Episodes which truly demonstrated VOY's potential ?

[PKTrekGirl]

MeanJoePhaser said:
The Void deserves mention for the struggle to survive while holding onto ethics,

Ah yes! Forgot about that one! Agreed. That was another episode were they addressed the quest for survival while trying to hang on to Starfleet & Federation principles...not to mention a sense of basic humanity.


Yeah...there were a few episodes in there that addressed the original premise quite well....but wow! No doubt about it - the show could have been a whole lot more. When I see shows like Battlestar Galactica now...or even a show like Jericho which explores what human beings are capable of becoming (both good and bad) in some extraordinarily dire circumstances....it does make me sad.

There are alot of good episodes of VOY, once you get past the frustration over the almost completely abandoned premise. But when you come back once again to consideration of the original premise...you can't avoid that feeling of a massive wasted opportunity.

That original premise was kick-ass good. Frankly, I think the original premise of VOY was BETTER than either TNG's (which was to re-do TOS 80's style) or DS9's. But sadly....the execution of the show itself just didn't live up to the hope.

After seeing BSG, I DO often wonder what would have happened to VOY if Ron Moore had stayed. And frankly, you have to wonder if half the stuff that we have seen on BSG wasn't originally intended for VOY.

 

[Anwar]

It wouldn't have mattered if Moore had stayed, as long as the show was on UPN it would never live up to its potential since UPN had wanted a TNG clone and not something new.

The only reason nuBSG worked was because it wasn't the latest series in a major-cash-cow (don't want to risk anything new because it might not make money!), and because Sci-Fi network doesn't mess with its shows all that much.

If Piller and co had thought up the premise of VOY and pitched it as NOT a Trek show, then they'd have been able to do whatever they wanted.

 

[Smiley]

PKTrekGirl, I'm not arguing that VOY was originally intended to be the next TNG. It just ended up being that way by default in short order. Given that, I'm curious which episodes people think did a good job of telling a TNG-like story on VOY.

For me, "Before and After" and "One Small Step" are a couple of examples of episodes that are interesting, well-made, self-contained stories.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

^^ Well, I've never read from any reliable source that UPN was looking for a "TNG clone".

But assuming they were...then it seems to me that they wouldn't have approved the premise....or the pilot episode.

I mean, the premise (and pilot episode) of VOY does NOT scream 'TNG clone' - quite the opposite in fact. Between the Maquis, Bad Boy Tom Paris, the smart-ass EMH, etc....the story of VOY was slated to be anything BUT a TNG clone, where every crew member is johnny-on-the-spot and there is always complete agreement and happy family/good karma.

So if UPN wanted that from the beginning, then how did the pilot even get made?

 

[Smiley]

My guess would be cold feet. You're right that the "Caretaker" premise is not very compatible with standalone episodes, so someone or some people must have changed their minds about the viability of arcs in Trek.

Anyway, I'm not judging the series based on what anyone in production said or planned. I'm looking at it solely based on the episodes, and what we got was a ship with Federation ideals exploring the cosmos. Getting home, keeping the ship running, and getting along were rarely concerns during the run of the show.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Smiley said:
PKTrekGirl, I'm not arguing that VOY was originally intended to be the next TNG. It just ended up being that way by default in short order. Given that, I'm curious which episodes people think did a good job of telling a TNG-like story on VOY.

For me, "Before and After" and "One Small Step" are a couple of examples of episodes that are interesting, well-made, self-contained stories.

Okay...so then you are really asking "If you throw out the abandoned premise issue, what are some good episodes of VOY?"

Sort of off-topic to the thread title, which kinda implies consideration of the abandoned premise issue in any responses given....but okay....I can go with that!

I think VOY has alot of good episodes. My personal favorite is Deadlock...followed by Death Wish.

Both are rather TNG-esque....but very strong episodes.

I could name several others....but is that what you are driving at?

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Smiley said:
...and what we got was a ship with Federation ideals exploring the cosmos. Getting home, keeping the ship running, and getting along were rarely concerns during the run of the show.

Which is exactly my point: they SHOULD have been.

Not only because that would have been in keeping with the premise of the show...but because it would have been interesting!

VOY runs out of food and is faced with some sort of moral dilemma under which they have to sacrifice their principles and live...or stick by their principles and face starvation. What do they do?

VOY runs out of photon torpedoes and faces a violent attack by the Kazon. They can ally themselves with an equally distasteful race...or risk being destroyed. What do they do?

Discipline on VOY begins to break down as more and more crew memebers realize their dire circumstances. What does Janeway do?

The Maquis revolt and try to take command of the ship. How does Janeway win their confidence?

These are issues that not only would have involved the original premise of the show...but would have been darn interesting!

 

[Smiley]

^Indeed. The OP talked about a "grand sense of adventure" from TOS (and TNG by extension), and I was taking the thread title to mean simply the potential to be an awesome Trek or SF show.

 

[Blueicus]

VOY runs out of food and is faced with some sort of moral dilemma under which they have to sacrifice their principles and live...or stick by their principles and face starvation. What do they do?

There were quite a few episodes addressing the issue of a faster way home vs. keeping to their morals. Including the episode Prime Factors. The Void also looked at that.

VOY runs out of photon torpedoes and faces a violent attack by the Kazon. They can ally themselves with an equally distasteful race...or risk being destroyed. What do they do?

The episode Alliances

Discipline on VOY begins to break down as more and more crew memebers realize their dire circumstances. What does Janeway do?

State of Flux, Learning Curve

The Maquis revolt and try to take command of the ship. How does Janeway win their confidence?

Only about a quarter of the crew was Maquis, they would've been put down and would not have had the numbers to run the ship. Also mentioned in the episode Worst Case Scenario (admittedly a holo program) but also hinted throughout season 1.

Now, we can say that these episodes weren't executed well or that they were saved by poor writing, but we cannot say they weren't addressed. Also many of the episodes that didn't center on a resolution to one of the aforementioned crises still involved situations where they were obtaining supplies, fuel, etc. They were looking for deuterium and dilithium and alternate energy sources quite often. Three of four episodes dealing with each facet per season would've been overkill, IMO. Besides, 3/4 of the crew was still Starfleet, most of us still had expectations that they'd act at least a little professional... the Ransom crew overdid it (perhaps they just drew the short straw or were simply people of lesser morals).

 

[Kurgan]

To be honest after viewing the entire run of Voyager again on Spike, i've come to enjoy and appreciate(most of the run)ALOT more than i used to during it's original 7 year stint.I particularly think Tim Russ did an outstanding job portraying Tuvok.

 

[Computer]

Like many others I would have liked to have seen a more dar and grittier show.

We already know what humans surrounded by the comforts and power of the mighty Federation are like but what are humans like in the Trekverse when they are completely separated from their civilization?

PKTrekGirl raises some very good questions that would have made for great stories.

Maybe even reduce the crew at some point to begging for food in exchange for what little material they can spare.

A Starship ready to fly apart at the plates that rarely functions as it was designed to.

Despite all the suffering could they retain their humanity?

I also expected the Delta Quadrant to look a bit more exotic, considering weve seen some exotic places in Alpha id expect there to be some things in the DQ that are equally impressive visually.
One scene I really liked that captured my "vision" of what more of the DQ should have looked like was when Q's son steals the Delta Flyer with Echeb and they go to that alien looking system where they are fired on by what turns out to be Q. Anyone have a picture of what im talking about?

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Blueicus said:

VOY runs out of food and is faced with some sort of moral dilemma under which they have to sacrifice their principles and live...or stick by their principles and face starvation. What do they do?

There were quite a few episodes addressing the issue of a faster way home vs. keeping to their morals. Including the episode Prime Factors. The Void also looked at that.

VOY runs out of photon torpedoes and faces a violent attack by the Kazon. They can ally themselves with an equally distasteful race...or risk being destroyed. What do they do?

The episode Alliances

Discipline on VOY begins to break down as more and more crew memebers realize their dire circumstances. What does Janeway do?

State of Flux, Learning Curve

The Maquis revolt and try to take command of the ship. How does Janeway win their confidence?

Only about a quarter of the crew was Maquis, they would've been put down and would not have had the numbers to run the ship. Also mentioned in the episode Worst Case Scenario (admittedly a holo program) but also hinted throughout season 1.

Now, we can say that these episodes weren't executed well or that they were saved by poor writing, but we cannot say they weren't addressed.

Well, the weenieness with which they were (theoretically) addressed, frankly, makes it all the worse. They had the idea, but then woosied out in favor of ending each episode with both the ship and the crew looking as if they were out for a Sunday drive and would be home in time to feed the dog?

I don't even count those episodes as illustrating anything LIKE what I'm talking about.

Watch Battlestar Galactica - THAT is what I am talking about.

The above episodes aren't even in the ballpark.

The only episodes that I consider to be in the ballpark are Equinox, Year of Hell (pre-reset button), and The Void.

In fact, they could have gotten about half a season's mileage out of the Equinox crew alone! I mean, lord knows they were better enemies than the Kazon! Let's see Starfleet battling Starfleet for survival! Strain those principles as far as they can GO....bend 'em till they nearly BREAK! Not just give them a little pop like you are playing with a rubber band.

 

[Anwar]

Like I told you, they were told no arcs or continuing stories. No lasting damage either because it would cost more money to redress the sets all the time and to make ever-changing CGI models of Voyager (back in 1995 it was more expensive than now).

Braga's plan WAS to make Year of Hell a real year.

 

[Candlelight]

doubleohfive said:

Year of Hell said:
Parallels was good for the 'conflict between the two crews' storyline, but this was really the last time it touched on it.

"Parallels" was the one where Worf encountered like 20 gazillion Enterprises. You're thinking of "Deadlock"

No, we're both wrong - I'm thinking of Parallax. The story of Federation Vs Maquis, not the two Voyager's crews.

 

[Angel4576]

Watched Parallax earlier tonight. The primary story itself was nothing special, but the sub-plot involving the integration of the Maquis crewmembers into the existing Voyager command structure was emminently more interesting to watch. They should have expanded the tone of this episode a lot more across subsequent episodes. Moreso than they did anyway.

 

[Anwar]

Probably Piller trying his best to circumvent the UPN mandates of a happy crew to the best of his power: make it a subplot instead of upfront and hope no one realized what he was doing.

 

[Lookingglassman]

The Year in Hell part 1 and 2

 

[patlandness]

"Death Wish" and "Living Witness" are two of my favorite episodes of *any* series proved that Voyager could have been a show to match TOS-TNG-DS9 in excellence.

Those 2 episodes are SKILLFULLY TOLD WELL which are actually ABOUT SOMETHING rather than spatial anomolies and Borg attacks.

 

[mattwitz]

"Work Force" parts 1 &2
"Flashback"
"Equinox" parts 1 &2
"Worst Case Scenario"

 

[Harvey]

Well, the Hirogen mini-arc in season four is quite good (Message in a Bottle to The Killing Game, Part Two).

And the Year of Hell is a wonderful example of what could have been.