Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by PsychoPere, Dec 22, 2010.
Yeah...I just don't think they pulled it off very well.
Of the new characters introduced for Season 4, I liked Sikozu, but strongly disliked Noranti and Grayza. Grayza is such a ridiculous villain. How the heck are the viewers supposed to take her seriously?
All in all, I thought the show suffered a massive downturn in quality in Season 4. Yeah, it gets a bit better at the end, but is still markedly worse than the quality of Season 3. (Though, yes, there are a few gems, like "Unrealized Reality".)
When I watched the show in its initial run, and saw the "Into the Lion's Den" 2 parter, I was like "OK, this looks like a massive turning point for the show. Scorpy's wormhole project is over, and the PK's pursuit of Crichton for his wormhole knowledge is presumably over, and we'll now move on to the next part of the story."
Problem is, Season 4 didn't involve moving on with the story. It's basically just a rehash of the previous seasons' plotlines, except with everyone's motivations made more confusing.
So, I've been steadily continuing my (first-time) Farscape viewing. I just finished Season 3 -- Holy frelling dren. That was quite the ride, especially towards the end with the "Into the Lions' Den" two-parter. Some truly epic television there. And that finale... well, I'm glad I don't have to wait months to find out what happens next.
Although after skimming through this thread, I'm a little apprehensive about what's to come. From my own impressions, I would find it difficult to imagine how they could top Season 3, and it would appear that the general consensus is that Season 4 is a noticeable step down in quality.
Ah well, that's certainly not going to stop me from watching it, of course. Besides, I've found that even less-than-stellar Farscape is still pretty good. In that regard, it's kind of like pizza... or sex.
I'm glad I listened to you guys and decided to give this series a go. Thanks.
While I agree with much of what you said (I also thought granny was annoying and Grayza too oversexed to take seriously) I thought the story line itself was a natural progression from previous seasons.
Season 1 : John gets the wormhole info downloaded into him; Scorpy finds it hidden
Season 2 : John and Aeryn spend a lot of time running from Peacekeepers while gaining more info on the conflict between the Peacekeepers and Scarrans
Season 3 : John starts to get a handle on some of the wormhole info and stops running from Scorpy and instead goes on the offensive.
Season 4 : John starts to master the wormhole knowledge and now has to deal with the possible Scarran threat that he may have helped make worse in Season 3
Peacekeeper Wars : The final resolution of the war between the two races and John and Aeryn's ultimate fate.
Folks we have another Farscape newbie at our hands....Welcome to Farscape madness Daneel...Right now I am doing my own rewatch ( just finished Home on Remains in Season 2 ) I think Farscape is the series that defines EPIC in space opera genre on television.....I call it "Australian Star Wars" Nothing comes closer in its excellent production values and writing....
In my opinion Season 4 is very good. Not as stellar as Season 3 maybe but it holds its own quite well especially in its excellent second half. After magnificent story arc of Season 3 , next season seems a little bit lacking , especially with stand alone style episodes in the beginning (Sci-Fi Channel asked for that ) and with some new characters. It is unavoidable. Farscape is a series that always takes risks ( risk taking in television. Unheard in networks nowadays ) There is no backing to status-quo or reset button. ( most tv audience would expect these ) Besides as you mentioned even less-than-stellar episodes in Farscape standarts are much better than anything in tv based sci-fi.....
Send your reviews....
Grayza has mindcontrolling boobsweat.
What's not to like?
Brilliantly acted scene, but at the time I didn't know what else to say about it. I still don't, really, except that it was like a kick to the chest. Since I've already seen PKW, it probably wasn't as effective as it would have been not knowing about Aeryn's pregnancy, but it was still pretty powerful since it ended with a stranded Crichton.
I've been busy!
- "Some Time Later," eh? I would've preferred a more specific figure, but I suppose it doesn't really matter that much. I think this extended period of isolation has made Crichton even crazier than normal...
- Seeing an old, dying Pilot & Leviathan is a rather sad way to open the season. I do like, though, that we've now seen two more Leviathans in the last couple episodes, since I always like seeing more of these living ships.
- No choice but to love that Crichton taught the 1812 Overture to a DRD. Perfectly fits his sensibilities that he'd teach some piece of music to a DRD at some point; a little surprised it took him this long, but I suppose he didn't have much else to do while onboard Elack.
- Did I miss something? How did Chiana and Rygel end up back at the Leviathan burial space? Weren't they onboard Moya when she was pulled into the wormhole at the end of last season?
- Sikozu is smoking hot with her hair down.
- Not a top-tier season premiere, but solid enough to keep me generally entertained. I found Elack's decision to sacrifice his dream of dying in the Leviathan sacred place in order to ferry Crichton and his companions to safety to be very touching. Crichton does have a knack for inspiring loyalty.
What Was Lost Part I: Sacrifice
- I feel again like I missed something, because there's footage in the "Previously on..." segment that I do not recall: Grayza promoting Braca to captain, and Braca saying something to Scorpy about him no longer having a ship to command. I assume these were deleted scenes from a previous episode, used here to quickly bring viewers up-to-speed on the power dynamics between those three.
- Nice to see most of the crew reunited already. As I said for the season three finale, I didn't want another prolonged split-crew situation.
- How deliciously ironic that Scorpy would be subjected to the Aurora Chair after previously forcing Crais into it. Nice symmetry there, too, that each major villain has been forced into the Chair by the new rising villain. His torture and subsequently being treated like a dog can, I think, be summed up by the phrase "how the mighty have fallen."
- Like D'Argo, I was disappointed that Jool didn't defend him to Vella, but even more disappointed by her subsequent conversation with D'Argo. I had come to like her over the course of the previous season, but I suppose she hasn't overcome her culture's inherent arrogance towards other species.
- I know this is only her second appearance, but I'm not really "feeling" Grayza as a villain, despite the low level she has brought Scorpy down to. Also, I'm a little creeped out by her having sex with Crichton; she's physically attractive, sure, but gives off such a creepy vibe, which so far seems to be the only thing going for her in villain terms.
- I'm already tired of Noranti blowing shit into Crichton's face. Please tell me this decreases in later episodes.
- Overall a pretty lame episode.
What Was Lost Part II: Resurrection
- Damn, is Scorpy even tougher than I thought, to still be alive after a point-blank pulse pistol blast. Naturally I'm glad he's not dead; I would've been worried about things getting boring without him around.
- The short scene with Chiana, Jool, and Sikozu taking out the guards at their cell gave me a good chuckle. Given their scenes during the firefight with the PK soldiers, I'm liking the dynamic of these three working together.
- Shudder. Grayza and Crichton really need to stop having sex. I hope she doesn't get pregnant; last thing Crichton needs is a third kid in the Territories. Got to love the way he left her tied up, though.
- This part was better than part one, primarily for the segments where the crew had to deal with the PKs. The segment of the episode back on the planet, after the PKs had left, again failed to hold much interest for me, like part one.
- Goodbye, Elack and Pilot. We didn't know you for long, but I respect and admire your sacrifice for the sake of your last impromptu crew. Your actions speak well of the Leviathan and Pilot races.
- I take it, then, that Sikozu was introduced to, at least in a sense, "replace" Jool on the crew since Jool is staying on this planet. I'll miss her; she really did grow on me by the end of her season on the show, and I think her relationship with D'Argo felt more "right" (for lack of a better word as I type this) than his relationship with Chiana did. (Chiana always seemed too spirited and carefree for D'Argo.)
Yeah I don't remember how they explained that either, and "previously on..." with deleted scenes is very very weird,
I really like Jool and the small version of her sucks. Would have made a really cute couple with D'Argo.
Eh... Jool got better, but I'll never say she 'grew' on me. Granted, though, as you say, she did ultimately make more sense as a pairing for D'Argo than Chiana did. Chiana just isn't the type that will likely ever settle down, and D'Argo... well, I think it's obvious at this point that, warrior machismo aside, he's ready to settle down and have a life away from this... Hell, in a way, you'll see over the course of the season that, even though they're all loyal to one another, there's a growing sense of needing to get stop running and to get their lives started again.
But yes, Sikozu does essentially replace Jool, and while she has her strengths over Jool (she doesn't scream as much, for one), she ends up with other faults (she's just as bitchy and arrogant, but never actually recovers from it, unlike Jool). She also has a couple of major character faults that seem interesting at first, but quickly grow to be infuriatingly irritating once the writers start using them at every opportunity. I won't go into the details of said faults (very spoilerific), but I think everyone here knows what I'm talking about, and I think you'll quickly come to know exactly what I'm talking about once you see it.
Sikozu, however, does end up with one relationship that proves to be very, very fascinating, if a bit squicky, that does somewhat redeem her in my eyes... just not quite enough to justify her existence to me... maybe with another season and perhaps some character development, but in the end, she just didn't grow enough to interest me much.
She is cute as hell, though... ;-)
Yeah, this two parter was kinda weak, and every time I watch it, I can only vaguely follow the plot, not because it's difficult, I just have a hard time caring... there's interesting bits, but not nearly enough of them and they're too far apart to keep me interested in between.
Good news is, you've got one less than stellar episode (the ever contentious 'Lava...'), then you start getting to the first really good ep of the season (Promises), a couple of decent eps, a couple of bad ones, then solid awesome straight to the end... it'll be worth it... :-)
But yeah, the beginning of this season is just weird... as though there were a missing episode or something that we never got to see... I don't think I ever actually heard the official story for that, but it does make the early eps rather jarring.... unfortunately, unlike Season 2, they never really circle back around to show everything that happened
Just before they appeared, while John and Sikozu were hiding from the Grudeks, we heard Chiana's voice over the comms, saying "John, are you there?" or some such. No, they weren't on Moya when it was sucked into the wormhole - only Pilot, Jool and Noranti were. Rygel was going to try to get his throne back and Chiana was going to try to contact the Nebari resistance.
Correct, and correct. Not the ideal solution, but I guess you work with what you've got.
How fucking useless are PK guards? They stand there while three prisoners whisper conspiratorially only about two feet away from them, and yet they're surprised enough for the girls to get the drop on them? Retards. The UT version of a high-five is fun though.
Kinda-sorta-ish-little-bit. Raelee Hill originally auditioned for the role of Grayza. They didn't like her for that, but they did like her enough to specifically create the previously unplanned role of Sikozu so that they could keep her around. This happened regardless of any plans for Jool.
Now, as it happens, Jool was always supposed to stay behind on Arnessk at some point. It just wasn't originally supposed to happen at this point. But Tammy MacIntosh got another job and wanted to take temporary leave, so they moved it up a bit.
So, yes, Sikozu did effectively replace Jool, although it wasn't actually intended as such.
As to the "What Was Lost" two parter, I agree that it's somewhat hard going, but it's actually one of the most vitally important stories in the whole show in the long term. It ends up explaining so much about what's actually going on in the Farscape universe that it is completely indispensable. What puts people off is that it's written and directed somewhat confusingly and mysteriously, as if we're all having one big communal Granny vision.
God they should have just kept her off the show! She likes Spory so much, then she should be locked up with him! it's clear she is only there to be a trouble maker and that's just stupid. It's clear the show peaked at the 2nd and 3rd season, but damn, talk about falling fast.
I also like how they connect the aliens' history back to Earth, but it was just thrown into such a poor episode is such a poor way you couldn't tell.
And John Quixote is crazy and I loved that, but it still didn't seem as fun as the previous crazy episodes. Was that really Stark? I don't get the point of the game and what was real and what the point really was.
The end of "Dog with Two Bones" has brief audio clips of D'Argo, Rygel, and Chiana saying goodbye to Crichton, right before we see Aeryn's goodbye in her prowler.
It was also one of the points of that episode. "I can't go to Earth, and my friends are all leaving." Chiana and Rygel left together on a transport pod, and D'Argo was about to leave in his ship to go hunt his brother-in-law.
You have to infer a bit, but Chiana and Rygel had already left the Moya by the time she got gobbled up by the wormhole.
I finally finished "I, ET". I still thought it was a great episode. Maybe it's my love of Contact or something. The chick who looks like a more homely version of Jodie Foster. Single Mom. I think it's somehow fitting that the first planet that we see in Farscape (assuming that this is really considered ep2 based on production order and not the viewing date order) is an Earth-like planet. Which will set off something in John.
Loved the ending tag. Aeryn comes by and says "Don't tell me you are going to miss this rock!" as Crichton is watching the planet recede as Moya speeds away. Crichton pauses and says "No... not *this* rock!".
I think it effectively captures how while the other prisoners have lost somethings too, Crichton has lost everything that he knew.
I watched the Perfect Murder episode, it's not THAT bad. It's a season 4 episode so it's not that great.
I watched the one after it too, it's just silly.
These episodes would be fine if it were still season 1 when we are getting to know the characters, but it's season 4 and it feels like they are just stalling to the end. I thought season 4 would be like a new beginning to the show, the new characters come in and they have a new gameplan. Stand alone episodes in season 1 were fun and goofy and were built on in the later seasons. Now it just seems stereotypical sci-fi, and if kind of boring considering how crazy and different Farscape is. Like the wheels in the plotlines are just spinning in the snow.
Did someone say that the season gets better in episode 11 onward? I'm up to episode 10 and it's still.... ehhhh...
You're not at Unrealized Reality yet. Once you are, there is a significant change to the season, starting with those three episodes.
Exactly. A large part of the reason we forgive Season 4 for its faults is that we know the rockiness of the beginning of S4 has to do with SciFi meddling, trying to push for more accessible standalone stories that, frankly, the showrunners weren't interested in doing at this point. They'd set up some excellent arcs in S3, and the best parts of S4 are the arc-based stuff that start abruptly at Ep 11, Unrealized Reality.
Overall, honestly, the weak episodes at the start of Season 4 aren't really bad (even, admittedly, A Prefect Murder), they're not even especially weak (the character interactions are well written, and there are plenty of amusing moments) it's just that they're episodes that would have been a better fit during Season 1 or 2, where standalones were a bit more plentiful and necessary to build character interaction. The first half of Season 4 is an exercise in frustration, though as you sit through these standalones impatiently waiting for the plot to get started already.
I don't understand why everyone is so hard on Season 4. Yes there had been a significant change in storytelling in first half , being some of them stand alones...but was there any other option ? Sci-Fi Channel demanded it...Besides some of them like "Promises" or "I Shrink Therefore..." were quite good. And I find this approach somewhat fresh in story arc telling...They took their time in reuniting everyone and Moya together.....Under the circumstances it is somewhat realistic . If everyone got together at first episoe then began running away it would be lame.
As for the new characters well nobody could top Scorpy as antagonist so it is normal that Grayza seems toned down. As a character she will develop more. Sikozu is supposed to be unlikable. She was written that way. Don't expect a second Zhaan like type. And I even like Noranti....Her aloof but wise behavior is sometimes amusing.
My problem with Grandma is one sec she is a drug dealer and another she is a crazy old woman. I like the old woman, I don't like the "John's druggie" part. Small Jool I just don't like at all, she should have never have been added.
Thanks to lvsxy808 and RoJo for reminding me about which members of the crew had already left Moya prior to the wormhole appearance. I feel a little silly for having forgotten already that they had already left, rather than preparing to follow through on their plans. Looking back now at my thoughts on "Dog with Two Bones," I was apparently clear on the crew splitting up when I watched it, making me feel even more ridiculous for having already forgotten. Oh well, I guess...
Also, yes, lvsxy808, I have to agree with you re: PK guards. They seem to be even more worthless than Star Wars stormtroopers! And thanks for the behind-the-scenes information; very interesting to read.
Lava's a Many Splendored Thing
- I know that I'm only four episodes into the season and that it would cheapen her departure in "Dog with Two Bones" if she had already rejoined the others, but I miss Aeryn.
- DRD-1812 is still around, eh? I was expecting that DRDs would die when their Leviathan died.
- Best part of this episode: Crichton and D'Argo's argument about Crichton's plan to take out the enemy leader with a rock. Other than that, the episode just barely held my attention. Pretty boring overall, really.
- Well... that wasn't quite the Crichton/Aeryn reunion I was hoping for. Scorpius onboard Moya is going to be... different, to say the least, I'm sure, and it's yet more symmetry between Crais and Scorpy. Unlike Crais, though, I can't imagine Scorpy ever becoming a reliable ally.
- I can't describe how good it is to see Moya, Pilot, and Aeryn again. I'm very happy the crew is back together again. I think the character dynamics of having everyone together again in this episode is why the first few felt so odd. And, of course, the return of Moya means the return of Crichton's snazzy PK uniform.
- Peculiar that Scorpius would now want to help Crichton by finally and fully removing the neural clone. I wouldn't be willing to trust either, but I think I'd be a little more inclined to trust Harvey at this point since he has as much interest in Crichton staying alive as Crichton himself does. I'm willing to believe Scorpius's claim that he's on Moya to safeguard Crichton, but, as he himself said to Sikozu, he also has other plans - Scorpy never stops scheming. I'm assuming the neural clone may somehow factor into those other plans.
- This was a much more entertaining episode than the last few. As I said before, I think a large part of this is due to simply having the entire crew interacting with one another again. The last few weren't necessarily bad episodes on their own (well... "Lava" was, as far as I'm concerned), but they weren't as well done either as most of the split-crew episodes of the previous season, so those two issues taken together made the episodes feel uneven and less than satisfying.
- The start of an apparent alliance between Sikozu and Scorpius will, I'm sure, result in many issues throughout this season. I'd like to learn more about Aeryn's time as an assassin. Pilot's suggestion of a "spokesman" to provide a singular voice for the crew makes a lot of sense, and I'm surprised he and Moya put up with the cacophony of voices, demands, and differing opinions for so long without posing such a suggestion before now.
- I am glad the crew didn't try a rotating captaincy as a long-term solution; that would've been... tricky. D'Argo feels like the right choice, even though Crichton has pretty much called the shots since he arrived on the scene.
- Damn, the shot of the plant all over and inside Pilot was disturbing.
- Sikozu and Noranti make a fairly amusing duo doing the type of job that Zhaan once would've fulfilled, trying to figure out a way to kill the plant.
- Rygel's feelings of guilt and responsibility for the predicament occurring on his watch as captain speaks well of him once again.
- This was an okay standalone episode. I don't think I'll remember much of it when I get a few more episodes down the line, but it was enjoyable enough while I watched it. The best parts of this episode, though, was the interplay between the characters, particularly the continuing rollercoaster of the Crichton/Aeryn relationship - all things that redeem, at least in part, even bad entries in the series.
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