Eugenics Wars.
- Thread starter GalaxyClass1701
- Start date
That would seem to be the case, if you accept Harve Bennett's idea that the shakedown took that long.
We never heard of a three-digits-after-decimal-point stardate there, though. So ".04" ought to signify "4% into the year", which would make it January 14th rather than 4th.
That she's on a different ship altogether suggests that various ships have been shuttling back and forth while the Enterprise has been crawling back home. We don't know if Kirk headed straight for home after tying up the ST2 loose ends, or if he engaged in other missions as well - but since his "mission" originally was just an interrupted training cruise for a ship apparently dedicated to training use, I don't see how he could co-opt the ship for any sort of activity unless it were an acute and personal emergency like the original Marcus call. I'd assume a straight-for-home course then - but that doesn't mean there wouldn't have been interesting adventures preventing a timely homecoming.
To be sure, this would have been a perfect time to have surplus starships lying around. The Whale Probe had apparently "neutralized" a whole lot of them, and many might have been unfit for duty afterwards - save for ceremonial duty. OTOH, if the Yorktown distress is anything to go by, the "neutralizing" is likely to have killed whole crews, leaving ships short of personnel even if the hardware were still working and only needed to be recharged from a suitable socket. In both cases, Starfleet would only need about an hour of lead time, to get a guy, gal or bot to paint the new registry on a free ship while another screwed in place the new dedication plaque.
So that particular interval flexes both ways: anything from hours to months or even years if we so wish. And we can invent all sorts of in-between events after Spock's resurrection but before the three months of exile being (even if the comic books' "Mirror Saga" is a rather pathetic example of that).
However, dramatically it sounds a better idea to have ST2 through 5 in a relatively tight package, and to use the mentioned time intervals as is, without inserting the possible extra bits, while choosing minimum length for those intervals that weren't explicitly mentioned. I can see the allure of inserting in-between stories, but the package doesn't really need those, and IMHO is harmed by too much extraneous material in the middle of an already gripping storyline.
What is the TRiH insert all about?
Timo Saloniemi
I love how we're given the most easy to understand and foolproof stardate system ever, and people still aren't happy with it
As I said in another thread, it's gonna take more than William Shatner's birthday (and suposedly an illegable on-screen graphic in "Flashback") convince me that Kirk Prime, the fictional character, was born in March.
As I said in another thread, it's gonna take more than William Shatner's birthday (and suposedly an illegable on-screen graphic in "Flashback") convince me that Kirk Prime, the fictional character, was born in March.
Well, ENT gave us a truly foolproof timekeeping system (the one we have today!), and rather miracuously there were almost no complaints. Those dates worked - perhaps partially because the writers themselves understood them and could see if there were going to be conflicts and impossibilities...
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
Nothing wrong with that. You're free to interpret Trek chronology however you choose. You're presumably not an employee or licensee of CBS or Paramount, so it's not like anybody has any authority to tell you otherwise.
The opening scene of TSFS certainly makes it seem like it's very shortly after the end of TWOK, and that not much has happened since then, as everyone is still pretty shaken up by Spock's death and hasn't had much time to get over it yet. Hence my opinion that the time between the two movies is around a week, at the most.
I believe Vonda McIntyre's novelisation of TSFS starts earlier than the movie does, and goes into some detail as to how Saavik ended up on the Grissom. I also recall it saying that another starship rescued the crew of Reliant from Ceti Alpha V, sparing the Enterprise the need to go there.
I believe Vonda McIntyre's novelisation of TSFS starts earlier than the movie does, and goes into some detail as to how Saavik ended up on the Grissom. I also recall it saying that another starship rescued the crew of Reliant from Ceti Alpha V, sparing the Enterprise the need to go there.
That's true, yet at the same time it's hard to believe Saavik could've ended up graduated and serving on a different ship within a week. A gap of several weeks is plausible if you assume the Enterprise crew has been preoccupied with repairs (and maybe whatever unexpected crisis caused that additional battle damage), and only now have the luxury of refocusing on what they've been through. I know firsthand that sometimes you don't have time to confront and work through grief right after a loss, and that it can linger for quite some time afterward.
It picks up pretty much immediately after TWOK ends. It postulates an interval of only three days between the movies, and depicts pretty much that entire interval. The actual adaptation of the movie proper doesn't begin until several chapters into the book.
Except that on the bridge, and when Enterprise slides in Spacedock berth, the ship is more damaged than at the end of ST II.
Firenze is assigned to rendezvous and take the worst-injured cadets back to Earth (and presumably Saavik, the Marcuses - and Janice Rand and Dr Chapel, since both characters appear in the ST II novelization, and Rand has seemingly beaten back the Enterprise in her tearful ST III cameo), leaving the Enterprise free to collect Kyle, Beach and the other Reliant crew from Ceti Alpha V.
Of course, now Timo will pop in to say it was Rand's sister in ST III.
Well, the only in-universe commonality with Janice Rand was the face. Which, come to think of it, was far from a constant during Janice Rand's onscreen appearances...
Regarding the extra damage, it might have been what you get when a supervillain blasts your ship to pieces and a bunch of wet-behind-the-ears trainees then repairs the original damage the best they can. The first pipe would burst before warp five, and the rest of the duct tape would be torn halfway to Ceti Alpha...
...Regarding which, LA Graf in War Dragons said Kyle, Beach and all the rest died on Ceti Alpha V before (perhaps long before) Kirk got there, now didn't they? Or possibly Khan killed them right away, at beam-down, while feeding the diminishing bunch of survivors a comforting story about "marooning".
Although such a massacre ought to reflect on ST3 somehow, IMHO. There's a distinct lack of reaction there, or of mention of survivors; since we don't see Kyle or Beach, or hear of them, it may be that Kirk never picked them up, and that some other ship handled that task while Kirk tackled the issue of increasing damage to his ship. In-universe, Kyle and Beach would be "hero characters", probably present on the bridge or otherwise close to Chekov during the return home, assuming they were on board at all. At the very least, they'd come to hear Morrow's pep talk.
In contrast, the fact that GLW's character in ST3 has a reaction at all, let alone one of such intensity, sort of establishes that said character was nowhere near the events of ST2. So, if the novelization had Janice Rand aboard the ship in ST2, this clearly ain't her.
Timo Saloniemi
Regarding the extra damage, it might have been what you get when a supervillain blasts your ship to pieces and a bunch of wet-behind-the-ears trainees then repairs the original damage the best they can. The first pipe would burst before warp five, and the rest of the duct tape would be torn halfway to Ceti Alpha...
...Regarding which, LA Graf in War Dragons said Kyle, Beach and all the rest died on Ceti Alpha V before (perhaps long before) Kirk got there, now didn't they? Or possibly Khan killed them right away, at beam-down, while feeding the diminishing bunch of survivors a comforting story about "marooning".
Although such a massacre ought to reflect on ST3 somehow, IMHO. There's a distinct lack of reaction there, or of mention of survivors; since we don't see Kyle or Beach, or hear of them, it may be that Kirk never picked them up, and that some other ship handled that task while Kirk tackled the issue of increasing damage to his ship. In-universe, Kyle and Beach would be "hero characters", probably present on the bridge or otherwise close to Chekov during the return home, assuming they were on board at all. At the very least, they'd come to hear Morrow's pep talk.
In contrast, the fact that GLW's character in ST3 has a reaction at all, let alone one of such intensity, sort of establishes that said character was nowhere near the events of ST2. So, if the novelization had Janice Rand aboard the ship in ST2, this clearly ain't her.
Timo Saloniemi
And the "Debt of Honor" comic shows Kyle alive and well after the events of ST IV.
Huh? Just because Rand may have witnessed some of the events of ST II (in the novelization), she wouldn't be shedding any tears for the return of the damaged, Spockless ship in ST III? How do you work that out?In contrast, the fact that GLW's character in ST3 has a reaction at all, let alone one of such intensity, sort of establishes that said character was nowhere near the events of ST2. So, if the novelization had Janice Rand aboard the ship in ST2, this clearly ain't her.
We, the fans, also witnessed the events of ST II - and some of us were shedding tears at that ST III Spacedock footage along with the "Woman in Cafeteria". (Not to mention that the director told "Woman in Cafeteria" to shed some tears for her returning ship and her lost comrade.)
That's not what happens in the movie. The Enterprise enters Spacedock, and a female Commander is startled by the sight of the combat damage. There's no "sorrow" there - no indication that the woman was prepared for what she was going to see, no indication that she would be saddened rather than shocked by the ship's sorry condition, no indication that she would know Spock was dead or that she'd care (And how would news of Spock's death suddenly manifest for her at that time? Telepathically?). Instead, she was surprised by what she saw.
If Janice Rand were aboard the ship in ST2, she couldn't have this reaction, and couldn't be that woman we see. Of course, there is no onscreen indication that Rand would have been aboard the ship in ST2; all of Kirk's old friends seemed to flock around the birthday hero on that fateful cruise, so it would be really odd if an onboard Rand failed to show up, too. Or an onboard Chapel.
(Were the two perhaps having a catfight over Kirk on lower decks for the duration of the movie?)
But really, anybody from Kirk's inner circle ought to be out of the picture here: it seems unlikely that news of ST2 would have failed to spread, what with ships shuttling back and forth between the hobbled Enterprise and Genesis and Earth. Only a complete stranger could be that surprised by the dramatic entrance of the ship.
Timo Saloniemi
Sigh. There are tears in her eyes, dude. Whether she's prepared or not, this was her home, return home, in dreadful condition.
Similarly, there are tears in Rand's eyes in ST VI, for Kirk and McCoy, when they are arrested for Gorkon's murder.
Where as Greg Cox's more recent To Reign In Hell had them as still alive with a few minor injuries.
After reading To Reign in Hell, I have a query: It's stated that when Joachim is ten years old, he appears to be fifteen. But when the other children, such as Ericsson's daughter, are described, they sound more as though they look their ages, if you know what I mean. This is during the time when Joachim is 10, and looks like a teen. Shouldn't the rest of the colony's offspring look like teens as well?
Torchwood blew them up.
