Even I have standards ("A Night in Sickbay")...

[number6]

We'll agree to disagree here. Archer isn't a trained diplomat. He doesn't realise until this episode that he has to be. His approach from the first episode has been somewhat un-Starfleet Captain. He ignores T'Pol pretty regularly about certain protocols (that he really should be following) and this time it really comes back to bite him and he has to learn diplomacy the hard way. He also comes to grips with the fact that he is as prone to suffer the psychological effects of sexual tension as any other human being. This being the first crew of exploration out into space, it's interesting that they chose to tackle that in a way none of the other series had. This is not the Starfleet that we know. Their story is how this crew becomes the Starfleet archetype. These kinds of stumbles may show Archer as a fool, but it also shows him as someone who has a lot to learn beyond what he learned as a test pilot in the process of becoming the kind of Starship Captain we see in the other series. I think this episode reflects that in a fun way. Sorry guys. That is how I see it. I enjoyed the episode. There are certainly far worse and intolerable episodes of Star Trek in its 40 year history than this one. I don't need others (not necessarily you) to try to change my mind and convince me why I should hate it. That's what I strongly dislike about some of the people who post here, present company excepted.

 

[cooleddie74]

In "ANiS" 's defense, "Spirit Folk" and "Fair Haven" on VOYAGER, "Move Along Home" and "Profit and Lace" on DS9 and "Sub Rosa" and "Shades of Grey" from TNG are much worse and rank down near "TATV" territory if not worse.

 

[Gepard]

In "ANiS" 's defense, "Spirit Folk" and "Fair Haven" on VOYAGER, "Move Along Home" and "Profit and Lace" on DS9 and "Sub Rosa" and "Shades of Grey" from TNG are much worse and rank down near "TATV" territory if not worse.

I have to say...no. Because, as bad as those others are, they're just bad, whereas ANIS hates you for wanting to watch the shit B&B write.

So, yeah, I really, really, really hate this episode. What else is new?

 

[Captain X]

Profit and Lace is the only other one that comes close to ANiS and TATV in sucktitude. TATV is bad because everyone is out of character, it assassinates the character of everyone in it, it makes the ENT crew the "guest" stars, it ignores a major event in ST's established history, and it destroys one of the few good S7 TNG episodes. I already covered why ANiS sucks. P&L sucks because it's all about putting Quark in a dress. That's it. The big joke is a gender-bender. All those other episodes you listed and more, are mostly just boring as hell.

 

[JiNX-01]

We'll agree to disagree here. Archer isn't a trained diplomat.

Actually, in this very episode, Trip comes right out says, "You're a trained diplomat. Take the high road. There's got to be some way you can kiss and make up."

 

[number6]

We'll agree to disagree here. Archer isn't a trained diplomat.

Actually, in this very episode, Trip comes right out says, "You're a trained diplomat. Take the high road. There's got to be some way you can kiss and make up."

Trip may say that, but the lesson Archer learns is how far he has to go for in the name of diplomacy. Obviously he isn't the "traned diplomat" he should be.

He let his dog pee on a sacred tree.

 

[JiNX-01]

We'll agree to disagree here. Archer isn't a trained diplomat.

Actually, in this very episode, Trip comes right out says, "You're a trained diplomat. Take the high road. There's got to be some way you can kiss and make up."

Trip may say that, but the lesson Archer learns is how far he has to go for in the name of diplomacy. Obviously he isn't the "traned diplomat" he should be.

He let his dog pee on a sacred tree.

Here's what I learned: Archer has no common sense. Nor is he a considerate guest.

 

[CaptainHawk1]

Actually, in this very episode, Trip comes right out says, "You're a trained diplomat. Take the high road. There's got to be some way you can kiss and make up."

Trip may say that, but the lesson Archer learns is how far he has to go for in the name of diplomacy. Obviously he isn't the "traned diplomat" he should be.

He let his dog pee on a sacred tree.

Here's what I learned: Archer has no common sense. Nor is he a considerate guest.

And THAT is exactly what the problem is with Archer in this episode. He has absolutely no common sense and his parents never taught him any manners. It has nothing to do with being a trained diplomat. I'll say it again: Archer has become Michael Scott from The Office in this episode.

And really, this is my big problem with this episode because despite all of the criticism of Archer even this is out of character for him. He was never an idiot like this before or after this episode.

-Shawn

 

[cooleddie74]

In "ANiS" 's defense, "Spirit Folk" and "Fair Haven" on VOYAGER, "Move Along Home" and "Profit and Lace" on DS9 and "Sub Rosa" and "Shades of Grey" from TNG are much worse and rank down near "TATV" territory if not worse.

I have to say...no. Because, as bad as those others are, they're just bad, whereas ANIS hates you for wanting to watch the shit B&B write.

So, yeah, I really, really, really hate this episode. What else is new?

"ANiS" is profoundly lazy and a complete bomb on almost every level. It would easily rank in my Twenty All-Time Worst TREK Episodes from all the series combined. But shittier than the ones I listed earlier? Nope. Sorry. B&B screwed the pooch and showed they sometimes didn't give a shit with "ANiS" but those nougated deer turds from the earlier shows? The deer's intestinal tract.

 

[Captain X]

We'll agree to disagree here. Archer isn't a trained diplomat.

Actually, in this very episode, Trip comes right out says, "You're a trained diplomat. Take the high road. There's got to be some way you can kiss and make up."

Trip may say that, but the lesson Archer learns is how far he has to go for in the name of diplomacy. Obviously he isn't the "traned diplomat" he should be.

He let his dog pee on a sacred tree.

Exactly, he isn't a trained diplomat, despite all the times Trip brought up the fact that he was. After all, it would make sense that a starship captain would have at least some training in diplomacy, or at the very least in basic courtesies.

 

[Skywalker]

The writers were guilty of a lot of that with Archer. He was a trained diplomat, he was instrumental to the founding of the Federation, he was the greatest explorer of the 22nd century...none of these things were ever shown to be true on screen. They forgot to follow the rule of "show, don't tell."

 

[number6]

After all, it would make sense that a starship captain would have at least some training in diplomacy, or at the very least in basic courtesies.

Not in the 22nd century. That's not established. This series is where we see that starting to happen and we see that by the fourth season with all that Archer learns through the run of the series.

 

[Captain X]

Even modern military officers have some basic training in that area. At the very least most of them tend to have at least an once of common sense.

 

[Bak_and_Blue]

We'll agree to disagree here. Archer isn't a trained diplomat. He doesn't realise until this episode that he has to be. His approach from the first episode has been somewhat un-Starfleet Captain. He ignores T'Pol pretty regularly about certain protocols (that he really should be following) and this time it really comes back to bite him and he has to learn diplomacy the hard way. He also comes to grips with the fact that he is as prone to suffer the psychological effects of sexual tension as any other human being. This being the first crew of exploration out into space, it's interesting that they chose to tackle that in a way none of the other series had. This is not the Starfleet that we know. Their story is how this crew becomes the Starfleet archetype. These kinds of stumbles may show Archer as a fool, but it also shows him as someone who has a lot to learn beyond what he learned as a test pilot in the process of becoming the kind of Starship Captain we see in the other series. I think this episode reflects that in a fun way. Sorry guys. That is how I see it. I enjoyed the episode. There are certainly far worse and intolerable episodes of Star Trek in its 40 year history than this one. I don't need others (not necessarily you) to try to change my mind and convince me why I should hate it. That's what I strongly dislike about some of the people who post here, present company excepted.

This makes a lot of sense to me. Yes, Archer was an ass. That was the point. The writers made a lot of blunders in this series and I think this episode is one of them, but the point trying to be made was that Archer was a human, had human failings and in the end attempted to learn from the results of his bad behavior and apologize.

I also think this post says it all:

Archer is making fool of himself. That's right, he is. It is stupid of him to take Porthos on the meeting, it is irrational to get angry with Kreetassans and to yell at Phlox, T'Pol and everybody because he is worried about Porthos. If you nurture a heroic concept of what a starfleet captain should be: always right, always serious, always responsible superhuman kind, it can ibe insulting. And Archer's behaviour is indeed irritating, as always when someone we know becomes irrational. However, in a real life, everyone sometimes makes fool fo him/herself... or not? Moments of stupidity are implied in everyone's life.
So, the main problem the episode deals with is not momentaneus irrational behaviour but the way one is able to handle it. Archer did a stupid thing. OK. So what next? No one likes to admit his/her own error, especially being in a place of command. And apologising is not always easy, you can certainly bring a numer of examples from your own experience. Yet, for all Archer's yelling and fussing, it is quite obvious from the beginning that his are empty threads and that he will apologize to Kreetassans. He knows it (hence his bad mood) and his crew knows it (because they prepare everything for the ridiculous ceremony while he is still fussing about the dog in Sickbay). Now, the apologies Kreetassans want are indeed rather humiliating and to go through them requiers a great deal of personal courage. Archer swallows his pride, because he knows that without more plasma injectors the ship and the crew could be at risk: in other words he put his crew's needs over his personal feelings, just like a mature leader should do, even if it is not a life-threatening situation. In a sense, it is more heroic than to blast boldly some alien enemy.

 

[Captain X]

Except he never learned from it. Later he would go on to make the same kinds of mistakes. Even within the episode, he didn't really admit to making a mistake, it came off more like he was sucking it up so he could get the parts his ship needed, but not that he admitted to any wrongdoing or making an error. He sure didn't apologize to his crew for acting like an ass to them after they only tried to help.

 

[number6]

Except he never learned from it. Later he would go on to make the same kinds of mistakes. Even within the episode, he didn't really admit to making a mistake, it came off more like he was sucking it up so he could get the parts his ship needed, but not that he admitted to any wrongdoing or making an error. He sure didn't apologize to his crew for acting like an ass to them after they only tried to help.

You're absolutely right, but not in the ways you think. Archer made loads of mistakes, but I believe that was part of his growth during the run of the series. He did actually apologize a few times in this episode, to T'pol and to Phlox at the very least, which was totally the right thing to do. He may have decided to apologize to the Kreetassins to get what he needed, but it wasn't until he had to strip topless, paint his chest, wear that ridiculous headgear and haul out the chainsaw that he understood what apologizing meant in the true cause of diplomacy, and in the process made a friend of this soceity. That's how I see it and we're not going to agree here, so I suggest you stop trying to convince me otherwise. I enjoyed this episode. I don't really have a problem with it.

 

[Nebusj]

After all, it would make sense that a starship captain would have at least some training in diplomacy, or at the very least in basic courtesies.

Not in the 22nd century. That's not established.

Not even when Tucker said ``You're a trained diplomat'' to Archer that episode.

Besides, who could really foresee something like a dog peeing on a tree, or people taking public urination on a symbolically important item as offensive? These are totally whacked out impossible developments far less likely than Archer deciding to take Porthos on a landing party for the first time in a year.

 

[Captain X]

You're absolutely right, but not in the ways you think. Archer made loads of mistakes, but I believe that was part of his growth during the run of the series. He did actually apologize a few times in this episode, to T'pol and to Phlox at the very least, which was totally the right thing to do. He may have decided to apologize to the Kreetassins to get what he needed, but it wasn't until he had to strip topless, paint his chest, wear that ridiculous headgear and haul out the chainsaw that he understood what apologizing meant in the true cause of diplomacy, and in the process made a friend of this soceity. That's how I see it and we're not going to agree here, so I suggest you stop trying to convince me otherwise. I enjoyed this episode. I don't really have a problem with it.

Yeah, it's pretty clear we're never going to agree about most anything, so I suggest a compromise:

 

[Bak_and_Blue]

You're absolutely right, but not in the ways you think. Archer made loads of mistakes, but I believe that was part of his growth during the run of the series. He did actually apologize a few times in this episode, to T'pol and to Phlox at the very least, which was totally the right thing to do. He may have decided to apologize to the Kreetassins to get what he needed, but it wasn't until he had to strip topless, paint his chest, wear that ridiculous headgear and haul out the chainsaw that he understood what apologizing meant in the true cause of diplomacy, and in the process made a friend of this soceity. That's how I see it and we're not going to agree here, so I suggest you stop trying to convince me otherwise. I enjoyed this episode. I don't really have a problem with it.

Yeah, it's pretty clear we're never going to agree about most anything, so I suggest a compromise:

I agree. Our opinions differ but that's okay.

Kumbaya.

Oh, BTW, Captain X, I read "In Memoriam" and it's quite good.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I thought it was a pretty funny episode. I can think of dozens, if not hundreds, of Trek episodes I like less.

Dennis, your iconoclasm is something I can always count on.

It's all I got, dude! It's all I fuckin' got!