Both good episodes.
Both legitimate contenders for ‘classic’.
Both legitimate contenders for ‘classic’.
Poll Ethan Peck's Spock
- Thread starter trekfan_1
- Start date
The thing about Spock's change that's throwing me off, is that I assumed from episodes like The Naked Time and This Side of Paradise that if anything Spock allowed more emotions in as he got older and found peace with his human side. That was pretty obviously his arc in the movies.
He was tormented that he couldn't ever tell his mother that he loved her and felt ashamed about his friendship with Kirk, that was his starting point in TOS. It seems weird that SNW is about getting him to that place and putting him in his self-made purgatory.
He was tormented that he couldn't ever tell his mother that he loved her and felt ashamed about his friendship with Kirk, that was his starting point in TOS. It seems weird that SNW is about getting him to that place and putting him in his self-made purgatory.
But, he's not doing it in any balanced way. He goes in extremes. He is tormented as a child for not being Vulcan enough, so of course he attempts to act more Vulcan there. He wouldn't tell his mother, because she preferred the Vulcan way as well, calling it a better way than human ways.
Spock tries to fit in with a more human crew, and work out being himself, yet he doesn't really fit in either. So, he struggles along, and goes through extremes, putting out a front of logic to avoid more discomfort. Only over time does he actually grow in to a balanced individual.
It’s fine. It’s new. It’s fresh.
As many have said, Nimoy cannot really be beaten. He inhabited the role for so long and had such a huge influence in the formation of the character.
His portrayal is definitive. The template any future actor looking to play any kind of Vulcan should be familiar with.
I do however think Quinto and Peck both have brought something different and new to the role. Their portrayals are equally as valid and interesting.
I don’t really care about how things line up with The Cage or whatever though, because I treat SNW as a separate thing. It makes things much easier mentally and I can just get on with enjoying the stories/characters.
As many have said, Nimoy cannot really be beaten. He inhabited the role for so long and had such a huge influence in the formation of the character.
His portrayal is definitive. The template any future actor looking to play any kind of Vulcan should be familiar with.
I do however think Quinto and Peck both have brought something different and new to the role. Their portrayals are equally as valid and interesting.
I don’t really care about how things line up with The Cage or whatever though, because I treat SNW as a separate thing. It makes things much easier mentally and I can just get on with enjoying the stories/characters.
Yes, but I've seen 24-year-old Spock in "The Cage". He's not like SNW Spock, even though it's only a few years earlier. Cage Spock seems more mature than SNW Spock. Going from Cage Spock to SNW Spock to TOS Spock doesn't look like natural progression to me.
I'm not saying people don't change. I'm saying the direction of change doesn't look natural from Point A to Point B to Point C. If you look at Spock in "The Cage", Spock in SNW, and Spock in "Where No Man Has Gone Before", the Spock in SNW looks like the odd man out. Again, it's not about change, it's about the type of change. I like change but I want the change to make sense.
We'll have to agree to disagree.
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I won't fault anyone for changing their hairstyle. I've changed mine, grown it out, grown it out even more, done variations, you name it. I can even split how I dressed during the '90s into four different stages: neon, plaid, dark royal, black. And I've changed some things every decade afterwards. Keeping your style exactly the same forever is boring.
I even once told people complaining about Spock having a beard in Discovery that they probably have beards themselves. Making a wild guess. It makes sense. Why would he shave while he's in a cave or in a mental institute? He even grew his hair long in TMP while he was undergoing Kholinar. I'm fine with people changing their styles.
So, I am not one of those people.
I just don't like the direction SNW has taken things in. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less. I still love Discovery; I'm still looking forward to Starfleet Academy. My not liking this one series doesn't change any of that. And once I realized the series wasn't for me, I decided to just not watch. Mainly because I don't believe in hate-watching. I told people all through DSC and PIC not to hate-watch if they didn't like those shows, so I'm not going to hate-watch SNW now that the situation applies to me. I practice what I preach.
I don't like Enterprise either. There are going to be Star Trek series I don't like. There are what? 12 of them? It's bound to happen that I'll run into a few I don't like. Unlike some other people, I'm not going to throw up my hands and suddenly say, "All Star Trek after ___ SUCKS!!!!" That's not me. That's not who I am.
EDITED TO ADD: I just realized the above looks like venting. What's really getting to me is that I don't want people here to think I'm something I'm not, just because we disagree about some TV show.
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If Nimoy is anybody in a James Bond/Spock analogy, he's the Connery. The guy who originated & defined the role for generations and who all the subsequent actors will be compared to.
There were several actors who played Bond before Connery.
As far as EON stuff goes, Connery was the first, but there are a few others before.
Still, Nimoy as Connery works in terms of playing the role for too long, with diminishing returns accompanying each reappearance.
I guarantee you that Barry Nelson is nobody's favorite Bond. He's a footnote in the franchise at best.
I wouldn’t argue with that.
Still, technically Connery did not originate the character in the same way Nimoy did.
For one thing, I guess ‘M15 agent’ is a lot easier for an actor to get a grip on than literally the first Vulcan in fiction ever.
I digress.
Peck is neither a Lazenby, nor a Moore. :-)
If it’s Doctor Who:
Nimoy = Hartnell
Quinto = McGann
Peck = Tennant
IMO
All enjoy the latest can of worms!
Good thing he's not playing Leonard Nimoy, then.
Spock does need to explore his relationship with Pike and Una more, since that was what was expected with SNW in the first place. There’s nothing wrong with the soap opera romances Spock is having, since pre-TOS Spock is more human. But I did imagine his relationship with those two, including as a trio together, playing a formative role in becoming more Vulcan.
I think that Pike have a Horatio Hornblower moment (like his depiction in the Desperate Hours novel) in place of his optimistic dad persona in an episode would help a lot in fleshing out how Spock became Spock.
I think that Pike have a Horatio Hornblower moment (like his depiction in the Desperate Hours novel) in place of his optimistic dad persona in an episode would help a lot in fleshing out how Spock became Spock.
I said no but there is one reason for that. I don't like that he seems to be written as a "relationship magnet". First it was T'Pring, then it was Chapel (And I was fine with it because it seemed to grow organically), but I do not like this storyline with Spock and La'An. It just seems like it came out of nowhere and after a nice storyline with La'An and Kirk last season, I don't really understand this storyline this season. I compare it right now to Chakotay and Seven. I also want to like these characters as more than just love interests. I want to see a return of Discovery Spock, who seemed a little more logical, and a little more arrogant, at least towards Burnham. I also want to see La'An as more than just a love interest unless they finally made her come out of her shell and that's the end of her story. I found her an interesting character before this season but I don't like the direction they are taking.
I also want T'Pring to return because I like the character, but not as Spock's love interest.
I also want T'Pring to return because I like the character, but not as Spock's love interest.
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I think Spock's characterisation in more recent SNW episodes is a product of the modern writing idea that characters must be constantly seen to "develop" and "grow" and experience profound emotional shifts at all times, and that not having them do so is poor or immature writing.
Characters who behave consistently and have relatively static personalities and values - like, very broadly speaking, Nimoy's Spock - might be deemed flat or unrealistic nowadays, so Spock has to constantly experience some world-rending personal drama every other week, and be seen to react intensely to it.
Same for Ortegas going nuts lately, M'Benga's spec ops melodrama backstory and (formerly) ill daughter, La'an's Gorn PTSD and Kirk-related heartbreak, and so on. I'm guessing part of the appeal of the La'an/Spock pairing for the writers is that both characters are ostensibly calm and professional, so having them fall in love then break up gives you an easy way to write even more stories where they're weeping and screaming and having existential crises and what-not.
Characters who behave consistently and have relatively static personalities and values - like, very broadly speaking, Nimoy's Spock - might be deemed flat or unrealistic nowadays, so Spock has to constantly experience some world-rending personal drama every other week, and be seen to react intensely to it.
Same for Ortegas going nuts lately, M'Benga's spec ops melodrama backstory and (formerly) ill daughter, La'an's Gorn PTSD and Kirk-related heartbreak, and so on. I'm guessing part of the appeal of the La'an/Spock pairing for the writers is that both characters are ostensibly calm and professional, so having them fall in love then break up gives you an easy way to write even more stories where they're weeping and screaming and having existential crises and what-not.
Well, even Nimoy's Spock was always a babe magnet -- Chapel, Leyla Kalomi, Droxine, The Romulan Commander, Zarabeth. There were even obvious flirtations with Uhura at the very beginning. And I love the way they recontextualized Spock's relationship with Chapel. My issue is that the La'An thing seems to be coming right out of the blue (for both of them) and is maybe just a little too soon after Chapel. It just doesn't feel natural to the characters. I'm taking a wait and see attitude about the whole thing. Hopefully, they can surprise me.
Ar the rate SNW is going, there will some crisis or trauma to snap Spock into his TOS self.
His dad sends a stern letter.
