Off with ya head!I definitely have to go with City on the Edge of Forever. I find it a good and interesting story, but for me it wasn't the best of Star Trek.
I'm also not a huge fan of Amok Time.
Episodes that are considered "good" that you actually dislike
- Thread starter uniderth
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Hi guys
I really don't enjoy Tapestry. Stewart turns in his usual good performance, but it just doesn't do much to keep me into it, which is a rare complaint from me. Frankly, the only thing that keeps my interest is DeLancie showing up for laughs. The rest of the cast are 2nd rate imho.
I'm also kind of finding Picard's philosophy of "die as the man I was, rather than suffer the ignominy of living as pretty much 90% of my crew" increasingly jarring & insulting, as the years go on.
I'm also not too fond of Yesterday's Enterprise. Don't get me wrong. The PREMISE is fantastic, but the majority of the episode is left to Denise Crosby & Christopher McDonald to fill, & I think they're just terrible. When they're around, it's like watching a routine episode of General Hospital, and while Whoopi is good, & having Guinan & Picard factoring into the script did help, they're combined effect was to taint the timeline & eventually give us Sela
To sum up. The idea of the C coming into the D's time, & having to go back to set things right, is terrific. The idea of trying to create an alternate end story for Tasha was about one of the weakest things the show ever refused to let go of imho
I'm also kind of finding Picard's philosophy of "die as the man I was, rather than suffer the ignominy of living as pretty much 90% of my crew" increasingly jarring & insulting, as the years go on.
I'm also not too fond of Yesterday's Enterprise. Don't get me wrong. The PREMISE is fantastic, but the majority of the episode is left to Denise Crosby & Christopher McDonald to fill, & I think they're just terrible. When they're around, it's like watching a routine episode of General Hospital, and while Whoopi is good, & having Guinan & Picard factoring into the script did help, they're combined effect was to taint the timeline & eventually give us Sela
To sum up. The idea of the C coming into the D's time, & having to go back to set things right, is terrific. The idea of trying to create an alternate end story for Tasha was about one of the weakest things the show ever refused to let go of imho
I like Tapestry, but I have a hard time believing that one event changes your life Irrevocably. You mean to tell me that because Picard was stabbed in the heart, that's why he's captain? I want to think that multiple life experiences can lead to success and one event doesn't define you.
To be fair though, he didn't just redirect himself to avoid that one event, he was altering all kinds of things based on a wholly different outlook for living. Still, I pretty much agree with you too. It stretches believability. Then again, we can't even really be sure this just isn't Q screwing with him. I mean he literally ends up on the Enterprise with the same people aboard, in their same posts, when we know he personally picked Riker & Geordi, & maybe even Data, or Worf. That right there is enough to make me think it's all a Q game
TNG: Measure of a Man
I don't actually dislike this episode -a real classic!- , but there's also a very heavy-handed feel to it, with all those ponderous dialogs going back and forth. Probably could have done with a slightly lighter touch, and still keep all philosophical stuff in.
Added to that that at this point in Data's career, it would be way, way too late for this discussion; this would/should have been settled at his Academy entrance at the very latest. I actually feel it's kind of indecent of Starfleet to allow Maddox' request to reach the Enterprise in the first place after all this time.
I don't actually dislike this episode -a real classic!- , but there's also a very heavy-handed feel to it, with all those ponderous dialogs going back and forth. Probably could have done with a slightly lighter touch, and still keep all philosophical stuff in.
Added to that that at this point in Data's career, it would be way, way too late for this discussion; this would/should have been settled at his Academy entrance at the very latest. I actually feel it's kind of indecent of Starfleet to allow Maddox' request to reach the Enterprise in the first place after all this time.
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I hate DS9's The Visitor, HATE IT!
It's a pointless reset button story, they recast Jake while everyone else gets old people make up (that's pretty much a slap in the face for Cirroc Lofton), Sisko's behavior makes zero sense, for him everything happens in an hour or something, he should be panicking or be concerned because he has barely any time to process anything instead he looks at his son who has become an old man.
The entire episode is an inconsequential waste of time.
It's a pointless reset button story, they recast Jake while everyone else gets old people make up (that's pretty much a slap in the face for Cirroc Lofton), Sisko's behavior makes zero sense, for him everything happens in an hour or something, he should be panicking or be concerned because he has barely any time to process anything instead he looks at his son who has become an old man.
The entire episode is an inconsequential waste of time.
Sorry, I AM THE gOD APOLLO!!
I had a thought about that recently. A factor to take into account is that Data's true origin as the creation of Noonien Soong had just come to light the previous year. It hadn't been specified onscreen, but I believe the offscreen story was that prior to that, he was believed to have been left by aliens, possibly as restitution for the destruction of the colony where he was found. So Starfleet's default stance on him prior to "Datalore" may have been to treat him as an unknown, and potentially a representative of an alien species. It was only after "Datalore," in which he was revealed to have been created by a human scientist, that the question of whether he could be treated as mere property came up.
I too am less impressed with Tapestry as time goes by. While the premise is a delightful nod to It's A Wonderful Life, the whole episode centers on hot headed cadets and a futuristic game of pool. I find it silly that starfleet academy graduates would place that much significance on such game. It's great that a near death experience made Picard the man he was but realistically, in most situations where someone gets in a barfight over a silly game, the end result is not a big improvement in their life.
That doesn't make sense because they had Brent Spiner playing Dr. Soong which means he created Data in his image, so Starfleet found an android who looked like Soong and didn't notice? Even if they didn't know Soong lived on Omicron Theta there would have been an investigation and Soong wasn't some unknown random person, there were records of him, he had worked on the positronic brain. All starfleet had to do was scan Data and then ask the computer for a list of people who could have build him and they'd get a picture of Soong.
Basically a scene like this:
Science officer: Computer, create a list of federation cyberneticists who work or worked on highly advanced androids, how many are there?
Computer: There are 839 federation cyberneticists who work on creating advanced androids or have done so in the past.
SO: Remove all that are confirmed to be deceased for 5 years or longer, now many do we have now?
C: 177
SO: How many worked on artificial brain structures similar to the one we habe in this android?
C: 14
SO: Did anyone of them live on Omicron Theta?
C: No
SO: The whereabouts of how many are unknown?
C: 3
SO: Show pictures of all three of them!
C: *beep*
SO: There's our creator! *points at picture of Brent Spiner with a goofy grin and a shiny future vest*
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The TNG crew seem surprised though, when in Datalore Data mentions their visit dredges up a vague memory to "a dr. Soong" when visiting the lab where he was created. So it seems no-one made that connection earlier.
After which follows a bit of backstory about dr. Soong, how he failed in his first attempt to build a positronic brain and such.
probably because at that point it hadn't been decided that Spiner would play Soong but in retrospect it makes little sense.
But this dialog is problematic because both Riker and Laforge immediately know who Soong is, he really was famous and it's unlikely Data wouldn't have been recognized as looking like Soong at some point.
^I agree with you on most points, (such as that it would be implausible for Starfleet not to know), yet this is what the on-screen material says, so I'd have to take that as a given, even though the real reason is that not all details of his backstory were firmly established at that point ...
I can't think of many that I flat out disliked. Some of the more overrated ones might be Tapestry and Measure of a Man. Some TOS episodes like Trouble with Tribbles and City on the Edge would be in that group as well, I guess (though with CotEoF it's more just because it's so highly praised, I still think it's very good). Twilight on ENT was another, though I did warm up to a bit over the years. Still not as good as similar episode types.
Relics is another overrated Ron Moore penned episode from season 6. It was nice to see Scotty and the old bridge again but I don't get much pleasure in the episode as a whole. If this episode had been produced a few seasons earlier, say when Ron Jones was still composing music for the series, The Dyson Sphere jeopardy might have been more exciting.
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Add me to the chorus of folks who find "The Inner Light" and "I, Borg" not very good at all. "The Inner Light" is pretty dull and ponderous, and Patrick Stewart's son can't act.
"I, Borg" I hated from the moment I first saw it. I get that they were going for a story about dehumanizing your enemies, but it just comes off as stupid when your enemy is literally inhuman and Space Nazis Squared. I thought that Guinan was 100% right in that episode and the debate about the morality of wiping out the Borg was utterly absurd. HELL YES you wipe the Borg out! They create nothing and absorb or destroy everything in their path. The universe would absolutely be better off without them. My college roommate and I called that one "the Pet Borg episode" ever since we first watched it.
Honestly, most of TNG doesn't hold up very well for me, outside of a few classic episodes like "Measure of a Man," "Best of Both Worlds," "Yesterday's Enterprise," and "Sarek."
"I, Borg" I hated from the moment I first saw it. I get that they were going for a story about dehumanizing your enemies, but it just comes off as stupid when your enemy is literally inhuman and Space Nazis Squared. I thought that Guinan was 100% right in that episode and the debate about the morality of wiping out the Borg was utterly absurd. HELL YES you wipe the Borg out! They create nothing and absorb or destroy everything in their path. The universe would absolutely be better off without them. My college roommate and I called that one "the Pet Borg episode" ever since we first watched it.
Honestly, most of TNG doesn't hold up very well for me, outside of a few classic episodes like "Measure of a Man," "Best of Both Worlds," "Yesterday's Enterprise," and "Sarek."
Starfleet has been dominated by (stupid) mad, human Admirals since its inception, excluding Admiral Forrest.
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