Even I have standards ("A Night in Sickbay")...
- Thread starter CaptainHawk1
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Just my .02...I can't watch this episode any more. It makes me literally cringe at the memory of it. It turned me off ENT when it originally aired for the entire season. I only started watching again during Season Three, after reading a review of The Expanse. I had to catch the rest of the Season Two eps on dvd.
"ANiS" still ranks in my All-Time Bottom/Worst Three episodes along with "TATV" and "Precious Cargo." Ugh. When the best part of an episode is seeing Phlox chase a Pyrithean bat around sickbay with a net while Archer helps him, you know you've wandered into the Valley of Dung.
Almost all posts in this thread are limited to the statement "I hate ANIS" ""ANIS is awful" "I hate Archer". Kind of boring, don't you think? What about some discussion? Are you so keen on bashing that you are not able to see what ANIS is about? (Mind you, I don't say it's a masterpiece) And the haters of Archer should actually like this episode very much, given he is making a fool of himself! 
Yes.
Yup.
That would be nice. What about?
We're not keen on...wait, it was about something? I thought the message was "adults shouldn't act like spoiled four-year-olds" which is so astoundingly shallow that it hardly warrants serious contemplation. If you have some other, more profound, interpretation, then by all means tell us!
And the haters of Archer should actually like this episode very much, given he is making a fool of himself!
Nope. The episode demonstrates why we hate Archer so damn much---we're not happy about it!
Yes, that's a problem: it is more easy just to say "I hate it" or "it sucks". Why to bother about a discussion? Even if Trek BBS is supposed to be a DISCUSSION board.
Well, I did "present my case" in an earlier post in this thread, but obviously, you didn't bother to read it.
I don't pretend to have a "profound" interpretation, because the intention of the story is quite clear and shown not-so-subtly: you don't need to be academic to understand it.And the haters of Archer should actually like this episode very much, given he is making a fool of himself!
Nope. The episode demonstrates why we hate Archer so damn much---we're not happy about it!
You know, there is something vaguely worrying about such a hatred towards a fictional character and the need of expressing this feeling in every occasion. It could have sense if you were A.G.Robinson, holding a personal grudge against more fortunate rival...
Or in your fantasies you see yourself as an ideal starfleet captain to be and that's why you cannot stand Archer? 
Captain X
Rear Admiral
So stop complaining and post some discussion instead of trying to be a junior psychologist.
Must not've been much of a case if no one can really remember it, but I'm guessing it had something to do with "this shows that Archer isn't perfect and even captains make mistakes" or "this shows how inexperienced our crew is compared to the other ones" because those are the two most common arguments used by Archer fans to excuse his behavior, regardless of what episode it's in.Well, I did "present my case" in an earlier post in this thread, but obviously, you didn't bother to read it.
Somehow I doubt seeing an adult acting like a child and reacting negatively to it would be seen as worrying by most anyone.
Wow, is this your attempt at psychology? You might as well quit while you;re ahead, because you suck at it. Having the ability to see a frak-up like Archer for what he is doesn't mean I or anyone else who can sees ourselves as an "ideal Starfleet captain."Or in your fantasies you see yourself as an ideal starfleet captain to be and that's why you cannot stand Archer?
It means we can recognize a bad leader when we see one. I actually have a military background, and I've seen what real leadership looks like. The way Archer conducted himself would have never been tolerated, and there's no excuse for it, not even inexperience because even the greenest of cadets knows not to conduct themselves so unprofessionally.
This episode was intended to be a fun romp. I thought it succeeded.
Must not've been much of a case if no one can really remember it, but I'm guessing it had something to do with "this shows that Archer isn't perfect and even captains make mistakes" or "this shows how inexperienced our crew is compared to the other ones" because those are the two most common arguments used by Archer fans to excuse his behavior, regardless of what episode it's in.
Wow, is this your attempt at psychology? You might as well quit while you;re ahead, because you suck at it. Having the ability to see a frak-up like Archer for what he is doesn't mean I or anyone else who can sees ourselves as an "ideal Starfleet captain."
Sorry, but I do find this kind of language rude. If you are not interested in my opinion, it's fine. If going back to the first page of THIS, not so long thread to read what I wrote is too much an effort for you, it's fine, too. I know you have a military background - you talk about it in your profile - but I don't think this gives your right to talk to other people with arrogance and I certainly hope the lack of respect for your interlocutors is not part of military training.
It was just a simple story about a 4 year old and his dog. And I think it succeeded.
Yeah..."Archer's Bad Day".
Dude was in a bad mood. After all he's only...(lip quiver)...human.
-Rabittooth
CaptainHawk1
Commodore
Your arguments lack merit on so many different levels. You've spent more time complaining about the thread than opininig on the subject.Must not've been much of a case if no one can really remember it, but I'm guessing it had something to do with "this shows that Archer isn't perfect and even captains make mistakes" or "this shows how inexperienced our crew is compared to the other ones" because those are the two most common arguments used by Archer fans to excuse his behavior, regardless of what episode it's in.
Wow, is this your attempt at psychology? You might as well quit while you;re ahead, because you suck at it. Having the ability to see a frak-up like Archer for what he is doesn't mean I or anyone else who can sees ourselves as an "ideal Starfleet captain."
Sorry, but I do find this kind of language rude. If you are not interested in my opinion, it's fine. If going back to the first page of THIS, not so long thread to read what I wrote is too much an effort for you, it's fine, too. I know you have a military background - you talk about it in your profile - but I don't think this gives your right to talk to other people with arrogance and I certainly hope the lack of respect for your interlocutors is not part of military training.
You complain about all of the energy and hatred directed at a fictional character, when that's not what this is about. It's about poor character development, plain and simple. Not for nothing, but every discussion on this bbs for the past 10 years has been about fictional characters and situations. I'm curious as to where you get off trying to redirect the subject of the conversation? If you don't like it, don't post, but don't tell other people what opinions they're allowed to have and then call people rude for scrutinizing yours.
Other than the occasional drive-by slam on this episode, most of the complaints (including my own in the thread starter) have been specific as to the observations of the problems of the episode. What you seem to ignore are all of the gushers who have supported this episode. What do you get when on a bbs when you have supporting viewpoints and dissenting viewpoints? The answer: a discussion... which is exactly what's been going on with this thread. People posting their thought-out (even if misguided) opinions on this subject.
You, OTOH, have had nothing to say to remotely indicate anything other than your disdain for the conversation. Your original arguments were the arguments of a 12 year-old. You actually suggested that because Scott Bakula said ANiS is one of his favorite episodes, then it must be good.
You go on further to suggest some pseudo-liberal nonsense about how everyone makes mistakes and that just shows how human he is. This is the most ridiculous line of thinking I've ever heard. He's the captain of the flagship of his home planet and their chief ambassador and that's how he behaves and you accept that?!
Another thing, too: your command of vocabulary also indicates to me that you're somewhere between 12 and 14 because your posts are filled with "big words" that aren't normally used in casual conversation however you've felt it necessary use them all over your posts and completely out of context or otherwise inappropriately. Young kids tend to do this when they're trying to show off to adults as to how smart they are because they don't have enough education, maturity or experience to back it up.
And this:
...just proves it.
That is the response from a smart-ass teenager and you disrespect his service with comments like these. No adult would ever say that to another adult. The point of him bringing up his service was to share his experiences analagous to the discussion at hand regarding the behavior of commanding officers. However, because of your lack of maturity you can't see that and are more concerned about being "right" as far your own petty opinion is concerned as opposed to being open to people who may have a perspective based upon pertinent experience and just perhaps, may know a little more about life than you do.
If you want to play with the big kids, you need to act like one of them. I hope that you take these words to heart but I'm not counting on it as I expect a scathing, defensive and wholly childish response.
-Shawn
Enough with the name-calling and bashing other posters, already. Captain X and CaptainHawk1, I'm entering an infraction for each of you for flaming. I think you both know you crossed the line here--I'm genuinely surprised that miriel68's comments drew that kind of venom. And I'm seeing others follow suit, which is not cool. Some people liked the episode, some didn't--I'd like to think we can all express our opinions about a tv show and keep it civil.
As always, comments to PM.
As always, comments to PM.
Captain X
Rear Admiral
You were the one trying to use some kind of an inane version of psychology on CaptainHawk1 and myself, so don't try to flip this around and pretend you have some kind of moral high ground. Respect is earned, so it should go without saying that you haven't earned mine by accusing me of seeing myself as the "ideal Starfleet captain" because I can point out character flaws in Captain Archer.
So? He'd still make a horrible officer, let alone the commanding officer of Earth's flagship. Even if none of it had been done before (which the show let us know that wasn't entirely the case), that doesn't excuse ineptitude at a very basic level. Officers are supposed to have a certain way of conducting themselves, and they follow rules and regulations that have been laid down to deal with situations that have arisen in the past and hypothetical situations that may arise in the future. NASA has protocols to with how to deal with situations that may arise. So it wouldn't matter even if the NX-01 was literally the first ship in "Starfleet" or if it was just the first one to get out as far as it did, you still have a basic level of competence on the part of the people manning the ship and to be frank you'd want these people to be your best and brightest. Just being the first isn't an excuse if you're a screw-up. There is no excuse for being a screw-up on the level Archer could show himself to be, and this episode was a good example of that.
When writing fiction you need an accepting audience that is willing to accept things that are not true. When writing science fiction you need an accepting audience that is willing to accept things that is currently considered impossible as well as not true. As a fan of science fiction you put your trust in the writer to deliver a story at is interesting to the point that you are willing to believe the impossible.
When an episode like ANIS is released that is based on something as idiotic as taking the dog to the planet of beings that are easily insulted that trust is breached. This is not a canon violation to improve a story line or a writer taking a chance on a story line that did not work. It is an obvious fixable problem that should have been fixed. Some fans are insulted because they think the writers must consider them too stupid to notice such a gaff. Other fans are insulted because the think the writers don't care enough to come up with a better way to start the story. Either way, the magnitude was such that the line was crossed. Fans are not just disappointed, they are mad about the product that was delivered.
To me tuning into Enterprise and getting ANIS is like ordering a ribeye and having the waitress deliver an overcooked sirloin with mustard squirted on top.
When an episode like ANIS is released that is based on something as idiotic as taking the dog to the planet of beings that are easily insulted that trust is breached. This is not a canon violation to improve a story line or a writer taking a chance on a story line that did not work. It is an obvious fixable problem that should have been fixed. Some fans are insulted because they think the writers must consider them too stupid to notice such a gaff. Other fans are insulted because the think the writers don't care enough to come up with a better way to start the story. Either way, the magnitude was such that the line was crossed. Fans are not just disappointed, they are mad about the product that was delivered.
To me tuning into Enterprise and getting ANIS is like ordering a ribeye and having the waitress deliver an overcooked sirloin with mustard squirted on top.
The fundamental problem is that Archer comes off as a complete idiot more than a year after they left Earth. ANIS might have worked if this was the second or third episode in season ONE. At this late date he should know better.
He saw the Kretassans' reaction to the human practice of eating in the presence of others. How did he think they'd feel about an Earth creature using their planet as a toilet? And it's not like Archer can predict Porthos' need to use a potty. Meanwhile, he thinks aliens on a planet more than 100 light years from Earth are going to understand what a dog is.
Best scene in that episode was when T'Pol ripped Archer a new one for bringing Porthos along on a sensitive mission to get parts the chief engineer says are needed.
As for why I don't like this episode, it's simple: Archer comes off as suffering from arrested development. A petulant infant in a man's body.
And I don't even what to get into the embarassing nonsense that was supposed to pass for sexual tension with T'Pol.
He saw the Kretassans' reaction to the human practice of eating in the presence of others. How did he think they'd feel about an Earth creature using their planet as a toilet? And it's not like Archer can predict Porthos' need to use a potty. Meanwhile, he thinks aliens on a planet more than 100 light years from Earth are going to understand what a dog is.
Best scene in that episode was when T'Pol ripped Archer a new one for bringing Porthos along on a sensitive mission to get parts the chief engineer says are needed.
As for why I don't like this episode, it's simple: Archer comes off as suffering from arrested development. A petulant infant in a man's body.
And I don't even what to get into the embarassing nonsense that was supposed to pass for sexual tension with T'Pol.
You know, there is something vaguely worrying about such a hatred towards a fictional character and the need of expressing this feeling in every occasion. It could have sense if you were A.G.Robinson, holding a personal grudge against more fortunate rival...
Perhaps I should have been clearer that that was hyperbole intended to make a point--that Archer's characterization throughout the series was erratic, sloppy, and presented him as an incompetent captain. Us Archer bashers aren't saying bad things about him because we're rubbing our hands, loving the episodes in which he's a bad character; we're facepalming ourselves because we know he could have been so much more but was mismanaged into total buffonery. We wanted to like Enterprise, but the writers were working against us.
Indeed. This whole thing reminds me of the episode of Friends where Phoebe meets her boyfriend Mike's parent. She spends the whole episode being a complete psycho loon to the parents, punching the father in his stomach, puking in the coat closet, etc. When Mike takes her off to the side and demands to know what the heck is going on, she says:
PHOEBE: I'm sorry, it's just that I've never met a boyfriend's parents before.
[after a deathly pause]
MIKE: ...You have met people before, haven't you?
There not having been a prior Enterprise before this is no excuse for Archer's behavior--he's acting in a way that you wouldn't foist on your next door neighbor, let alone a new alien race. It's just common sense.
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