Episodes you love until.....

[JonnyQuest037]

The problem with TMP today is partly of context. In 1979 fans were really hungry for new live-action Star Trek after an absence of ten years. Showing off the refit Enterprise was a love letter to the ship. If you ever get the chance you have got to see that sequence in an IMAX cinema—the Enterprise looks thunderously huge! It is mindblowing! Not even the 1701D ever conveyed that sense of size even in the TNG films.

One thing that TMP does really, really well is give you a good idea of the relative scale of the ships. We see Kirk and Scotty step into a shuttle that's just big enough for the two of them, maybe roughly the size of a car. Then when we see that shuttle in comparison to the refit Enterprise, we really get a sense of the immense size of the ship & have its details drilled into our heads in preparation for the rest of the film. And then, once the Enterprise enters V'Ger in the second half of the movie, we can see how utterly dwarfed it is by V'Ger, where it's just a little speck within its maw. I have my problems with TMP, but that was just brilliantly done.

To be honest if we have to have a Mudd, then I prefer the original! Having another actor play such a significant role proves to me that the entire series is another reality!

So by that logic, "The Menagerie" must take place in a different reality than "The Cage", and The Search for Spock and The Voyage Home must take both place in a different reality than Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan because they recast the significant roles of Pike and Saavik with other actors.

While I’m not exactly Discovery’s number one fan, I thought Rainn Wilson did a nice job with the character.

"Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad" is far and away my favorite episode of DSC's first season. That was great.

Laurence Olivier was cast in Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow long after his death. And he took the job.

The afterlife ain't cheap, man.

To answer the original question, I like "Miri" at lot in the teaser and the early scenes of exploring the duplicate Earth. But as soon as we get into the disease and the stuff about the "Onlies" and the "Grups", my interest dips considerably. And I second the thoughts about "Spock's Brain", which starts out strongly enough but gets increasingly dumb as it goes on.

 

[johnnybear]

No, Pike was Jeffrey Hunter and it was many years after I first saw the episodes that I discovered that the infirm Pike was Sean Kenney plus there was a reasonable explanation for the difference in his looks! I'm surprised at you, Johnny! The Saavik thing is awkward yes, but I prefer Robin Curtis to Kirstie Alley anyway! Plus most of my grumps at DSC is the change in costume and style, technology and no one can replace Nimoy without a good explanation!
JB

 

[publiusr]

For me, it was “The Alternative Factor.”

Starfleet Command talks about a potential invasion from another universe.

Little kid me kept expecting a tear in space with something the size of a star destroyer coming through.

But no...we get a piss-ant flying saucer that Marvin the Martian would call a sub-compact—and some dude who fell more than Steve-O or Raab Himself.

That’s the letdown of all letdowns right there.

Now for an episode of Ridiculousness...

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I'm surprised at you, Johnny!

I'm surprised that you can't read closely enough to see that my screenname doesn't have an H in it.

no one can replace Nimoy without a good explanation!

Well, I hate to break it to you, but Leonard Nimoy isn't exactly available these days...

 

[Ssosmcin]

most of my grumps at DSC is the change in costume and style, technology and no one can replace Nimoy without a good explanation!
JB

Sooooo basically surface noise. I mean, you can't expect them to make a show with the same style and tech from 50 year ago. Pike's uniforms were a nice updating of the style, keeping the colors true to the original series; not the original pliot so much because - frankly - that was a rough draft of what they were going for and to hold them to that would be unfair.

The Enterprise we saw in DSC had a viewscreen and uniforms in the spirit of the original. Communicators and phasers were really nice updates but still felt like Wah Chang had a hand in it. In fact, if they had gone in this direction for The Motion Picture in 1979 and the 2009 movie, everyone probably would have been thrilled. But even Roddenberry knew the series had to be udated with the times. Can you see the production meetings these days? "Hey we have 7 million dollars to make the pilot of this series. Let's make it look like it was created in 1965 with crude insignia patches and colored sweatshirts." Oy.

Certain things I get: the spore drive was far to advanced to stick around. I think we all knew it would be "blah-blahed" out of continuity. Uniforms? Meh. They changed so damned often in the last 50 years, that's the least of my worries. I mean, why did every officer from Treks 2-6 wear the same band leader, three layered THICK uniforms? How is that practical? They would have been fine as a dress uniform, but nope, everyone had (I assume) underwear, and a long-sleeve turtleneck shirt under a heavy wool jacket. The a/c on the Enterprise must have been cranking. DSC, like Archer's Enterprise, has practical worker's uniforms. Nu-Pike's Epterprise has thicker jackets, but looks along the lines of the series. Kirk's went from velour to the 3rd season blend, then to the TMP varieties before going to the "hide the gut" waiter outfits. Picard's uniforms changed from the jumpsuits to the two pieces and then over the the movies. Uniforms on Star Trek were based on what looked good on screen, not any real continuity.

Expecting any evolving television or movie series based in the 23rd century to look like a 55 year old production without being a spoof or a fan film is just silly.

 

[johnnybear]

I know all that! But Star Trek Continues did a very good version of the series and kept the same look and updated the effects to be better than those done for the original series in 2007/08! Why point has always been why do a show set before or around the timeline of TOS? What does it prove? By making your show contradict the first show in the series is if nothing else silly! Now if you set your series after VOY no one can refute the premise! New Klingons, new Romulans, new enemies, new technology and new uniforms! Now that's what they're doing, having the ship thrust into the far future! will it be any better? I don't know but I wasn't enjoying it to be honest and of course I know that Leonard Nimoy is no longer available to be Spock but if you get a replacement get one that looks and acts like him for pity's sake!!!
JB

 

[Warped9]

Watching bits of TOS yesterday. Whoever follows is fucked—no one can replace Nimoy he was a master. He telegraphed so much with his eyes, face and nuances in his voice. Everyone who has tried to be Spock since just can’t do it.

Ditto for Shatner. He was a much better actor than most give him credit for.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Watching bits of TOS yesterday. Whoever follows is fucked—no one can replace Nimoy he was a master. He telegraphed so much with his eyes, face and nuances in his voice. Everyone who has tried to be Spock since just can’t do it.

Ditto for Shatner. He was a much better actor than most give him credit for.

The reason Star Trek endures, for me anyway, is because of the leads. If I didn’t find those guys as appealing as I do, it may have been just another afternoon return of my youth. But these people found just the right roles. Other actors can follow but they were the templates and they were identified with them forever after for a reason.

Shatner in particular always gave 1000%. He remains my favorite actor like ever.

 

[Ssosmcin]

I know all that! But Star Trek Continues did a very good version of the series and kept the same look and updated the effects to be better than those done for the original series in 2007/08! Why point has always been why do a show set before or around the timeline of TOS? What does it prove? By making your show contradict the first show in the series is if nothing else silly! Now if you set your series after VOY no one can refute the premise! New Klingons, new Romulans, new enemies, new technology and new uniforms! Now that's what they're doing, having the ship thrust into the far future! will it be any better? I don't know but I wasn't enjoying it to be honest and of course I know that Leonard Nimoy is no longer available to be Spock but if you get a replacement get one that looks and acts like him for pity's sake!!!
JB

I get what you're saying and everyone likes what they like. I agree in part. Going back to a previous era should be reserved for when you really have something you need to add or expand upon. Discovery, being about a totally different ship and crew with a technology far in advance of even 24th century tech didn't cry out for being pre-Kirk. They could have told those stories post Nemesis and made Bernham a relative of anyone from the other shows. On that level, sure, it didn't need to be a prequel. Even if it shows our first contact with the Klingons (something already done by Star Trek Enterprise), that could have been any knew race.

But if they have a really great story that fleshes out a part of Trek History, maybe the fan-popular Romulan War, or the first real mission of the Robert April Enterprise or whatever (not that I have a burning curosity here), then sure, go back and tell those stories. Prequels should have a need. Hey, I am totally fine with recasting Kirk and Spock, etc, as long as they're telling good stories which add to the lore. I was perfectly fine with Bad Robot Trek until I saw they didn't do anything but feed the character stereotypes (however, Beyond did a really good job with Kirk - finally). And while Enterprise probably didn't NEED to exist, I appreciated the return to the "astronauts exploring the unknown" after years of "hey, look, another Federation colony..." And as much as we like finally seeing Trek go forward, by the time Voyager ended, I personally was totally weary of the 24th century. Going back to Trek pre-history was an exciting idea. It just squandard a lot of potential and time for awhile.

 

[Warped9]

Watched “Balance Of Terror” yesterday. This is a 5-star effort where everything works. The writing is excellent and the performances all around are first rate. This is a fantastic brinksmanship story well told. The stakes are high and the tension is tangible. This is one of the very best combat stories—maybe the best—ever told in Trek.

Give me this kind of story over later massive ship battle going pew-pew all over the place and ladled with technobabble.

 

[johnnybear]

I think a lot of it is that viewership has changed. People today aren't interested in subtle story telling or exciting under duress stories,they want explosions and lightning shows to keep their interest!
JB

 

[Warped9]

Hard to gauge if thats all they’re given.

 

[Keith1701]

The Doomsday Machine

 

[johnnybear]

The Doomsday Machine

A fantastic fifty minutes of television!!!
JB

 

[Phaser Two]

A fantastic fifty minutes of television!!!
JB

Will never not be my favorite episode. I am *always* on the edge of my seat at the end. Every. Time.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Will never not be my favorite episode. I am *always* on the edge of my seat at the end. Every. Time.

100% agreed. I never get tired of this episode. It’s been my unwavering favorite episode since I was a kid.

 

[plynch]

No, Pike was Jeffrey Hunter and it was many years after I first saw the episodes that I discovered that the infirm Pike was Sean Kenney plus there was a reasonable explanation for the difference in his looks! I'm surprised at you, Johnny! The Saavik thing is awkward yes, but I prefer Robin Curtis to Kirstie Alley anyway! Plus most of my grumps at DSC is the change in costume and style, technology and no one can replace Nimoy without a good explanation!
JB

In all our years, I think this is only the second time I've disagreed with you (Curtis > Alley). (I like Plato's Stepkids, is the other one.)

 

[Dale Sams]

I don't think the tech looks stupid when they used it in the DS9 homage.

And NuBSG went *backwards* from BSGs tech and it didn't look stupid.

That said, I don't have a prob with how the tech looks in DISC and on Pike's Enterprise. Other than maybe lean more in the 60's direction.

Oh I do have a prob with starship design though...get a fan to work on that. And if you have fans doing it then fire them and get others cause their work is very unispired.

 

[PCz911]

Episodes I love until....

metamorphosis

James Cromwell ruined the character for me. He wasn’t Cochrane. That whole movie was ...er... bad. Most tng movies were bad (start firestorm in 3...2...1)

Cromwell lacked the charisma of Corbett.

 

[johnnybear]

Will never not be my favorite episode. I am *always* on the edge of my seat at the end. Every. Time.

Yeah, each time you watch this one you keep thinking how close Kirk is to dying at the end as the Constellation enters the Planet Killer's maw!!!!
JB