Fact-Checking Inside Star Trek: The Real Story
- Thread starter Harvey
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So it's fair to say TOS started in the 22nd Century and later TMP in the 23rd since THAT was when it was established.
Books don't count. They're retcons.
No, that doesn't leave enough time for stated historical events to occur before the time of Star Trek, the most obvious being that the S.S. Valiant reaches the edge of our galaxy 200 years before WNMHGB. The mid-2260's are about as early as we can go for the first season of TOS, and still fit everything in.
Thanks. I'm always skeptical about the particulars of memoirs for this very reason. In Nick Meyer's, for instance, he inverted a story he told in much earlier interviews in closer proximity to the event. I think Walter Koenig did something similar as regards some detail in a recent interview versus his diary entries in Chekov's Enterprise (but I cannot remember the particulars at this moment). This is why I, like Harvey, prefer sources contemporary to the events over later accounts.
For what it’s worth, Lora Johnson has posted that she was told by Paramount to include FASA stuff, etc. in Mr. Scott’s Guide - so it seems there was some effort by the 80s pre-TNG licensing office to keep all of the licensed material internally consistent, which is probably why the earlier dating scheme was so prevalent in that era.
That makes sense as far as it goes, but I still think it's misleading to use the word "prevalent," since we're talking about maybe 4-5 references out of dozens of books, and most of those being merely to events established in the SFC rather than to specific dates. The prevailing practice, by a huge margin, was to be as agnostic on the calendar date as TOS itself was (aside from being consistent about the 23rd-century setting).
What story would that have been, Maurice? Do you recall?
I am replying to your post because it is shorter than many others on the topic.
What does Star Trek Transcripts have to say about the problem?
""Where No Man Has Gone Before"
A couple of centuries means two centuries. Mitchell's words strongly imply that it is between 100 and 200 years since Tarbolde wrote the poem on the Canopius planet in 1996, and thus that the current year is sometime between 2096 and 2196 in the calendar used by Mitchell when he dates the writing of the poem.
Earlier, Kirk says:
So the S.S. Valiant was lost in interstellar space for over 200 years, and thus was lost in space before some year during the period of 1896 to 1996 in the calendar used by Mitchell in the other scene.
Nobody directly states what the date is during "The Squire of Gothos":
So Jager speculates, possibly without calculating how many centuries have passed since the Earth period in question. Anyway, the speculation obviously has many technical problems, and above all, is falsified by Trelane's knowledge of Earth names and languages, no matter how much Trelane seems to confirm it.
"Space Seed":
So Spock believes that the Botany Bay dates from the mid 1990s, or from about 1992.33 to 1996.66.
Kirk and Spock both say the ship from the 1990s is centuries old, thus putting the date after the 2090s and perhaps after the 2190s.
Two centuries after the 1990s would be the 2190s (plus or minus any rounding Kirk did) and two centuries after the mid 1990s would be 2192.33 to 2196.66, plus or minus any rounding Kirk did) in the calendar that Kirk and Spock use in "Space Seed".
So McCoy hasn't heard anything to make him suppose that the 1990s date, or the two centuries (plus or minus any rounding) interval, has been changed by new information, or he would have added that.
KIRK: What was the exact date of your lift off? We know it was sometime in the early 1990s, but
If Kirk believed it was sometime in the early 1990s (1990.00 to 1992.33) when he told Khan: "two Centuries we estimate." the date of "Space Seed" would be about 2190.00 to 2192.33 (plus or minus any rounding Kirk did) in the calendar used in "Space Seed".
And nothing has happened to make Kirk change his mind that Khan left Earth sometime in the period 1990.00 to 1996.66 so Kirk's "two hundred years" should put "Space Seed" in the period of 2190.00 to 2196.66 (plus or minus any rounding Kirk did), in the calendar used in "Space Seed".
Later they find out who Khan was:
This proves that Khan left Earth in 1996, or later. But Spock and Kirk have already made their estimates of when the Botany Bay left, and thus how long Khan was in suspended animation, so this later discovery of his identity doesn't affect the dates for "Space Seed suggested by their earlier comments. The possible date range of "Space Seed" is 2190.00 to 2196.66 (plus or minus any rounding Kirk did), in the calendar used in "Space Seed".
So how much rounding would Kirk do when stating a time interval? Nobody knows.
But to me it seems absolutely certain that Kirk would not have said "two centuries", or "two hundred years", if the interval was less than 100.00 years, or more than 300.00 years. Therefore the range of possible dates of "Space Seed" is between 2090.00 and 2296.66, in the calendar used in "Space Seed".
So earth did not have any form of faster than light travel until "about the year 2018", which may be about 2016 to 2020. If "Space Seed' happens between 2090.00 and 2296.66, in the calendar used in "Space Seed", the earliest possible dates for the introduction of faster than light star travel would be no earlier, and possibly later, than about 70.00 to 280.66 years before "Space Seed".
In "Tomorrow is Yesterday", set in a year specified as:
Therefore the year is 1966.66 to 1970.00, in the calendar used in "Tomorrow is Yesterday".
Later, returning to their own time:
If Spock meant they were approaching 100 years before their own year, their own year would be in or after 2066.66 to 2070.00. If Spock meant that they were approaching the calendar century they belonged to, that century would be the 21st or later century, in the calendar used in "Tomorrow is Yesterday".
Later:
This may mean that they traveled at least 50 years forward in time since Spock's said they were approaching their own century. Or, if Spock meant that they were approaching their calendar century, this may mean that their own year was at least 50 years after the beginning of their calendar century. Thu they might come from a year between 2051.00 and 2100.99, or 2151.00 and 2200.99, or 2251.00 and 2300.99, etc., etc., in the calendar used in "Tomorrow is Yesterday".
If that quip is chronologically accurate evidence, the year Kirk was in before being transported back in time should have been 200 years (plus or minus about 100 years allowing for rounding) after 1966.66 to 1970.00, or about 2066.66 to 2270.00. if Spock meant that they were approaching their calendar century when they still had over 50 years to go, the possible date range would be 2066.66 to 2100.99, or 2151.00 to 2200.99, or 2251.00 to 2270.00, in the calendar used in "Tomorrow is Yesterday".
In "Metamorphosis":
KIRK: Zefram Cochrane of Alpha Centuri, the discoverer of the space warp?
COCHRANE: That's right, Captain.
MCCOY: But that's impossible. Zefram Cochrane died a hundred and fifty years ago.
And:
If McCoy would say "a hundred and fifty years" when the interval was between 125.00 and 175.00 years, and if Cochrane was aged 87.00 to 88.00 years when he disappeared, Cochrane was born about 212.00 to 263.00 years before "Metamorphosis". If Cochrane was aged about 20.00 to 40.00 years when he "discovered the space warp", that would have happened about 243.00 to 172.00 years before "Metamorphosis". If it took 0.00 to 10.00 years for the first warp drive ships to be built and start operation, that would have been about 243.00 to 162.00 years before "Metamorphosis".
As for Star Trek: First Contact, the TNG characters obviously use a different calendar in that movie from the one the TOS characters use in "Space Seed". The always precise Spock says that Eugenics Wars saw whole populations bombed out of existence, and were "your last so-called World War". Thus no world war could have happened on earth after the Eugenics Wars. The TNG characters say that First Contact with Vulcans made Earth peaceful again. Therefore no world wars happened after First Contact.
And:
Therefore the Third World War that ended about 10 years before April 4, 2063 in the First Contact calendar, must be the Eugenics wars that ended about 1996 in the "Space Seed" calendar. Thus the year 2053 in the First Contact calendar should be about 1996 in the "Space Seed" calendar. The year 1 in the "Space Seed" calendar should be about the year 57 in the First Contact calendar. So 2063 in the First Contact calendar, with the first flight of the Phoenix and First Contact, should be about 2006 in the "Space Seed" calendar, and year 2018 in the "Space Seed" calendar, when space travel became much faster, should be about 2075 in the First Contact calendar, 12 years after First Contact, when the first warp drive ships went into service.
In "The Neutral Zone":
So the year is 2364, in the calendar used when Ralph Offenhouse lived and died.
If "About three hundred and seventy years ago" means between 365 and 375 years, Clare died about 1989 to 1999, in the calendar used when Ralph Offenhouse lived and died.
If "The Neutral Zone" happens between 2364.00 and 2365.00, in the calendar used when Ralph Offenhouse lived and died, and if "Encounter at Farpoint" happens less than 1.00 years earlier (which is an assumption), then "Encounter at Farpoint" happens between 2363.00 and 2365.00, in the calendar used when Ralph Offenhouse lived and died. If McCoy is 137.00 to 138.00 years old in "Encounter at Farpoint", he was born between 2225.00 and 2228.00, in the calendar used when Ralph Offenhouse lived and died. And if McCoy was aged 40.00 to 50.00 in TOS, TOS must happen sometime between 2265.00 and 2278.00, in the calendar used when Ralph Offenhouse lived and died.
Therefore, it seems naive to assume that any particular date given in Star Trek is given in the Gregorian calendar, and so calculations forwards and backwards from that date will not necessarily result in correct dates in the Gregorian calendar.
I don't. I know I posted it here way back when, but I looked and can't find what it was. Too much information!
I must say, I'm impressed with your work on the issue.
Absolutely. Nice job, MAGolding!
No way! I loved Bread and Circuses! Merrick although a traitor obviously felt great guilt in betraying his crew to the Proconsul and the Roman empire! His one act of bravery was to contact the Enterprise and save Kirk's landing party from death! I think that if Rome had still been standing it would have been very similar to what we were shown!
JB
Ah, well. Hope it comes to you again!
Agreed, JB! B&C is an underrated episode.
It is! I rewatched it just a couple of nights ago. Solid episode.
Yeah, that one is due for a rewatch on my part. It even has a "Scotty in command" element, always a highlight for me! The guest actors are very good too.
I'll meet you half-way, B&C is way better than "Spock's Brain".
Plus it's one of four episodes that has the 'contest' music that everyone takes the Mickey out of! 
JB
JB
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