynamic place; if you lived forever, there would always be something new to see or do. Not to mention that most of us like to revisit the things we really like. I can't imagine every getting tired of life.

You cannot fall in love for the thousandth time. It doesn't work like that.

I love how you guys talk with such certainty of things that are intrinsically unknowable, ultimately meaningless, or both.

Their certitude must be comforting, though.

This is why I find philosophers so insufferable. It seems that in an attempt to be open-minded and deep, many become only more obtuse and dogmatic.

"Life is full of mystery, yeah
But there are answers out there,
And they won't be found
By people sitting around, looking serious,
And saying, 'isn't life mysterious?'"

 

[Amaris]

^Yeah, that's how I feel. I accept that I have no power over what actually happens but it doesn't mean I'm content with the idea. "A waste" yes, that sums it up.

Exactly. Yes, it's going to happen, no I don't have to like it. In fact, I hate it. I hate the whole idea. One of the reasons why I don't believe in a god is because it would be so cruel to create an infinite soul in a finite body and have it experience something such as death. Nasty business.

I hope that whenever I die, I don't see it coming, so I don't have time to panic.

I know I won't miss being alive, since I expect nothing after death, just nonexistence.

See, I'd actually like to know the specific time and date, even if it was unchangeable. As it stands now, it can happen anytime, anywhere, for any reason, and I won't even realized it's happened. That just sucks, at least to me.

 

[sonak]

About a personal, interventionist omnibenevolent God-I am atheist

About certain non-theistic spiritualities-I am agnostic, so I usually define myself as "agnostic" even though according to most definitions I'd be atheist

The world is too full of randomness, natural and Human cruelty to let me believe that there's a loving God pulling the strings.

 

[Mr_Homn]

About a personal, interventionist omnibenevolent God-I am atheist

About certain non-theistic spiritualities-I am agnostic, so I usually define myself as "agnostic" even though according to most definitions I'd be atheist

The world is too full of randomness, natural and Human cruelty to let me believe that there's a loving God pulling the strings.

Being and agnostic and being an atheist are not mutually exclusive. You can be an agnostic atheist. That's what I identify as.

 

[RJDiogenes]

My mistake. If you would hypothetically liver forever you would sooner or later have done and seen everything, the world would become stale and flat and you would become the equivalent of brain-dead.
In short, immortality would collapse into mortality, if you could live forever you would end one day as a vegetable, as a zombie.

The Universe is a dynamic place; if you lived forever, there would always be something new to see or do. Not to mention that most of us like to revisit the things we really like. I can't imagine every getting tired of life.

You cannot fall in love for the thousandth time. It doesn't work like that.

Nonsense. There's no limit on love, only the limit you put on yourself.

 

[Deckerd]

I didn't vote for MudShark's reason on the first page.

 

[horatio83]

The Universe is a dynamic place; if you lived forever, there would always be something new to see or do. Not to mention that most of us like to revisit the things we really like. I can't imagine every getting tired of life.

You cannot fall in love for the thousandth time. It doesn't work like that.

Nonsense. There's no limit on love, only the limit you put on yourself.

When you cannot really lose anything because you live forever you cannot really gain anything either. Everything loses its significance and becomes vain.
Don't take my word for it, look at how we portray immoral creatures in our art. The Greek gods or Q are bored and the games they play matter little to them. Tolkien's elves might be an exception as they do care about the worldly matters yet to a far less degree than mortal humans who are driven to live an intense life precisely because it is so short.

In short, even if there were some heavenly afterlife of eternal bliss it would suck because after some time eternal bliss boils down to being a living dead.