Everyone else goes faster than voyager
- Thread starter groo667
- Start date
That was one of the problems I had with the Kazon. A full season after Voyager had appeared in Kazon space and pointed themselves toward Earth, they're still dealing with them? And not just other members of the Kazon-Nistrim or other Kazon sects, but with the very same Kazons. Given the technological superiority of Voyager, even in its damaged state, it should easily have left Kazon space in a year. And can you imagine an expanse of inhabited space a warp-year across with no significant supply of water?
Having word of Voyager out-pace them isn't as troubling, after all subspace transmissions travel much, much faster than any ship. Still, there was simply no reason to run into the same individuals multiple times. The Borg are an exception given their superior technology.
Having word of Voyager out-pace them isn't as troubling, after all subspace transmissions travel much, much faster than any ship. Still, there was simply no reason to run into the same individuals multiple times. The Borg are an exception given their superior technology.
Neelix said it best: "These people are natural-born idiots, if you ask me. They don't appreciate what they have here. This ship is the match of any vessel within a hundred light years and what do they do with it? 'Well, er, let's see if we can't find some space anomaly today that might rip it apart!'" 
I think I'll make that my sig for awhile.
I think I'll make that my sig for awhile.
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We might appreciate the fact that the Kazon were described as nomads, and had spread themselves out across what was former Trabe space and beyond. Their "empire" might well have been larger than the Federation. Also, being nomads, the specific Kazon that had been humiliated by our heroes would see little reason not to pursue the Voyager until they got their revenge (and got their hands on all that highly motivating supertech...).
Moreover, for the first season or so, the Voyager still suffered from the original "Caretaker" damage, having not yet found a safe haven for repairs and proper replenishment. That would cut down their speed a bit, both in terms of engine trouble, and in terms of having to steer clear of enemies when the ship wasn't in peak fighting condition.
So I don't really have a problem with the Kazon persisting for the first two years. And even the omnipresent Vidiians were somewhat excusable (their final "Coda" appearance was not for real, mind you). And the Talaxians were said to have the wanderlust bad, so that's not really a problem, either - especially since for the first seasons, our heroes were headed towards Talax, as indicated by "Jetrel".
Alas, the show was full of far less excusable cases of illogically persisting "followers". This was the most disturbing when an enemy persisted even after our heroes had moved across some sort of a border, like the "Swarm" territory, or the Nekrit Expanse, or Borg headland - or had performed a massively long jump. The two widely separated appearances of the Hierarchy were perhaps the most annoying, when one would consider the writers should have learned something that late in the game.
Timo Saloniemi
Moreover, for the first season or so, the Voyager still suffered from the original "Caretaker" damage, having not yet found a safe haven for repairs and proper replenishment. That would cut down their speed a bit, both in terms of engine trouble, and in terms of having to steer clear of enemies when the ship wasn't in peak fighting condition.
So I don't really have a problem with the Kazon persisting for the first two years. And even the omnipresent Vidiians were somewhat excusable (their final "Coda" appearance was not for real, mind you). And the Talaxians were said to have the wanderlust bad, so that's not really a problem, either - especially since for the first seasons, our heroes were headed towards Talax, as indicated by "Jetrel".
Alas, the show was full of far less excusable cases of illogically persisting "followers". This was the most disturbing when an enemy persisted even after our heroes had moved across some sort of a border, like the "Swarm" territory, or the Nekrit Expanse, or Borg headland - or had performed a massively long jump. The two widely separated appearances of the Hierarchy were perhaps the most annoying, when one would consider the writers should have learned something that late in the game.
Timo Saloniemi
I can't explain the following after voyager did a long jump, but with crossing border im sure the other aliens some how got in their head to first go UP before going forewards, avoiding the borders. the galaxy isn't that thick, if you go up a few hundred light years you would be in completely different space, you could even go out of the galaxy, but then you wouldn't have planets for resources. They never really got the concept of 3-d space in the star trek series.
Well how else are you going to find an anamoly to take you back home if you're not exploring?
Mrs Paris
Captain
They were exploring because they were looking for wormholes and things that could help them get home quicker. Plus could you imagine going in a straigt line with no stops for 70 years? How boring would that be?
And the think where species knew about Voyager before they got there was only mentioned a few times, and only while they were around Kazon space. Once they got away from the Kazon it was never an issue again
And the think where species knew about Voyager before they got there was only mentioned a few times, and only while they were around Kazon space. Once they got away from the Kazon it was never an issue again
Neelix said it best: "These people are natural-born idiots, if you ask me. They don't appreciate what they have here. This ship is the match of any vessel within a hundred light years and what do they do with it? 'Well, er, let's see if we can't find some space anomaly today that might rip it apart!'"
I think I'll make that my sig for awhile.
Very, Good Point. I guess they just couldn't help themselves.
This ship is the match of any vessel within a hundred light years and what do they do with it? 'Well, er, let's see if we can't find some space anomaly today that might rip it apart!'"
Best. Quote. Ever.
It's all in the way he says it.
The water thing really frelling bothered me, I mean come one, you have stars and gas giants, you have planets with O2 in the atmosphere, so like, DUH!!! Scoop up some hydrogen from the gas giant, take it to the surface of a planet with Oxygen, light a match, duck, and pray for rain!
Huh? What water thing?
The only Kazon who were thirsty were the ones who were squatting on the surface of the Ocampa homeworld, waiting for a chance to invade the underground city. And they had every reason to be thirsty: the planet had no free atmospheric water for them to condense, no underground deposits, and they couldn't go to space to get some more water because they'd miss out on their chance to steal Ocampa secrets then.
The average Kazon wasn't thirsty, although he might have been in the need of a bath. And the average Kazon no doubt had a watermaker of one sort or another aboard his ship. What he didn't have was a replicator/transporter that could create big water tanks out of thin air.
Timo Saloniemi
The only Kazon who were thirsty were the ones who were squatting on the surface of the Ocampa homeworld, waiting for a chance to invade the underground city. And they had every reason to be thirsty: the planet had no free atmospheric water for them to condense, no underground deposits, and they couldn't go to space to get some more water because they'd miss out on their chance to steal Ocampa secrets then.
The average Kazon wasn't thirsty, although he might have been in the need of a bath. And the average Kazon no doubt had a watermaker of one sort or another aboard his ship. What he didn't have was a replicator/transporter that could create big water tanks out of thin air.
Timo Saloniemi
Mrs Paris
Captain
Neelix said it best: "These people are natural-born idiots, if you ask me. They don't appreciate what they have here. This ship is the match of any vessel within a hundred light years and what do they do with it? 'Well, er, let's see if we can't find some space anomaly today that might rip it apart!'"
I think I'll make that my sig for awhile.
Very, Good Point. I guess they just couldn't help themselves.
it would have been a very boring show otherwise
I figured because the Delta Quad. was uncharted, they had to fly around for a while to chart that part of the region inorder to get a star chart to figure out which way home was. I figured in "Fair Trade", Neelix needed to aquire a map for Voyager to know what was beyond the expance. So Voyager had no way of completely knowing what direction they were going in before Seven & Harry created the Astrometrix Lab without a map or chart.
They have sensors supposedly more powerful than Hubble's deep space telescope.
They can chart the position of each of the relay points in the Hirogen communications array as it stretches almost to the Alpha Quadrant.
I'm sure they don't need any special help to find their way anywhere...
...But probably only thanks to that network stretching almost to the Alpha Quadrant.
And they can't get realtime information from distant objects: the farthest their sensors can penetrate in realtime is a few dozen lightyears, apparently. Beyond that distance, they can only observe what the stars and nebulae on their path looked like a few thousand or ten thousand years ago. They don't get any information on what sort of political boundaries await them, what the density of interstellar hydrogen is on their path, which stars have suddenly blown up or changed spectral class thanks to meddling by advanced civilizations or bored superbeings, which subspace sandbars have emerged or submerged, etc.
Even after all the Borg stuff that Seven did to boost Astrometrics, the ship isn't all-seeing. If she really could get sensor readings all the way to Alpha Quadrant, she would logically be able to communicate with home as well!
Timo Saloniemi
I think an approximate range of Astrometric sensors would be about 2000 Ly's.
At least we know from episode 'Night' that 7 was able to scan that far ahead (and even then she was only describing how far this empty space spanned, not how large of a sensor range actually is ... but it's entirely possible that figure has no bearing on real-time sensor scans and she was waiting for some time before getting a full reading). Regular sensors would be limited to a range radius of about 40 Ly's if episode 'Raven' is any indication.
However from the episode in which Voyager encounters Hirogen communication network, Chakotay stated that 7 couldn't have pushed the sensors far ahead to read a SF ship on the edge of the AQ ... which implies at the very least that Astrometric sensors do have quite a vast range and 2000 LY's might be plausible.
As for everyone else going faster than Voyager ...
Lol ... subspace messages travel way faster than any 24th century Fed starship, so 'the ship of death' description Voyager got was thanks mostly to that as because the Kazon probably focused on sending that message to everyone within what they saw as their space.
The fact that Voyager took 2 years to exit their space doesn't preclude the possibility the Kazon 'controlled' (had ships) within 1000 LY's of space ... or possibly 2000.
It's probably less than 2000 LY's because Voyager was usually dealing with the Kazon and other species that wanted to pick them off which didn't mean they were constantly on a course for home.
I find it a bit of a 'missed chance' that the crew was never portrayed working for several episodes on new means of propulsion or technology in general.
Like demonstrating 7's work on Slipstream throughout several episodes an overall progress.
At least we know from episode 'Night' that 7 was able to scan that far ahead (and even then she was only describing how far this empty space spanned, not how large of a sensor range actually is ... but it's entirely possible that figure has no bearing on real-time sensor scans and she was waiting for some time before getting a full reading). Regular sensors would be limited to a range radius of about 40 Ly's if episode 'Raven' is any indication.
However from the episode in which Voyager encounters Hirogen communication network, Chakotay stated that 7 couldn't have pushed the sensors far ahead to read a SF ship on the edge of the AQ ... which implies at the very least that Astrometric sensors do have quite a vast range and 2000 LY's might be plausible.
As for everyone else going faster than Voyager ...
Lol ... subspace messages travel way faster than any 24th century Fed starship, so 'the ship of death' description Voyager got was thanks mostly to that as because the Kazon probably focused on sending that message to everyone within what they saw as their space.
The fact that Voyager took 2 years to exit their space doesn't preclude the possibility the Kazon 'controlled' (had ships) within 1000 LY's of space ... or possibly 2000.
It's probably less than 2000 LY's because Voyager was usually dealing with the Kazon and other species that wanted to pick them off which didn't mean they were constantly on a course for home.
I find it a bit of a 'missed chance' that the crew was never portrayed working for several episodes on new means of propulsion or technology in general.
Like demonstrating 7's work on Slipstream throughout several episodes an overall progress.
Exactly.
Plus, the Hirogen network doesn't mean shit 10 or 20 thousand light years away in Kazon space. They would still have to chart their way too it.
Dispite all the advanced technology, Starship still function based on nautical sailing ships.
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