'Extreme Measures' - the last great DS9 episode?

[DostoyevskyClone]

I just rewatched this episode last night - great stuff. It got me thinking about how this, for me, was the last true "quality" episode of the series: 'Dogs of War' was a downer for me due to the emphasis on the Ferengi and while 'What You Leave Behind' was a good, solid finale, it didn't match the overall quality of 'Extreme Measures.'

I just wondered if anyone else felt the same way...?

 

[Kegek]

I loved 'Dogs of War', I thought the Ferengi plot was a superb end for an often uneven series of comedy episodes, and a magnificent catharsis for Quark... so, uh, no, I don't.

 

[Navaros]

I agree that Extreme Measures was the last great episode of DS9, but considering there was only two episodes after it, that's not too shabby is it. :thumbsup:

Dogs of War was horrible in my view. Totally ruined the Ferengi race completely by turning them into carbon-copies of hewmons. That's the second biggest fubar of the whole series, second only to the fubaring of Dukat. Not sure how it was great for Quark either, he got royally screwed over even though he deserved much better.

WYLB in my view was way too rushed, in addition to having various other problems, to be great.

 

[od0_ital]

'Extreme Measures' was a cheap ass bottle episode that didn't succeed in anything interestin', unless ya are a fan of Bashir / O'Brien slash fic.

That Sloan's mind would resemble the corridors of DS9 & the Defiant was just one of many gawd awful aspects in this episode of the Final Chapter.

Another is the lack of any other storyline - up to this point, there were at least three plots runnin' through each episode to get to the finale, and immediately after this, the mutlip-plot returns for 'Dogs of War'.

'Extreme Measures' isn't the last great episode of the series. It's just a reminder that not even the best Trek series could still screw up in the middle of doin' something great.

 

[DS9Continuing]

DostoyevskyClone said:
This, for me, was the last true "quality" episode of the series.

I'm surprised to hear you say that, Dostoyevsky, because I thought "Extreme Measures" was one of the least popular episodes of the late series, especially as compared to powerhouses like "The Changing Face of Evil" and "Tacking into the Wind." Obviously you're welcome to your opinion, but I imagine it's a rare one. Sure, it was fun Bashir-OBrien romp, but it did rather speed-bump the flow of the building story.

Here's what I wrote when I re-plotted the entire seventh season of DS9 a few years ago:

722 - “Extreme Measures.”
.
A - plot :
Bashir receives a midnight visit from Director Sloan of Section 31, who quickly realises he has been drawn into a trap. With O’Brien and Garak’s help, Sloan is immobilised and his implanted suicide device deactivated. Bashir tries to persuade Sloan to give him the cure to Odo’s disease, and they argue about the relative merits of saving the Founders, comparing Section 31 to the Tal Shiar and the Obsidian Order. The discussion grows to encompass all of Bashir’s beliefs in the Federation, which he believes has no place for Sloan’s organisation. Sloan calls Bashir naïve and arrogant for thinking he knows better than the original creators of the Federation. They realise neither will win their argument, and Bashir is running out of time.
.
Garak tells the doctor he will soon have to use harsher methods. Bashir produces a Romulan mind-scanner, illegal in the Federation. With O’Brien as his good angel and Garak as his bad, Bashir is forced to interrogate and torture Sloan until he gives up the information. Sloan taunts Bashir with promises of spy information on everyone, but the doctor presses on. Sloan is on the verge of death before he gives Bashir the cure, at which point Bashir stops, but the procedure is too far along and Sloan dies. Bashir gives the cure to Odo, who begins to recover.
.
B - plot:
Kira, Odo and Garak have returned from Cardassia. While Garak helps Bashir, and O’Brien works on the Breen weapon, Kira stays by Odo’s bed. The changeling, who lies disintegrating in agony, tells her to leave him - he doesn’t want her to watch him die. She at first refuses, but finally agrees and heads back to Cardassia with Garak and Damar, without knowing if Bashir has found the cure or not.

I thought it could have been the rival to "Chain of Command" or "Intersections in Real Time" - an intense interrogation where Bashir is forced into doing horrible things because of the larger issues of the war, which is exactly what Section 31 do, but of course he thinks he's better than them because he always does.

How dare he say what’s best for the entire Federation, when he’s an illegal officer in the first place? What does 31 say about the so-called “enlightened” humanity? Plus it would nicely use Bashir's two major friendships, Garak and O'Brien, as opposite sides of his character - the mysterious spy and the honest working man. All of these things would have made the episode much better than it was, IMO.

* I also added an extra episode in between "Extreme Measures" and "The Dogs of War" called "Telling Lies," which dealt with some unresolved storylines like blind Dukat on the streets of Bajor, plus all the non-Ferengi storylines from "The Dogs of War."

* The Ferengi stuff I moved to its own episode earlier in the season so that it wouldn't interfere with the war stories.

* "The Dogs of War" I replotted to be basically the first half of the existing "What You Leave Behind," so that more of WYLB could be dedicated to the Sisko-Dukat-Winn triangle, which I also thought was badly handled at the end.

 

[cultcross]

Personally I loved 'Extreme Measures', its probably my favourite of the 'final arc' episodes. Granted, the conceit that the pathways of Sloan's mind look like DS9 is quite dodgy, but within the confines of saving budget for the finale, I think they did a very interesting episode. It's one of Bashir's strongest, imho.

 

[anti-matter]

It just an OK episode with me since I was never a fan of the Section 31 gimmick....and the whole Slone dying thing was just too overdone for me.

 

[Photon]

Didn't like it. WYLB is much better.

 

[Apogeal Alpha01]

Starting off I liked the premise very much. As soon as they failed to anticipate something as basic as a suicide tooth in a clandestine agent the likes of Sloan, it went downhill. How could our genius Doctor not have anticipated it, or if he did, missed it?

Sloan’s remorse at not being more a part of his family's life was a little interesting. It humanized him and I like to think of him as a patriot. And of course, the tease at the end. Wouldn’t you like to know all the secrets of the leaders of the Federation, all right there in this little room. Juicy stuff!

 

[Pegaritaville]

anti-matter said:
It just an OK episode with me since I was never a fan of the Section 31 gimmick....and the whole Slone dying thing was just too overdone for me.

Agreed.

And besides, I thought "The Dogs of War" was a great. Due to circumstances beyond my control, it was the only episode I missed during DS9's original run (didn't actually get to see it until DS9 came out on DVD). In some ways, it's even more difficult to make a good penultimate episode (you need to set things up for the finale), but "The Dogs of War" did a terrific job of laying the foundation for the finale.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I don't care much for EM. I thought it was rather anti-climatic. I was hoping for a more straightforward interrogation type of episode rather then "it's all in character X's mind" episode.

 

[toughlittleship]

I loved both The Dogs of War and What You Leave Behind and liked Extreme Measures.

I think WYLB is up there with All Good Things, which I felt was ruined a bit by Q and some insipid technobabble about anti-time. I love that episode (the death of Troi = gold) but I'll chose What You Leave Behind over it any day.

 

[Evil Twin]

"Extreme Measures" is the weakest episode of the final arc. You're crazy!

 

[DS9Continuing]

Apogeal Alpha01 said:
Sloan’s remorse at not being more a part of his family's life was a little interesting. It humanized him and I like to think of him as a patriot.

Had there been more time, perhaps. But this was a guy we'd only seen twice before, and one we were supposed to be seeing as a bad guy, and frankly at this point in the series we couldn't afford to waste time with "everyone has regrets" and meeting this guy's wife. And yet we did. There were far more important things to be concentrating on.

 

[MyCylon]

Personally, I think Extreme Measures is easily the weakest episode of the final ten and far, far from DS9's 'great' episodes. What bothers me most is two things:

- Wandering around in someone's head the way it's portrayed here (which is like S3 did). It just never seemed very believable to me, and it just seems very gimmicky IMHO in the middle of the war and the other ongoing story lines. This is something I want to see on TNG, not on DS9, if I may say so.

- Pacing. Some of the episodes I loved most on DS9 were those that effortlessly juggled a set of stories and kept you interested in every one of them. I think examples are By Inferno's Light/In Purgatory's Shadow, some of the S6 openening episodes, Image in the Sand/Shadows and Symbols, as well as most episodes in the final chapter. Starting with Penumbra, the whole thing just seems to be building. And suddenly, there's Extreme Measures. And while there's interesting themes, questions and character moments here, I just felt myself wanting some of the momentum from earlier on as well as the other stories.

I think Dogs of War is SUBSTANTIALLY better though it's probably what I'D consider the second weakest episode. I think they should have wrapped up the Ferengi stuff before the final chapter, actually. But most everything else that's in Dogs of War is excellent IMHO.
I think WYLB is definitely the last great DS9 ep. It's not perfect, it's not THE best episode but I think it's definitely a powerhouse with a satisfying conclusion to the show.

 

[Saxman1]

I thought except for the "visiting Ezri's family" and a couple others I'm blanking on, season 7 of DS9 was magnificent and I did love "Extreme Measures." Compare DS9's season 7 to TNG's - yikes (and I say this as a big TNG fan)!

 

[NKemp3]

Its a horrible episode, especially considering its following the TRULY last great episode of DS9: "Tacking Into the Wind".

I've ranted about this episode in the past and won't go down the entire road again. To sum it up though how could you go from those previous Final Arc eps that juggled multiple and important arcs and come up with this episode that had just one single plot? And a ridiculous sci-fi/high concept plot that was better suited for a non-sweeps episode of TNG or VOY? Doing this meant ignoring all the other storylines that had been building which killed momentum. Not only that....this episode centered around two-lone characters. And those characters weren't Sisko, Kira or Odo. It was Bashir and O'Brien. That's like Babylon 5 deciding to halt the momentum of its wonderful 5th season finale arc wrapup by devoting a mostly pointless character episode to Dr Franklin, Vir and Zack! WTF? And TPTB admitted the reason this was done was because all season long they wanted to do one more O'Brien-Bashir buddy story. Hey, that's fine. But do it earlier in the season. If they could not have fitted in early in season seven (which is hard to believe considering some of the wasteful episodes during the early stretch of the final year), then they should not have done it at all; not at the expense of the Final Chapter.

Oh, and lets get rid of a great character like Sloan in an anti-climatic, uninteresting fashion to boot.

This episode was written by the same two guys who gave us "Sons and Daughters" during the opening season six arc, the lone stinker of that arc as well. I heard they got better after moving to BSG.

 

[DS9Continuing]

Saxman1 said:
I thought except for the "visiting Ezri's family" and a couple others I'm blanking on, season 7 of DS9 was magnificent and I did love "Extreme Measures." Compare DS9's season 7 to TNG's - yikes (and I say this as a big TNG fan)!

The epsiodes I would have lost were "Chrysalis," "The Emperor's New Cloak," "Field of Fire" and "Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang." I would have replaced them with Kira-vs-Romulans in its own episode, Rom-the-Nagus in its own episode, one about Jake dealing with his father's role as Emissary, and an extra one added to the big arc (as detailed above).

"Prodigal Daughter" can stay, but it would need significant beefing up, as would "Covenant" and "Extreme Measures."

 

[startrekwatcher]

The entire final season could have been a 26 episode Final Chapter as opposed to just ten. Really there were several other things that could have been explored.

I don't know if it was the writers intention or not but I always had the sneaking suspicion that it was Dr. Mora that created the changeling virus. Think about it--we know he was on Earth working on ways to help Starfleet, he had the most knowledge of changelings, his close bond to Odo would explain why Odo wasn't suppose to be anything more than a carrier, plus based on what we've seen it is very plausible he wouldn't hesitate to do something like this. It would have been interesting to have seen Odo learning of this.

I would have also liked to have heard more about Garak's past and his connection with Dukat. I didn't mind the Ferengi getting closure so late in the series. Surprisingly it was rather pleasant and it was probably best not to devote an entire episode to it.

As for Extreme Measures I thought it was boring. Like others have mentioned it brought everything to a halt. I was more interested in the Dominion machinations, the resistance etc than a standalone sci-fi episode of the week that felt very generic compared to the series-specific events of the Final Chapter.

Plus I was never a fan of OBrien and Bashir. I actually found the guest stars were more interesting. In fact I really wasn't that disappointed that the final chapter focused more on Martok, Founder, Weyoun, Garak, Damar, Winn and Dukat than Our Crew.

 

[DS9Continuing]

startrekwatcher said:
I don't know if it was the writers intention or not but I always had the sneaking suspicion that it was Dr. Mora that created the changeling virus.

That was the original intention, yes. And it was their initial idea for this show. But then they changed their minds, but admitted that their first idea might have ended up better.